Marathon mode is excellent

[Yaga]

How are y'all liking Marathon with Warlords? I've a few such games under my belt and have been finding a number of new challenges w/ the sprawling, mini-world-wars that can spring up in the late middle ages, early renaissance.

Thoughts?

[Civaddict78]

Originally posted by swat-spas2
AIs don't preserve units or attack nearly as intelligently as the human player does. You having more and more units to make mistakes with does little to challenge you.

As a newbie here I am staggared by the depth and level some guys take to this game, not in a negative way, and I realise that with only about 10 games behind me in the 10 months I've had it that I may not be too experienced yetlast night- got wiped out as a small english colony on epic speed, noble level- but when I looked at all my results, my 5 best wins, all by domination, had occured on marathon speed. In fact my only domination victories occurred on this speed.

I think marathon speed gives you more time to plan for the long game and human intelligence will win out in the end. having just started playing epic i find it harder tobuild up the required strength in depth to go-a-conquering and while I get ahead in technlogy, my armies become outdated fast.

It is however, as the poster I've quoted says, a better challenge with less time!

[crusader10k]

to yaga,
sounds about right. u got east and western roman empire mixed up. eastern roman empire, or the byzantine empire fell in 1453 to the ottoman turks, western rome fell to the visigoths (Aleric??).

marathon sounds good, i'll give it a try though i may just incrase the tech time, ill have to see which is best.

[Entropic]

Though 90+% of games I play are Huge Map Marathon games, I think Marathon gives the Human an unfair advantage in Standard Size maps and smaller (though I don't really see as much fun in playing a 6AI standard size map... but that's just me) because it leverages the Human advantage in warring. I think even Large maps aren't that adequate for Marathon speed (Human advantage still too big).

[crusader10k]

sorry yaga, i totally didnt check if there was more than page one, dont know what i was thinking.

anyway Entropic, i agree with u. my first two games marathon were kinda easy. on my third i added raging barbarians and i actually ended up behind in tech and eco. maybe i was just playing poorly. still, i agree marathon makes wars against ai easy. still fun tho

[Doc555]

Marathon mode is excellent. Now what is needed is a Tolstoy mode.

Tolstoy mode would be Marathon mode during war time and Quick mode during peace time. Also it would drop in to war mode when more than one Civ approached a goal (Circumnavigation, Wonder, Religion, ect...) Also there would be a modified speed during peace time so that you could commit a sneak attack with out having your units obsolete by the time you attacked (or were attacked.)

[Chicagophil]

I wish there was a mode that was slower than Marathon.

[uberloz]

Originally posted by Chicagophil
I wish there was a mode that was slower than Marathon.

I agree!

It would be nice if there was an option to just pick one era and stay with that era the whole game.

Maybe have one turn equal one week or one month instead of multiple years?

Obviously you would have to have 'Space Race' disabled for the earlier era's, but all the other victory conditions could still apply.

[snoopy369]

You can of course create a longer marathon mode easily via the xml file GameSpeedInfo. Just mirror the changes from Epic to Marathon ...

To stay in one era is harder, I did something that kept you in the Medieval era once you got there; mostly you disable the techs and then set the speed options such that research takes longer. You could play a medieval only game starting in the medieval era by giving all medieval techs (or just advanced starting, either old-style or BtS Advanced Start), and then make teching take a REALLY long time (some mods do this, like Genghis Khan). Say 100 turns a tech or more even when well built up. (That way techs are valued).

You certainly can do per month, and I think per week but i'm not as sure about that.

[Peter Triggs]

Originally posted by uberloz

It would be nice if there was an option to just pick one era and stay with that era the whole game.

Maybe have one turn equal one week or one month instead of multiple years?

Check this thread:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...hreadid=166104

It answers your first suggestion (but not the second).

[Zenn-La]

Originally posted by iamsomeguy
This mode is interesting, but is not what I want.

Everything scales. I ended up stacking multiple workers so they get their work done quicker, and I *still* run through technologies and have obsolete units before I have a chance to not only build them but even use them.

This really isn't anything other than just a scaled longer version of the normal speed game.

what it *should* be is this:

extremely long time to research techs

everything else normal

that way you can build an ancient city, have warrior and archer armies, and each tech is a HUGE deal.

Anyone know how to make the game do this?

That would be ideal.

[Verrucosus]

This used to be easy in Civ2 and Alpha Centauri. There was a simple modifier in the rules.txt / alpha.txt files that allowed you to speed up or slow down research while leaving everything else the way it is. My guess would be that the Base_Research_Rate value in the GlobalDefines.xml (see under Assets\Xml) file performs that function for Civ4. I am not certain whether you can simply change that value or whether other changes are necessary for your plan to work. Depending on how much you want to slow things down, you would also have to find a way to increase the number of turns (... or be content not to get to the modern era before 2050). The experts in the creation sub-forum should be able to offer more help. If you try this, please come back to tell us how it works.

[Jaybe]

The file you want to work with is CIV4GameSpeedInfo.xml.
It is in the Assets/XML/GameInfo folder.

