Can anyone give me a list of all the civ personalities? I have some idea of most of them, im just wondering which civs prefer warmongering and which ones prefer building? Or is it more a case of that any civ will go to war with you if there furious with you, regardless if there a builder?
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Originally posted by frostycreep
Or is it more a case of that any civ will go to war with you if there furious with you, regardless if there a builder?
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Thats pretty much what i expected, that any civ will go to war with you if there stronger. I just wasnt sure because theres a random civ personalities option when you custom a game. If theres an option to change there personalitys, then they must all be different. I reckon theres a couple of civs who will go to war with you for no reason, regardless of strength.
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There's even differences between the war mongers. Monty and Isabelle both have much larger negatives for religion than do most other civs (-4). I think saladin does as well.
While Monty will predictably declare war on you, my experience is that Isabelle is somewhat "slyer" about it, waiting till she thinks she has a good chance of winning (Monty usually charges in regardless of whether or not he has a prayer). Gehngis usually will go to war pretty easily too, but then again, he's *Ghengis Khan*
Catherine, in my experience is a total backstabber. She'll go from friendly to angry at the drop of a hat (in my last game, just after someone else had declared war on me, something that can't possibly be a coincidence). Other people have said in other posts that Alexander is a backstabber too, though I have no memories of that in my games.
Tokugawa will almost *never* trade techs with anyone, and even getting open borders is a chore. I've found the Incans pretty reluctant to tech trade as well. For that matter, Isabelle rarely trades, but that may only be because we're almost always opposing religions rather than some intrinsic reluctance to trade.
On the subject of religion, some AI's feel this compulsive need to found a religion. Isabelle, Monty and Saladin all fall into that category, it seems. So if founding a religion is part of your strategy, they'll almost never go for your religion, meaning that in practical terms, they're all enemies waiting to declare.
Mansu, Ghandi, and Hatsheput seem to play a "builder" strategy. When I'm in a tight space race, it's usually with them, if I remember correctly. Any of them can declare war on me with enough negatives and a weak military, but they seem a little more reluctant.
On a random note, I seem to recall either Victoria or Liz have a particularly high negative for trading with enemies. Or something like that. I saw a "-4" for a "diplomatic" reason. I may have the reason slightly off.
Of course, now that the source code is out, it's only a matter of time before someone can tell you *exactly* what makes the personalities different.
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We didn't have to wait for the SDK to get at the details of the civ personalities, it's been there in the XML all along. CIV4LeaderHeadInfo has dozens of personality variables listed, like relations thresholds for various kinds of deals and treaties, probability to trade techs, respect for warmongers, importance attached to peace, and how long it takes for that leader to forget various diplomatic negatives. Here's a small example from Alexander's leaderhead file (with the < and > replaced with parentheses).
(iDemandRebukedSneakProb)40(/iDemandRebukedSneakProb) (iDemandRebukedWarProb)25(/iDemandRebukedWarProb) (iRazeCityProb)25(/iRazeCityProb) (iBuildUnitProb)35(/iBuildUnitProb) (iBaseAttackOddsChange)4(/iBaseAttackOddsChange) (iAttackOddsChangeRand)8(/iAttackOddsChangeRand) (iWorseRankDifferenceAttitudeChange)-2(/iWorseRankDifferenceAttitudeChange) (iBetterRankDifferenceAttitudeChange)0(/iBetterRankDifferenceAttitudeChange) (iCloseBordersAttitudeChange)-4(/iCloseBordersAttitudeChange) (iLostWarAttitudeChange)-1(/iLostWarAttitudeChange) (iAtWarAttitudeDivisor)-5(/iAtWarAttitudeDivisor) (iAtWarAttitudeChangeLimit)5(/iAtWarAttitudeChangeLimit) (iAtPeaceAttitudeDivisor)60(/iAtPeaceAttitudeDivisor) (iAtPeaceAttitudeChangeLimit)1(/iAtPeaceAttitudeChangeLimit) (iSameReligionAttitudeChange)1(/iSameReligionAttitudeChange) (iSameReligionAttitudeDivisor)10(/iSameReligionAttitudeDivisor) (iSameReligionAttitudeChangeLimit)4(/iSameReligionAttitudeChangeLimit)
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Originally posted by Ari
Mansu, Ghandi, and Hatsheput seem to play a "builder" strategy. When I'm in a tight space race, it's usually with them, if I remember correctly. Any of them can declare war on me with enough negatives and a weak military, but they seem a little more reluctant.
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A friend pointed out that you can stop trading with Gandhi and he NEVER holds that against you. So if someone asks you to stop trading with him, do it, because there's no trade-off."The human race would have perished long ago if its preservation had depended only on the reasoning of its members." - Rousseau
"Vorwärts immer, rückwärts nimmer!" - Erich Honecker
"If one has good arms, one will always have good friends." - Machiavelli
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I've seen Isabella go -7 for religion
If you are on pleased terms with Huyana Capac then he'll trade techs usaually.
Every civilization will go to -4 for trading with enemy (except for maybe Gandhi)
Cyrus is also a builder
Ceaser, atleast for me (I guess not for others) is a major backstabber, I've been in a war with him when relations were pleased. I hate Ceaser!
