Is there any innovation in gaming?

Verto · January 22, 2006, 12:17

I used to be a big Xbox fan, and I'm still playing it (hoping to eventually beat KOTOR2 and Ninja Gaiden, after a 6 month hiatus), and had been anticipating the Xbox 360.

But what's so special about these next-gen consoles, really? All the hype surrounds the "realistic graphics" that are OMGWTF so lifelike. So what? Graphics can help a story's immersiveness, it can't replace it. Why would I want to fork out 400 bucks to play sequels and clones to games I already own?

There's no innovative new game designs, no new concepts introduced. The biggest innovation made in the console world was the introduction of Xbox Live, and MS' efforts to open up consoles to user mods, something PC gamers have enjoyed for years. Sony has....well, Sony has been coasting on the Playstation name recognition for far too long.

Which leaves Nintendo. Maybe it's nostalgia, who knows, but I think Nintendo is the last best hope for the gaming world. And if the Revolution does suck, and all these rumors about Nintendo's strategy of thinking in totally different directions and trying new things flatlines, I'll still be content with my SNES and Final Fantasy III.

/end babble

Verto · January 22, 2006, 12:19

I didn't bother to mention PC gaming much, because we all know PC games consist of Xbox games + PS2 games + RTS.

and card games.

Adagio · January 22, 2006, 12:29

Innovation in gaming, and then you mention xbox

All the good games are released for PC, consoles are only for people who want "OMGWTF AWSOME GRAPHICS"

Sandman · January 22, 2006, 12:34

The handheld scene is supposed to be fairly innovative at the moment, mostly thanks to the DS. You could try that.

Felch · January 22, 2006, 12:43

Originally posted by Adagio
All the good games are released for PC, consoles are only for people who want "OMGWTF AWSOME GRAPHICS"

Graphics for PC games are generally better than for consoles, partly because graphics cards are constantly being released, and partly because monitors have HD resolution.

Nintendo is way more innovative than Microsoft, Sony, or just about any PC developer. The DS and the Revolution will be the places to go for unique gaming experiences.

Verto · January 22, 2006, 13:31

Originally posted by Adagio
Innovation in gaming, and then you mention xbox

All the good games are released for PC, consoles are only for people who want "OMGWTF AWSOME GRAPHICS"

I said Xbox' only innovation was creating Xbox Live.

And what games are released on PC, that are significantly different from a console? Civilization is the only game that comes to mind.

The handheld scene is supposed to be fairly innovative at the moment, mostly thanks to the DS. You could try that.

Yeah, I've been thinking of picking up a DS, GBA or GameCube, since they are cheap, and seem to offer more options for "party" games, as well as Zelda etc.

DrSpike · January 22, 2006, 13:43

Don't know about consoles, but there is innovation of a kind still with PC gaming. Ok, you can't invent FPS or anything, but games like Guild Wars have really moved their genre forward.

Adagio · January 22, 2006, 13:46

Originally posted by Verto
And what games are released on PC, that are significantly different from a console? Civilization is the only game that comes to mind.

I would more ask the another way around... what games to consoles are better than those for PC?

Originally posted by Felch
Graphics for PC games are generally better than for consoles, partly because graphics cards are constantly being released, and partly because monitors have HD resolution.

That's correct, but most people who buy consoles doesn't know that

Verto · January 22, 2006, 13:51

Originally posted by Adagio

I would more ask the another way around... what games to consoles are better than those for PC?

My original statement was that, consoles and PCs both feature identical games, with the exception of a few things, like TBS/RTS.

But I'd say a lot of FPS/shooters are more fun on the console, since you aren't having to use a keyboard and mouse..but that is a matter of preference.

Standup · January 22, 2006, 14:23

Having recently bought a PSP i've been disappointed by the lack of innovation. Most of the games are just boughts of PS2 games. I know it's a new piece of hardware but at the moment i'm having the most fun playing Ridge Racer (again). Other big games are things like GTA3 again not very original.

I think Ninetendo are pretty good are innovation but they're the smallest player. The DS looks more much interesting than the PSP but i had reasons other than gaming for going Sony sadly.

Sava · January 22, 2006, 15:41

Originally posted by Verto

But I'd say a lot of FPS/shooters are more fun on the console, since you aren't having to use a keyboard and mouse..but that is a matter of preference.

keyboard + mouse is completely superior to a stupid gamepad for FPS games... FACT!

there is no comparison...

I can't believe you just made that statement... well... actually... yes I can

Sava · January 22, 2006, 15:52

Most innovation to games, recently, has been graphics, physics, and sound... because the upgrade to hardware has allowed game developers to really make games the way they've envisioned making games. I know people like to say, oh gameplay is the most important thing... and generally it is... but you can't negate everything else. Gameplay by itself is fine... but combined with graphics, physics, sound, and everything else is what makes an awesome game.

There's only so much you can do with gameplay. Most innovation in the future is going to occur with graphics, sound, physics, AI, environments, etc. And I am looking forward to that.

Obviously, what makes a game great is how fun it is. But beyond that, what sets games apart are the other things. I'm a big fan of first person shooters. And one of my wishes for FPS games is that I would like to see realistic environment interaction... i.e. the rounds/bullets from the guns hitting objects, walls, doors, and stuff and actually causing damage. Not just causing things to fly around, but actual damage. And I'd like to see realistic bullet physics, too. I'm talking about actual ballistics data applied to game engines. I want a 7.62mm round from an AK47 to behave like a real life 7.62mm round. And when it hits a crate or something, I want it to change direction, or go through it, or do something unpredictable... like in real life. And I think that is the kind of innovation that would take FPS gaming to the next level.

