Marathon mode is excellent

[Blake]

I might have to try a Marathon Huge Highlands with Raging Barbs.

I know from Epic experienec that it's utterly impossible to use "sentinels" in the early game, there's simply no chance in hell of an exposed unit surviving. Only units stacked 3 deep in cities on hills can stay alive. Eventually the heavy attacks subside and you can then push back the fog, using axemen or horse archers to kill the barbs that come in anyway. Also depending on the peak/lake layout it's sometimes possible to completely seal off entire fronts with a string of fortified units, barbs will tend to path around such blockades rather than trying to bash through them, even if the defenses are rather thin. This does result in a funneling effect though that results in massive attacks on the gaps - over a dozen barbs at once I've seen. But I had longbows by then, and guerilla longbows rip barbs a new one.

[Blake]

Hmmm raging barbs on Marathon Highlands are even worse than I expected. Got wiped out in 2240 by barb Archers, I research Animal Husbandary then immediately to Archery, and still didn't have an archer out.
My primary mistake was in training a worker (period), it had barely finished an improvement when the barbs came in and pillaged it. So for Marathon Raging, no workers, just expansion by building cities on plains hills and resources. Rivers are obviously going to be a godsend.

[Blake]

ROFL now this is quite a few barbs. Especially consdering that I my position is very strong. I had the incredible luck of the hill I happened to found on contain Copper.


This game I'd beelined STRAIGHT to Archery (but china doesn't start with hunting), I'd trained my 2nd Archer when 2 barb archers arrived and simultaneously attacked, a 2xArcher attack will easily destroy any player relying on a single warrior, and may wipe out 2 warriors.

This game is in the bag, but it's going to be entertaining. I have 2 axemen and I have to micro them to protect both the city and the woodchoppers. There's no way I'll be making any improvement so workers are strictly woodchoppers.

[Enigma_Nova]

At least you know the AI is suffering the same.

[Blake]

One thing for sure, barb spawn rate is INDEPENDENT of game speed. If barbs spawned at a rate proportional to that which civs build units, then on Quick there would be streams of stacks of 6 barbs, like take the above screenshot and multiply every barb by 6, that's how many quick would have if the spawn rate was proportional.

As it is on Marathon the barb problems are MUCH greater than on faster speeds, as in you have to deal with twice as many barbs, or deal with the same number of barbs but with half the defensive units, whichever way you please to look at it.

Hopefully if Firaxis does "fix" this, they'll add triple-raging barbs for people like me.

[Stageon]

I have yet to try marathon speed, but I'm curious: Do you end up with much more heavily promoted troops as a consequence? I would expect so with all the extra fighting.

I love promotions - it allows more tactical decisions-making, especially since the other tactical possibilities of the combat system are, shall we say, a bit on the simplistic side.

Another thought...maybe the limit on experience you can receive from barbs should be raised, so you don't end up fighting the raging hordes for "nothing"?

[Blake]

Yes, you get higher promotions.

Another simply huge effect is that units heal a lot "faster" on Marathon, in a given era a unit can reheal and fight many, many more times. For this reason it pays more to take care of your units.

Something about fighting the raging hordes: Each combat is very, very skewed in the players favor. My combats are often 99%+, as such each battle usually only gives 1exp. Even with huge swarms of barbs they still give meaningful exp, it's just a matter of giving the 10exp units some R&R time, you obviously need all your units in the city when the big waves hit, but the trickles are great for promoting up the green units. Something else is the sheer number of units you need, each city needs a minimum of 3 units (the Garrison). Each woodchopping pack needs 2 guardians, each improvement worked needs a unit or two fortified on top. 6 units per city is almost a bare minimum. By the time I have 3 cities I'll have 20 units, it takes hundreds of babs to promote them all to 10exp.

If anything, barracks aren't that needed... just kill 4 warriors, there are plenty of them after all .

[Leifmk]

Originally posted by devincutler

It seems like the ideal setting for hardcore SP civers. I do agree that it seems that techs are happening a bit faster timeline-wise.

This is to be expected once you get the ball rolling, because units are only twice instead of three times as expensive to build you can expand and improve your territory relatively faster, leading to quicker economic growth.

[Shaka II]

Originally posted by Blake
One thing for sure, barb spawn rate is INDEPENDENT of game speed. If barbs spawned at a rate proportional to that which civs build units, then on Quick there would be streams of stacks of 6 barbs, like take the above screenshot and multiply every barb by 6, that's how many quick would have if the spawn rate was proportional.

As it is on Marathon the barb problems are MUCH greater than on faster speeds, as in you have to deal with twice as many barbs, or deal with the same number of barbs but with half the defensive units, whichever way you please to look at it.

Hopefully if Firaxis does "fix" this, they'll add triple-raging barbs for people like me.