Some new things:
Gandhi almost never has spare money more then 20 gold
Peter will ask you for tons of stuff for free, though he usaually won't declare war if you don't give it to him
When Gandhi asks for something from you and you don't give it to him, there's no diplomatic penelty.
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Originally posted by CarnalCanaan
A friend pointed out that you can stop trading with Gandhi and he NEVER holds that against you. So if someone asks you to stop trading with him, do it, because there's no trade-off.THEY!!111 OMG WTF LOL LET DA NOMADS AND TEH S3D3NTARY PEOPLA BOTH MAEK BITER AXP3REINCES
AND TEH GRAAT SINS OF THERE [DOCTRINAL] INOVATIONS BQU3ATH3D SMAL
AND!!1!11!!! LOL JUST IN CAES A DISPUTANT CALS U 2 DISPUT3 ABOUT THEYRE CLAMES
DO NOT THAN DISPUT3 ON THEM 3XCAPT BY WAY OF AN 3XTARNAL DISPUTA!!!!11!! WTF
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I was already talking about this in that other thread but Monty is like that. - FACT!Jon Miller: MikeH speaks the truth
Jon Miller: MikeH is a shockingly revolting dolt and a masturbatory urine-reeking sideshow freak whose word is as valuable as an aging cow paddy.
We've got both kinds
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Originally posted by frostycreep
Who do you think is the most aggresive civ? I used to think it was the Zulu in civ 3, they were constantly declaring war on me. They were so annoying i used to change my stratgedy to warmonger if they started next to me. I dont feel this way about any civs in civ 4 yet
There are a few interesting war starting variables I've noticed - there's a series of lines that determine what an enemies military size has to be in relation to the AIs for them to declare war, under different circumstances. One AI may only want to declare wars on civs that have militaries 90% the size of their own or smaller, while some are willing to take on civs much larger. This also varies depending on whether the other civ is nearby or not, a leader might be willing to declare war on a larger enemy that's next door, but will only attack civs that are much smaller if they are far away, while others don't care as much about distance.
Another interesting difference between the AIs are their 'Flavors' - all leaders have at least one 'Flavor', like Growth, Science, Military, etc. These seem to correspond to what appears next to the two recomended buildings that come up when the player gets to choose what a city builds next, so I'm guessing an AI with the Growth flavor is going to pick that choice when it comes up.
To encourage others to look into this file and dig up more info on the differences between the civs, I'm going to post the flavors and some war variables for several of the leaders. They're right in Civ4LeaderHeadInfo.xml, in WinXP right-click on the file, choose 'Open With', and use Notepad or Wordpad, otherwise it will open in your default browser and be unintelligible.
Alexander
Flavors: Military (5), Science (2)
Favorite Civic: Hereditary Rule
DogpileWarRand: 50
WarmongerRespect: 2
iMaxWarNearbyPowerRatio: 90
iMaxWarDistantPowerRatio: 70
iLimitedWarPowerRatio: 130
iNoWarProb for Pleased: 80
iNoWarProb for Cautious: 20
Gandhi
Flavors: Culture (10)
Favorite Civic: Universal Suffrage
DogpileWarRand: 100
WarmongerRespect: 0
iMaxWarNearbyPowerRatio: 100
iMaxWarDistantPowerRatio: 60
iLimitedWarPowerRatio: 80
iNoWarProb for Pleased: 100
iNoWarProb for Cautious: 70
iNoWarProb for Annoyed: 20
Montezuma
Flavors: Military (5), Gold (2)
Favorite Civic: Police State
DogpileWarRand: 25
WarmongerRespect: 2
iMaxWarNearbyPowerRatio: 130
iMaxWarDistantPowerRatio: 80
iLimitedWarPowerRatio: 130
iNoWarProb for Pleased: 80
iNoWarProb for Cautious: 30
Catherine
Flavors: Science (5), Culture (2)
Favorite Civic: Hereditary Rule
DogpileWarRand: 25
WarmongerRespect: 2
iMaxWarNearbyPowerRatio: 90
iMaxWarDistantPowerRatio: 40
iLimitedWarPowerRatio: 110
iNoWarProb for Pleased: 80
iNoWarProb for Cautious: 20
As you can see, there's some good reasons right there in the code for why Montezuma is such a dumbass. I think he's the only leader who will attack when the defender has a military 130% the size of his.
If anyone has any requests for other leaders, as long as there aren't too many, I can look them up too. If there's some other kind of variable you'd like me to try and find, let me know.
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Here's some more info I meant to include in the prior examples, the UnitAIWeightModifiers and ImprovementWeightModifiers. The ImprovementWeightModifiers are one I'm really interested in as they seem like they could be used to customize worker AI.
I'll list these for the same leaders I did in my last post, as they are a pretty good mix of types.
Alexander
UnitAIWeightModifiers: UNITAI_ATTACK (100)
ImprovementWeightModifiers: None
Gandhi
UnitAIWeightModifiers: UNITAI_WORKER (100)
ImprovementWeightModifiers: IMPROVEMENT_TOWN (20)
Montezuma
UnitAIWeightModifiers: UNITAI_ATTACK (100)
ImprovementWeightModifiers: None
Catherine
UnitAIWeightModifiers: UNITAI_COUNTER (100)
ImprovementWeightModifiers: None
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