However, I think that kind of thing would be extremely difficult to program and would require a lot of processing power. But it's something that I think we might see in the coming years.

DrSpike · January 22, 2006, 15:57

Originally posted by Sava

keyboard + mouse is completely superior to a stupid gamepad for FPS games... FACT!

there is no comparison...

I can't believe you just made that statement... well... actually... yes I can

I agree with Sava.

Adagio · January 22, 2006, 16:13

I too agree with Sava, for fps games keyboard and mouse is best

Hell, for any type of game keyboard and mouse is superior to gamepads (with very few exceptions, like fighting games)

Maquiladora · January 22, 2006, 18:26

The most likely place for innovation will always be the PC, because its always at the top-end of hardware, and top-end software requires the top-end hardware, and im not just talking about graphics and the next FPS.

Thats not to say consoles dont innovate because they clearly have and will continue to here and there, like action-adventure and probably sports-action.

You cant rely on old companies like Sega and Nintendo to innovate, if history has taught us anything, its that newcomers are always the biggest innovators.

Sandman · January 22, 2006, 18:37

Nintendo and Sega innovate more than Sony and Microsoft...

Maquiladora · January 22, 2006, 19:42

Thats an unprovable statement, and pointless to argue over. All push out the boundaries in different areas.

Anyway my point about innovative was good innovation, im talking about Half-Life, Civ, Command & Conquer, Sim City. Not half-baked ideas, that while original, arent successful.

MORON · January 22, 2006, 22:13

Greatest innovation ever is DOTA

I'm petty sure most good ideas start small, and by the time they give picked up and is big, it isn't all that new anymore....

lord of the mark · January 22, 2006, 22:50

What time frame are you talking about Verto - the last year? If so my hardware prevents me from addressing things directly, and besides, I think the important innovations in games (as in most things) are only clear in retrospect.

Innovation in PC games over the last SEVERAL years -
1. Paradox - using RT to do realistic historical strategy, games of a kind not seen before
2. TW series - RT and TB uniquely integrated, IIUC. With this progressing as the series went on
3. The Sims - love it or hate it, different from what came before, and a huge seller.
4. Children of the Nile - from what ive heard, significantly different from previous citybuilders.

Im sure fans of other genres could come up with some other things.

Broader innovations - the rise of MMOG's. The rise of digital downloads. The growth in free downloadable games like Bejeweled. The rise of cell phone games.

These may not be the traditional games we play, but theyre growing categories.

I mean it sounds like youre asking, where is the innovation in the same old platforms and genres - inevitably you'll find only piecemeal improvements there.

lord of the mark · January 22, 2006, 22:54

Originally posted by Verto

My original statement was that, consoles and PCs both feature identical games, with the exception of a few things, like TBS/RTS.

well to ME its like this

Consoles only Sports games, misc action games - thats 2 genres
Consoles and PCs both - RPGs, FPS - 2 genres
largely PCs only - TBS. RTS. War historical games. City builders. Misc sims (the Sims, Flight sims, etc)
thats 5 genres

Of course as that genre list shows, I have a pretty warped view of the games market, which doesnt match too well with sales figures

Imran Siddiqui · January 22, 2006, 23:42

Well, we'll have greater innovation due to hardware increasing what we can do with games. Its made games have more realistic physics and effects. It's allowed for games like Grand Theft Auto, where you can have an entire city to just explore, with plenty of stuff to do outside of the main quest. That was particularly innovative (you were playing in a living, breathing city)

:) Smiley · January 23, 2006, 01:01

Graphics, physics, AI, sound, etc aren't innovations, they are improvements.

Innovations include multiplayer, modding, forum games, tournaments, and open source. These change not just gameplay but the player's relationship with the game.

The next big one will be connecting directly to the physical world. Already, there are games where game currency can be exchanged for real currency, a first step in that direction.

DrSpike · January 23, 2006, 14:05

Originally posted by

Smiley
Graphics, physics, AI, sound, etc aren't innovations, they are improvements.

Graphical innovations are innovations, just graphical ones rather than gameplay ones.

And the improved physics in modern games is clearly an innovation, one that increases the sphere of what can be achieved in games.

Urban Ranger · February 1, 2006, 01:50

Originally posted by lord of the mark
2. TW series - RT and TB uniquely integrated, IIUC. With this progressing as the series went on

I have only limited exposure to the Total War series. My impression is there is no real "turn based" component. It is just a thin layer to chain the "real time" battles together.

Urban Ranger · February 1, 2006, 01:52

Originally posted by DrSpike
Graphical innovations are innovations, just graphical ones rather than gameplay ones.

It is an innovation only if it breaks new ground. Better shading, more polygons, faster rendering speeds don't count.

Sprite with collision detection was an innovation.

DrSpike · February 1, 2006, 03:51

And new games will likely have things in that are not just more polygons. One might call them innovations.

Alex · February 1, 2006, 06:29

How innovative are games nowadays? Just look at AOE III and you'll realize how innovation is dead.

DrSpike · February 1, 2006, 06:44

Yes, one game does indeed prove that all games are not innovative.

Apocalypse · February 1, 2006, 06:54

What is more disturbing is that good ideas (like ones in the Fallout series) are being forgotten.

Sandman · February 1, 2006, 08:47

An easy way to force innovation is to simply use more interesting settings. A lot of Fallout's charm came from its post-apocalyptic theme.

Killing fantasy generi-kingdoms and space 'marines' for a single year could lead to all sorts of new gaming worlds.