Reply With QuoteIsn't that what they always say about serial killers?Murielle Degauque was, by all accounts, a normal child. A typical girl next door, you might say.
http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article330688.eceGirl next door who became a suicide bomber
By Stephen Castle in Brussels
Published: 02 December 2005
Murielle Degauque was, by all accounts, a normal child. A typical girl next door, you might say. True, as a teenager growing up in southern Belgium, she dabbled in drugs and preferred boys to books. But there was nothing to indicate that she would become the first Western woman to launch a suicide bomb attack in the name of jihad when she blew herself up in Iraq last month.
"She was absolutely normal as a kid," said Jeannine Samain, who lives a few doors down from the Degauque family home in Monceau-sur-Sambre.
Speaking to the Belgian newspaper La Dernière Heure, Degauque's parents, Jean and Liliane, described the typical growing pains of an adolescent girl. She had a talent, they said "for sticking with the difficult kids" . On one occasion they had to travel 170km to the Ardennes to find her. Of her boyfriends, her mother said: "I don't know how many there were."
But Murielle Degauque's life began to take a more sinister turn when the former bakery assistant met a Belgian of Moroccan extraction, Issam Goris, who took her to Morocco and helped her convert to Islam. It was a liaison which led the 37-year-old daughter of a hospital secretary to travel to Baghdad, strap explosives around her belt and detonate them in an attempt to kill American troops in Iraq. In the event, only Degauque died. But her death has left her family, friends and former neighbours wondering about the past and a nation fearing for the future. Degauque's relationship with Goris was not her first serious one; she had already married and divorced a Turkish man and met and then left an Algerian.
But the later attraction to Goris was to prove fatal. By now Degauque was unemployed and at risk of losing her state benefits. Degauque's parents said Goris claimed to have a house in Morocco, horses and a Mercedes and three motorbikes. They never learnt whether it was true.
When she returned to Belgium, Liliane and Jean Degauque found that their daughter had changed. She changed her name to Myriam and wore a veil. When visiting the family home in Monceau-sur-Sambre, Issam Goris would eat with Jean; the women would stay in another room. Neighbours noticed the change too. Ms Samain recalled the last time she saw Murielle eight months ago: " She was veiled. By that time she would just say bonjour and that was it." Some reports suggest that the couple travelled to Iraq in the autumn by car via Turkey. In any event it appears that Issam was killed by American forces.
For a month Murielle's parents were unable to make contact with their daughter, getting only her answerphone and, when they heard on Tuesday evening's news about a suicide bomber in Iraq, they thought immediately of Murielle. When Liliane Degauque saw police arriving on her doorstep on Wednesday, she said she knew immediately what it was about. Belgian prosecutors say Murielle Degauque exploded her device on 9 November near an American military patrol in Iraq but she was the only person killed. Although they were aware of the problem of Islamic cells in Belgium, the police could not conceal their surprise.
Glenn Audenaert, director of the federal police, said: "It is the first time that we see a Western woman, a Belgian, marrying a radical Muslim, and is converted up to the point of becoming a jihad fighter."
Experts said converts to Islam were often malleable because their search for a new identity could make them susceptible to strong personalities. " The phenomenon is not really new for the security services, but it is for the public. For them it is a real shock," said Edwin Bakker, a terrorism expert at the Clingendael Institute in The Hague. "They are looking for... a new sense to their life."
Five of 14 suspects detained in dawn raids on Wednesday were formally arrested yesterday and charged with involvement in a terrorist network that sent volunteers to Iraq, including Murielle Degauque. Nine were released. Those charged were a Tunisian and four Belgians, three with north African ancestry.
"This action shows how international terrorism tries to set up networks in western European nations, recruit for terror attacks in conflict areas and look for funds to finance terrorism," said the Belgian Prime Minister Guy Verhofstadt.
In France, police in the Paris region arrested a 15th suspect, a 27-year-old Tunisian thought to have had contacts with the Belgian group. Authorities said the Belgian network had been planning to send more volunteers to Iraq for attacks, a frightening reminder of how the war in Iraq can reach even into the suburban streets of Europe. Belgium has been mentioned as a breeding ground for terrorists in the past and there are currently 13 Belgian and Moroccan nationals on trial for allegedly being members of an Islamic group suspected in recent bomb attacks in Spain and Morocco.
The struggle to understand 'the enemy within'
Ever since the attack on New York on 11 September 2001, European governments have struggled to understand the phenomenon of the home-grown terrorist - the enemy within - in hopes of averting further attacks.
Some have middle-class backgrounds while others are drifters from broken homes. But most are known to have travelled to the countries known as the " centres of terror".
Western governments have been forced to recognise that the Iraq war and the televised brutal treatment of Muslims has radicalised an entire generation.
Zacarias Moussaoui, a Frenchman of Moroccan origin who is accused of being the 20th hijacker, was a law-abiding student who became an extremist, taking flying lessons with the purported intention of committing mass murder.
Richard Reid, a Briton, has been sentenced for trying to blow up an airliner over the Atlantic in December 2001. Reid, from Bromley, south-east London, converted to Islam in prison, where he was serving a sentence for mugging. He and Moussaoui attended the radical Finsbury Park mosque.
In April 2003, two Britons walked into a Tel Aviv bar wired with explosives. Asif Hanif's bomb killed three people and wounded 65, in Mike's Place, while his companion, Omar Sharif, fled from the scene after his device failed to detonate. His body was found floating off the Mediterranean coast almost two weeks later.
Sharif's brother and sister, Zahid and Parveen Sharif, were cleared this week by a court of failing to tell police that their brother planned to carry out the attack.