[Blaupanzer]

When I find that file, what do I do besides back it up first? (Don't you just hate folks who know enough to get in trouble, but come crying to you to get them out?) Tried some mods but things got very weird in terms of the calendar and turns remaining information. Suspect I changed some things in potentially contradictive ways. Most frustrating! (No, I don't have a save. I replaced the modded file with the backup and blew away the game. THEN I remembered that the save might have been of some use to sombody. Ah well.)

[Jaybe]

BlauP, first thing I (supposedly) do when I am going to change an xml is copy the original into the corresponding folder of my CustomAssets, then work from that copy. If you are going to be changing GameSpeed, you can wager that the calendar is going to be different. But otherwise, report back with (1) what your intentions were, and (2) what did you change, including from/to.

May I come crying to you when I make some doozies on my PC (without my being charged an arm and a leg)? I DO know enough of Windows to get myself into trouble, but that's about it.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Blaupanzer
When I find that file, what do I do besides back it up first? (Don't you just hate folks who know enough to get in trouble, but come crying to you to get them out?) Tried some mods but things got very weird in terms of the calendar and turns remaining information. Suspect I changed some things in potentially contradictive ways. Most frustrating! (No, I don't have a save. I replaced the modded file with the backup and blew away the game. THEN I remembered that the save might have been of some use to sombody. Ah well.)

				<GameSpeedInfo>
			<Type>GAMESPEED_EPIC</Type>
			<Description>TXT_KEY_GAMESPEED_EPIC</Description>
			<Help>TXT_KEY_GAMESPEED_EPIC_HELP</Help>
			<iGrowthPercent>150</iGrowthPercent>
			<iTrainPercent>150</iTrainPercent>
			<iConstructPercent>150</iConstructPercent>
			<iCreatePercent>150</iCreatePercent>
			<iResearchPercent>150</iResearchPercent>
			<iBuildPercent>150</iBuildPercent>
			<iImprovementPercent>150</iImprovementPercent>
			<iGreatPeoplePercent>150</iGreatPeoplePercent>
			<iCulturePercent>150</iCulturePercent>
			<iAnarchyPercent>150</iAnarchyPercent>
			<iBarbPercent>150</iBarbPercent>
			<iFeatureProductionPercent>150</iFeatureProductionPercent>
			<iUnitDiscoverPercent>150</iUnitDiscoverPercent>
			<iUnitHurryPercent>150</iUnitHurryPercent>
			<iUnitTradePercent>150</iUnitTradePercent>
			<iUnitGreatWorkPercent>150</iUnitGreatWorkPercent>
			<iGoldenAgePercent>125</iGoldenAgePercent>
			<iHurryPercent>66</iHurryPercent>
			<iHurryConscriptAngerPercent>150</iHurryConscriptAngerPercent>
			<iInflationPercent>30</iInflationPercent>
			<iInflationOffset>-160</iInflationOffset>
			<iVictoryDelayPercent>150</iVictoryDelayPercent>
			<GameTurnInfos>
				<GameTurnInfo>
					<iMonthIncrement>300</iMonthIncrement>
					<iTurnsPerIncrement>140</iTurnsPerIncrement>
				</GameTurnInfo>
				<GameTurnInfo>
					<iMonthIncrement>180</iMonthIncrement>
					<iTurnsPerIncrement>90</iTurnsPerIncrement>
				</GameTurnInfo>
				<GameTurnInfo>
					<iMonthIncrement>120</iMonthIncrement>
					<iTurnsPerIncrement>40</iTurnsPerIncrement>
				</GameTurnInfo>
				<GameTurnInfo>
					<iMonthIncrement>60</iMonthIncrement>
					<iTurnsPerIncrement>90</iTurnsPerIncrement>
				</GameTurnInfo>
				<GameTurnInfo>
					<iMonthIncrement>24</iMonthIncrement>
					<iTurnsPerIncrement>70</iTurnsPerIncrement>
				</GameTurnInfo>
				<GameTurnInfo>
					<iMonthIncrement>12</iMonthIncrement>
					<iTurnsPerIncrement>100</iTurnsPerIncrement>
				</GameTurnInfo>
				<GameTurnInfo>
					<iMonthIncrement>6</iMonthIncrement>
					<iTurnsPerIncrement>220</iTurnsPerIncrement>
				</GameTurnInfo>
			</GameTurnInfos>
		</GameSpeedInfo>

That's a paste of Epic, from a gamespeedinfo.xml that I had in upload (marathon was changed drastically, and I don't remember how, i'm at work so I can't get the original one). Basically, change the numbers here to do whatever you want to accomplish.

For example, change iReasearchPercent from 150 (or 300 default in Marathon) to a bigger number; that makes it harder to research. 1200, for example, would make it take 4x as long to research as the normal 300.

