ZOOM 2, long live the Zoom

[akulla]

Looking for a game, seems everyone I get into die hideous deaths. Anyway, if your interested please post.

[Dauphin]

Yeah, I'm in.

[SebP]

i will play if we can get a 4th player. else, i dunno

[Grandpa Troll]

im cool..let me know what the deal is and if we get to chose a civ

Im about as irregular as they get

[akulla]

Sounds good
Current players:

Akulla
Dauphin
SebP
Grandpa Troll

Let me know your preferred Civ, and if you have anyother preferences. And we shall get this going.

[SebP]

well... i didn't really like the classical start from zoom1... may still have been a good idea though but somehow... i don't like how it is handled. all those techs that would take 100 turns, but on the unitside, only a single worker worth 15 turns of production... +the random religions...

but maybe i just need to be convinced, no doubt you guys have started a few pbems and can explain just what is wrong with ancient starts

other than that, no prefs. except for normal speed. i guess

as for civ, random - for now

[akulla]

I had planned on starting at the ancient era, and HAK set it up at classical. I am planning on ancient, the problem with starting in classical is some civ's UU's are basically useless.

So Ancient start it is.

[Dauphin]

Ancient is good.

I'll try my hand at Victoria/English this time around.

[SebP]

change of plans. no random, i'll play romans

[Ghorticus]

I've been looking for a game, and would love to join if you guys need another player. This would be my first Civ 4 PBEM game but I feel I'm up to the challenge.

If possible I'd like to play as Mongols/Genghis Khan.

[Grandpa Troll]

Catherine of Mother Russia

shes soooo

HOTTTT

[MrsTroll]

Originally posted by Grandpa Troll
Catherine of Mother Russia

shes soooo

HOTTTT

Yeah yeah yeah.......I am now Catherine The Great.......my avitar......I am Jo Mama.......tighten up now.

[Dauphin]

We ready to start?

We have 5. Any AIs for the slaughter?

[Grandpa Troll]

no ai

rock on..just me voting mind you

[Ghorticus]

My vote is for no AI.

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by Dauphin
We ready to start?

We have 5. Any AIs for the slaughter?

I sure hope so

[SebP]

i don't really care

[akulla]

Have had some emergancy stuff going on this weekend, will try to get set up tonite. Also, I believe everyone is in North America, if not let me know so I can order apropriately.

[SebP]

Sadly not. I'm in Germany, and i think Dauphin is in England. We should still be able to play 1 turn a day

[Dauphin]

Its easily sorted if I play after SebP.

Chase the sunset!

[akulla]

Akulla = Georgie boy
Grandpa Troll = catherine
Ghorticus - gengis
SebP = julius
Dauphin - victoria

Here is the set up as I see it, also no AI, standard map, Prince difficulty, barbs??

[SebP]

"Standard" meaning continents, standard size? No objections. I guess normal barb activity on a sparsely civilized map is fun.

Ghorticus, my email-adress is:
das DOT letzte DOT theorem AT gmx DOT de

btw, isn't there a culture of leaving all player passwords with some trusted person, so games don't die? i know that in SMAC there was. and what about rules, like the ones discussed in the demogame forum? i am no big friend of exploits like fake war for training units and the like, but to lazy to make/vote for rules. just hope everyone is with me there and won't do such evil things. you know, stuff that the game mechanics technically allow but that are just totally odd

[Dauphin]

There are SOP's (standard operating practice) developed from Civ2 and Civ3, so if anyone breaks a fairness rule (like trading on techs without pre-agreement from those whom they got them from) we just let them know about the SOP on the issue.

I don't know if they are codified anywhere for Civ4. I know they were for Civ3.

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by Dauphin
There are SOP's (standard operating practice) developed from Civ2 and Civ3, so if anyone breaks a fairness rule (like trading on techs without pre-agreement from those whom they got them from) we just let them know about the SOP on the issue.

I don't know if they are codified anywhere for Civ4. I know they were for Civ3.

I been playing CIV III and CIV IV now for over 2 years and this is the first time I ever heard of that..ever



Guess its a matter of how you look at it

If I give someone a tech in trade should they be allowed to benifit from it and attack me at a later time?

[SebP]

i couldn't find those SOPs anywhere. your example is one of diplomatic fairness which every offended player is free to deal with as he pleases, like declaring war or not trading with the offender anymore. these additional diplomatic options are what should make a pbem interesting


i was more referring to exploits, which we might all want to ban. my example being going to a fake war to train both sides real units above 10 xp on cheap units.
another example of what i'd find to be an exploit is communicating via email before having made contact ingame. btw, that being the case, maybe pangaea would be better than continents we don't want to end up on private continents do we. it would suck even (more?) if it happened only to one of us. it would certainly suck if it happened to me...
there's also definite cheats that stem from bugs (there was a discussion about a way to find an unknown city in the fog of war somewhere) but i guess these don't really have to be discussed. also, they seem to be few in this game.

it might sometimes be hard to draw a line between fairness violations and exploits since both are allowed by the game mechanics, but i think common sense will give all of us a similar idea of what is what. so, i am too lazy to make rules but just checking on what the climate about those exploits will be in the game. because, if one does such things, we all have to and i'd rather not. also, without making sure beofrehand, one of us might do it in fear of the others doing so...
there may exist a culture about these things on apolyton and if so surely dauphin, grandpa troll and akulla will know enough about it, but me and ghorticus are new, so i'm just checking back

btw. it might well be that my "exploit" examples are not really gamebreakers. in retrospect i particularly doubt the effectiveness of the fake wars thing.

[SebP]

also, my observations above lead me to a new vote on the map. i suggest and vote for pangea or terra for the added diplomacy without the chance of lonely starts. just my vote, though. also, i'd prefer any other kind of map that rules out this chance in a similar matter (archipels with lots of coastal connections) over one that doesn't

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by SebP
i couldn't find those SOPs anywhere. your example is one of diplomatic fairness which every offended player is free to deal with as he pleases, like declaring war or not trading with the offender anymore. these additional diplomatic options are what should make a pbem interesting

I only mentioned that one as it is the last example that I can think of where a turn was replayed due to 'violation'.

With all things there are no rules, only observed practice. If you want to play a particular way then you are free to do so, but short of detailing every rule its easier just to say 'usual rules apply'.


The SOP 'rulebook' that I recall was in an inter-site democracy game of Civ3 where many rules and so forth were set-out, including definition of exploits and 'features'. Did not stop the game going sour when unknown exploits were used because, well, they were previously unknown.

[akulla]

hmmm, well pangea is okay by me, anything else.

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by akulla
hmmm, well pangea is okay by me, anything else.

Start the game?

[Dauphin]

Good suggestion.