Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Siege weapon promotions

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Siege weapon promotions

    Could someone explain the benefits/drawbacks to various seige weapon promotions. I see alot of people refer to city attack promoted siege units but it seems to me like this is a waste so I'm wondering what I'm missing. To me it seems like the collateral damage promotion is the most valuable, or if your production resources are really limited - withdrawls (flanking I think it is?). My thinking behind this is siege weapons have 2 purposes, the first being to remove a cities defenses and the second being to take out stacks of units as is common in cities. With the main objective of these units being to do as much damage as possible wouldn't additional collateral damage give you more effective damage per unit than city attack?

  • #2
    City Raider will result in more damage to the toughest unit in the stack.
    Collatoral Damage will result in more damage to the units other than the toughest.

    That's all you really need to know. As a rule of thumb use Collatoral until the city-rader promoted siege weapons actually have a good chance of winning (say 35%+).

    Note that Catapults have no (defensive) counters, unlike Swordmen (axemen) and Horsemen (spearmen), making them pretty good at city siege despite their lower strength. Cannons simply rock, a Raider3 cannon will destroy anything in the era. Artillery can be good too if you get them quickly enoungh.

    Comment


    • #3
      I guess I do it wrong, then. I use mostly City Raider cats, and hit with them first.

      I love cannons. City Raider II/III cannons are great. I typically ignore Artillery.

      -Arrian
      grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

      The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

      Comment


      • #4
        I almost always choose city raider for artillery, mainly because artillery are hitting cities 90% of the time, and because making the odds better in your initial battle increases the chances that your siege engine will survive to fight another day. If a siege weapon lives long enough to reach level five, then I will start adding collateral damage bonuses, or combat I.

        If it was possible to add flanking/withdraw chance improvements to siege weapons, I would do that, but that does not seem to be an available promotion for them.
        "Cunnilingus and Psychiatry have brought us to this..."

        Tony Soprano

        Comment


        • #5
          Barrage for Catapults. Even with City Raider or City Raider II, cats aren't too likely to win vs. a well-fortified city defender. So use Barrage to inflict as much damage as you can on the other units.

          City Raider for Cannons. Cannons have a good attack, and with City Raider II they stand a very good chance of actually taking out defenders in contemporary cities.
          Solver, WePlayCiv Co-Administrator
          Contact: solver-at-weplayciv-dot-com
          I can kill you whenever I please... but not today. - The Cigarette Smoking Man

          Comment


          • #6
            There are situations where seige weapons are your best city attackers, City Raider is the best promotion, and collateral damage is just a nice side effect.

            If you don't have iron, Catapults are better attackers than anything else available until Macemen. A Catapult with City Raider II is stronger than a Horse Archer with Combat II, and it doesn't have to worry about Spearmen.

            If you aren't facing Riflemen yet, Cannons are better city attackers than either Grenadiers or Riflemen, though Cavalry is about on par until Cannons get City Raider III. Once the enemy gets Rifles, Grenadiers are better attackers than either one.

            Most of the time, Artillery doesn't make sense because you can get Assembly line just as quickly, which gives you Infantry and factories. Once you have Assembly line, it's almost as fast to get Tanks as Artillery. Tanks can take Collateral Damage if you want it and City Raider, and they're so much stronger than Artillery that you might as well build Cannons if you want to knock down city walls.

            Theoretically, you could get Artillery much earlier than Infantry. Avoiding the Nationalism line would save you some time, particularly if you have the Pyramids for Representation. Of course everyone needs to research Democracy sooner or later, or you're hosed by unhappiness over Emancipation.

            I've never done it that way, though. Among other things, getting Scientific Method early kills the Great Library and the research bonuses from Monastaries. I've become quite fond of Monastaries recently for larger cities. You need a lot of research (at least 20 base) to make them worthwhile, but they're really cheap.