I'm still not sure what the reasons are for the increased barb activity, I think it's a combination of the huge map size, highlands topology, marathon speed, number of civs. I played a game on emperor level and epic speed as Ghengis Khan up until about 1600AD at which point I was number 8 out of 14 in a 15 civ game, Washington was eliminated. Hatshepsut and Saladin were leading. I quit when Julius Caesar and Peter the Great decided to attack, and I figured it probably wasn't going to be a win. With all the barb fighting in the beginning, development was slowed down, so no early conquest was possible.

Afterwards, I started a game huge/highlands/marathon/Capac/emperor/15 civs and it was amazing. While I had two cities, and trying to establish the third over copper, the axemen came. You have to get axemen before they do to make it. Up until then it was great, my Quechuas had killed about 30 archers and 20 warriors and were well promoted. My mistake was not having enough archers (too many Quechuas), so when the axemen came, it was game over.

My present game is a standard size/highlands/marathon/Elizabeth/emperor/11 civs and barb activity is much less, only about twice normal. Cultural borders have closed in fast, though I suspect with the default 7 civs, there would have been more intense barb activity.

So, how does barb activity change as a function of highlands map type, map size, game speed, and number of civs? I ordered 2GB more for my PC to handle huge/highlands better (the 1.5G was maxing out), though I suspect that large is the biggest that I'll play for now, partly for lag and game time reasons. Not sure what the lag would be like in the modern era, but it was just tolerable when I ended with cavalry/scientific method.

Also, I was playing normal barbarian, not raging.

[jdjuice]

Dark Ages

Edit:
I wrote a long post about the Dark Ages, only to find that the page numbers are on the left hand side and the post I was responding to was fairly old. I'm new here. Give me a break.

[Rook]

I tried marathon, and so far I love it. It is now 160 AD My Roman Legions are one of the top units on the continent. Christianity (Theology) was just invented, so this shows a somewhat historical sync with the real world. Its just one game so far, things might be different with other games, but I am loving it so far.

About Barbarians. This game I didn't have much of a prob with the barbs. I don't know if this is due to my strategy or what. As far as I can tell, Barbs spawn in the dark lands out of your line of site. One of the things I do is place warriors on hills as watchers. They keep the areas lit up, so no barbs spawn. When I encounter a barb city, I place an archer or other unit in the trees and preferably on a hill right outside the city. The barbs can't resist attacking the archers and they usually die. That's one less barb to invade my homeland and the unit gets some good experience to boot.

I am not a great strategist. I lose most of my games LOL, but this simple strategy seems sto work well.

[Hauptman]

Heres some pics of my marathon OCC test.... marathon speed emporer difficulty large map


1194 and researching infantry. Usually at 1000 - 1100 I'm trying to circumnavigate the globe. ome how i doubt it'll be anywhere close to 2050 when the spaceship launches.

[Hengist]

I've read, on a non-dedicated Civ-IV forum, some people commenting that playing on Marathon mode captures the feel of the old Civ titles.

Civ-IV is my first sortie into the genre, so I wouldn't know. For the Civ veterans out there, would you say that Marathon mode does indeed capture the feel of the earlier Civ titles?

[Rook]

For me, it does. I have played all 4 Civs. And so far Marathon seems to have fixed the feel I had when I played other Civs. Others may disagree, but that's mine feeling.

[Tammo]

for me it does as well - startet with Civ-1 ... how long ago was that?

anyway - as I had already modded Civ IV pre 1.52 from 200% epos research rate to 600% I did the same with Marathon (from 300% to 600%) and this seems to be the right speed for me...

it is correct that it takes very much time in the beginning, where you might run around with just one Warrior/Scout or even keep on pressing enter if he is wounded or even killed... but on the other hand I like the long time it takes in the beginning as well...
...in previous (unmodded) games I didn't really have to think much about researching animal-husbandry or fishing since until you have a worker (or workship) free for doing the work you would have researched it anyway... now is different... If I find stone early in the game (f.e.) i tend to research straight toward Masonry so I can get it to build wonders like the standing stones (or what is the stone-circle that gives an obelisc in every city is called?) which is one of my favorits...

I tend to lack behind real world inventions... but that doesn't bother me...

...last game I played on standard continents (everything else was random) on "noble"-difficulty... I did have some trouble with a barbarian city in the beginning but forgot all about it when the spanish attacked me just after I was able to produce my first archer...

...the battle raged for a long time and I was finally able to extinguish them...

...later on I was asked to aid Julius against the indish realm and decided to send my troops south and was able to overrun their empire within the next 200 years as well (togehter with the romans)...

...as I played the english (from random) I started to attack Julius as he declared war on Montezuma just after I was able to upgrade my first units to redcoats... he did have more units than me but his best where muscetmen at that point... it was nearly too easy...

...50 years later I won domination victory...

...I think my next game will be "monarch"-level...