You'd probably also want to lengthen the total game (so you could actually finish the tech tree, eventually); you do that by increasing the iTurnsPerIncrement in the various month lengths. Those work like this (in the above example):
iMonthIncrement: 300
iTurnsPerIncrement: 140

means 140 turns of 300 months per turn (ie, 25 years per turn). So, for the first 140 turns of the game, it goes 25 years at a time; this goes 4000BC -> 3975 -> 3950 -> ... -> 500BC.
Then it changes to the next set:
iMonthIncrement: 180
iTurnsPerIncrement: 90
So at 500BC, it starts going at 15 years/turn, for 90 turns. 500BC -> 485BC -> 470BC -> ... -> AD 850.
Etcetera. When increasing iTurnsPerIncrement, if you are one to care about the actual year number, you have to monkey with both numbers (iMonthIncrement as well) to keep them logical. I put them in an Excel spreadsheet, and have it calculate the actual years.

In order to actually increase Tech speed but keep unit/etc. the same, you still will want to monkey with other settings, if you make the game longer. Off the top of my head, I imagine you'd want to increase growth percent so you grow slower (but not by the 4x of tech, rather by the amount you lengthen the game or less); and probably Great People as well.

If I were you, i'd actually start with Epic, and then modify it for slower research up to the Marathon length, and also modify the turns/etc. to Marathon length. In other words, your unit construction and such are the same as Epic (so, more units, more ability to use older units) and slower research percent. Then, play a game or two and see how it plays. You'll notice the other elements you want to change back to Marathon levels (such as Great People, possibly); just copy in the Marathon values. Leave the ones you think are right alone. That probably gives you a better game, without making it TOO long (i'm sure even you marathon players want to finish a game every six months at least, right?).

[Blaupanzer]

Jaybe, crying, yes -- but remember most advice is worth less than what you pay for it. As to what I did, etc., I think I will just try again and report on that. In my memory, the timeframe got out of hand but the details are unclear. I determined the test didn't work -- did not go about this scientifically.

[snoopy369]

http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?...athon-Epic.zip

That's something like what I described above - marathon turns and research percent, otherwise more like Epic (so, faster unit production than Marathon). It should play something like a Marathon game with units being useful for longer.

I adjusted the Hurry length to the Marathon level, since that's really a turn-based element, but otherwise left things alone.

I also have my original Longer Eras:

http://apolyton.net/upload/view/51359_LongerEras.zip

That does something similar, but from a starting point of Marathon. It is probably more evenly balanced.

Both can be set up as a mod. Longer Eras is probably already properly set up folder-structure-wise, while Marathon-Epic would probably need some work to get to work as a mod in terms of creating the folder for it to go in.

[Blaupanzer]

Can we use those files with BTS?

[brandonjm8]

oops

[Ming]

I really can't help you on your connection problems with game spy. Are you playing vanilla civ IV or are you playing the latest expansion pack, BTS (Beyond the Sword). Almost all the online players are playing the BTS version with the latest patch. To play online, you must have the same version as everybody else.

If you provide more information, one of the more techy people might be able to help you.

If you are playing BTS with the latest official patch, you might want to try a direct IP game instead of Game Spy. Start a thread looking to start a game, or check out the IP game thread in the MP forum from Rah. We play most Friday and Saturday nights, and new comers are more than welcome.

[brandonjm8]

no expansions packs for me, i just bought the civ 4 game a few months ago. havent picked up any expansions yet but plan on it maybe, i looked at best buy a few weeks ago and didnt see any exp packs there, who knows. i got just the original game with the 1.74 patch for it. i was still playing civ 2 for the ps1 just six months ago, lol. hmmm, that sux that i cant play anybody til i get bts version, thanks for your help if that is the problem.

[brandonjm8]

ok i cant play online, im not sure why i got some ideas but hopefully somebody here can help. first off i just have the original civ 4 with the 1.74 patch, i have no expansion packs yet as i just bought the game a few months ago, i grew up playing civ1 on the snes and civ2 for the ps1. now ive been told nobody plays the original version anymore and thats why i cant play online with anybody because we must be running the same version etc. but its hard to think im the only guy with the original version that wants to play online you hear me. another thing is that everytime i goto the lan games options the manual says the lobby list should load up automatically, but nothing shows up even when i click the refresh list button. afterwards ill try and start a new game in the lan games multiplayer menu but then it says: cannot find socket cannot begin messaging system, im thinking its not recognizing my internet connection but i can check for updates so that can be the case im missing something i suspect. also, when i goto the play internet games option just below the lan games option it prompts you to login to gamespy right, well im registered with both xfire and gamespy but when i goto login to play online the game wont let me, i input my info then click on login then the game freezes for a half a second and nothing happens, it does not go to the next screen. PLEASE SOMEBODY TELL ME WTF IS GOING ON, I WOULD LIKE TO PLAY ONLINE, THE COMPUTER(AI) SUCKS, I NEED AND WANT TO PLAY REAL PEOPLE HAVE A CHALLENGE YOU KNOW. if there is anybody that just plays the origianl version then please let me know, that way i know that i can play other people and that its not just because im behind on the expansion packs. any and all help is appreciated, thanks brandon.

[briantomhson]

Very nice post with a ton of informative information. I really appreciate the fact that you approach these topics from a stand point of knowledge and information
instead of the typical “I think” mentality that you see so much on the internet these days.

[rah]

And the link to the ad is where?

[Blaupanzer]

Another bot with no address? Pretty strange spelling of last name.

[rah]

To avoid duplication with a possible real name perhaps.