            - Gus

            Comment


            • #7
              Most of the time, Artillery doesn't make sense because you can get Assembly line just as quickly, which gives you Infantry and factories. Once you have Assembly line, it's almost as fast to get Tanks as Artillery. Tanks can take Collateral Damage if you want it and City Raider, and they're so much stronger than Artillery that you might as well build Cannons if you want to knock down city walls.
              That's generally what I do. Cannons, Infantry & Tanks

              -Arrian
              grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

              The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

              Comment


              • #8
                I'd take City Raider on all the siege units (even the cats), and here's why:

                Catapults are a support unit. They come pretty late in the ancient age, and by the time I get them, I've already been conquering with axes, horse archers, and swords (ie., I already have CR 2 & 3 units, who don't really NEED catapult help), so I don't build many anyways (3-4 in most cases), BUT...the ones I build, I'll be upgrading to cannons later, so what I like to do is haul them along with my slow movers and cherry pick their fights to get them up to CR 2's....then, when I upgrade them to cannons later.....

                -=Vel=-
                The list of published books grows. If you're curious to see what sort of stories I weave out, head to Amazon.com and do an author search for "Christopher Hartpence." Help support Candle'Bre, a game created by gamers FOR gamers. All proceeds from my published works go directly to the project.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I find catapults are more 'throw away units', they come in late and never really have a good chance at winning against dug-in defenders (unless you pick and choose good battles only) - so i generally pick baragge as the promotion of choice except in certian circumstances. If perhaps a couple survive and make it to a higher level I start giving them CR in hopes that they never die...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I've found artillery to be pretty useless against just about any unit or unit in a city (outside destoying city defenses, which they excel at).

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Shr3dZ
                      I find catapults are more 'throw away units', they come in late and never really have a good chance at winning against dug-in defenders
                      If I'm up against longbows, I just never attack with the Catapults. I build just enough to knock down +100% defense in one turn, and then stop. Unless I encounter City Defender II's (rare) or a hilltop city, I take so few casualties with my Swordsmen or Macemen that throwing away catapults doesn't seem worthwhile.

                      - Gus

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Besides, most of the time I find that I care most about beating up on that "best defender." That garrison II longbow is a bastard, but once I'm past him, my Raider I/II macemen can take care of the rest.

                        -Arrian
                        grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                        The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by gus_smedstad

                          Theoretically, you could get Artillery much earlier than Infantry. Avoiding the Nationalism line would save you some time, particularly if you have the Pyramids for Representation. Of course everyone needs to research Democracy sooner or later, or you're hosed by unhappiness over Emancipation.

                          I've never done it that way, though. Among other things, getting Scientific Method early kills the Great Library and the research bonuses from Monastaries. I've become quite fond of Monastaries recently for larger cities. You need a lot of research (at least 20 base) to make them worthwhile, but they're really cheap.

                          - Gus

                          I just lost to an AI who was using this method...I had infantry and he didn't yet, but his stacks of artilary and cavelry just crushed me anyway. 3-4 infantry defending a city don't do you much good once he's reduced them all to 4 HP each...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by gus_smedstad


                            If I'm up against longbows, I just never attack with the Catapults. I build just enough to knock down +100% defense in one turn, and then stop. Unless I encounter City Defender II's (rare) or a hilltop city, I take so few casualties with my Swordsmen or Macemen that throwing away catapults doesn't seem worthwhile.

                            - Gus
                            Well it depends if your best unit can get thru his best defender, if its gonna take a sacraficial axemen/swordsmen to weaken him, then why not use a sacraficial catapult? At least that way you hurt a lot of units all at the same time.

                            Still, I wouldnt mind trying it your way, its not like I enjoy throwing away units, but catapults seem easy/quick to build - plus, if I dont have a city with a barracks that I want to be building a military unit, Ill make him create a catapult, even with 0XP they do a lot of dmg to a whole bunch of units at once (only once).

                            I usually do check the odds when attacking my best at his best, and usually theyre not good, so I send in my weakest catapults to soften up the defenders~

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I guess it's no real surprise that I do things a little different.

                              I actually prefer the combat line of upgrades for all my artillery units. I find it certainly seems to bring my chances up a % or 2 when compaired to the City Raider line.

                              So, I typically have a couple designed to tear down defenses, a bunch with combat line, and then my units.
                              One who has a surplus of the unorthodox shall attain surpassing victories. - Sun Pin
                              You're wierd. - Krill

                              An UnOrthOdOx Hobby

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X