However, the prosecutor told the court that Parveen, a primary school teacher, had asked her pupils shortly after the 11 September attacks: " Hands up who has relatives in New York? Well, they are all dead."
She was also said to have told children the attacks on America were "a good thing" and that she was "on [Osama] bin Laden's team".
The London bombings on 7 July, which killed more than 50 people, were carried out by four bombers of Pakistani origin, all from "ordinary" backgrounds in the Leeds area.Their families knew nothing of their plans.
The British government hope to find out how many Britons of Pakistani origin may have made their way to that country and become radicalised in the religious schools or madrassas.
According to the French interior minister, Nicolas Sarkozy, at least seven people from France have been killed in Iraq and elsewhere fighting for al-Qa'ida. Another 10 are known to be working for al-Qa'ida in Iraq, Pakistan, Syria and Afghanistan.
Now a Belgian has become the latest European, and the first woman, to join the lengthening list of bombers.
Anne Penketh
What's been done about this? What should be done?
"We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work...After eight years of this Administration, we have just as much unemployment as when we started... And an enormous debt to boot!" — Henry Morgenthau, Franklin Delano Roosevelt's Treasury secretary, 1941.
Isn't that what they always say about serial killers?Murielle Degauque was, by all accounts, a normal child. A typical girl next door, you might say.
I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio
In the event, only Degauque died.
In any event it appears that Issam was killed by American forces.
Could you say the Yanks turned a double play?
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(") This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.
Attempted sac grounder into a double play.
04-06-04 Killdozer NEVER FORGET
Stadtluft Macht Frei
Killing it is the new killing it
Get Rich or Die Tryin'
***** - I shed no tear for her.
Was she a native Belgian or of Middle Eastern descent? Kinda seemed like relevant information.
Read her name again and tell me.
04-06-04 Killdozer NEVER FORGET
Stadtluft Macht Frei
Killing it is the new killing it
Get Rich or Die Tryin'
rot in hell *****
I will never understand why some people on Apolyton find you so clever. You're predictable, mundane, and a google-whore and the most observant of us all know this. Your battles of "wits" rely on obscurity and whenever you fail to find something sufficiently obscure, like this, you just act like a 5 year old. Congratulations, molly.
Asher on molly bloom
go bomb the **** out of let's say... jemen because of their hidden advanced star wars weapon system and claim after 1 year that the mission is accomplished !!!Originally posted by The Mad Monk
What's been done about this? What should be done?
or something like that!
"Ceterum censeo Ben esse expellendum."
I think we should bomb Bruges.
04-06-04 Killdozer NEVER FORGET
Stadtluft Macht Frei
Killing it is the new killing it
Get Rich or Die Tryin'
shut up you, axe wielding barabrian lumberjack!
"Ceterum censeo Ben esse expellendum."
BOMB CANADA!
Some of them speak french and it's easier to hit than Belgium. Plus it'll ensure popular support in the US.
Jon Miller: MikeH speaks the truth
Jon Miller: MikeH is a shockingly revolting dolt and a masturbatory urine-reeking sideshow freak whose word is as valuable as an aging cow paddy.
We've got both kinds
Indeed. If you aim at Belgium you might hit the Netherlands.
Not that that would be such a terrible thing
dooo
di
dooo
04-06-04 Killdozer NEVER FORGET
Stadtluft Macht Frei
Killing it is the new killing it
Get Rich or Die Tryin'
Aim Canada, and you might hit the US. How much support would that get?
I've allways wanted to play "Russ Meyer's Civilization"
Experts said converts to Islam were often malleable because their search for a new identity could make them susceptible to strong personalities. " The phenomenon is not really new for the security services, but it is for the public. For them it is a real shock," said Edwin Bakker, a terrorism expert at the Clingendael Institute in The Hague. "They are looking for... a new sense to their life."
Yeah, a new sense and then kaboom.
At least she didn't kill anyone but herself
CSPA
Not only do I not understand the senseless killing, but I don't think I'll ever understand how some women that grow up in a liberal Western democracy, where they enjoy more freedom than any other women in the world, just want to surrender it by converting to Islam.
I don't know, maybe some women just want a strong man/culture that dominates over them due to some deep seated insecurity?
The backlash starts here. I imagine the Muslim population in Belgium's going to be in for a pretty rough time. Who knows, 5 years down the line we might have to throw out the entire concept of suicide bombers being young, male and Arab. We might have to start profiling little old grannies yet.
I also found it interesting that on the page opposite this story in yeasterday's Times was an article on how Italian bishops were telling Catholics not to marry Muslims. I wonder if the situation will degenerate into a "you can't take our women" scenario.
STDs are like pokemon... you gotta catch them ALL!!!
I also found it interesting that on the page opposite this story in yeasterday's Times was an article on how Italian bishops were telling Catholics not to marry Muslims. I wonder if the situation will degenerate into a "you can't take our women" scenario.
The surprising thing was the complete lack of any kind of protest about this sentence from any political party. Basically, everyone admits that women aren't exactly treated well by muslim men
I will never understand why some people on Apolyton find you so clever. You're predictable, mundane, and a google-whore and the most observant of us all know this. Your battles of "wits" rely on obscurity and whenever you fail to find something sufficiently obscure, like this, you just act like a 5 year old. Congratulations, molly.
Asher on molly bloom
For some people this is attractive, in particular people who don't trust themselves (this girl appears to have made a mess of her life long ago) or have been raised in an abusive environment where they equate violence / control with love.Originally posted by our_man
Not only do I not understand the senseless killing, but I don't think I'll ever understand how some women that grow up in a liberal Western democracy, where they enjoy more freedom than any other women in the world, just want to surrender it by converting to Islam.
I don't know, maybe some women just want a strong man/culture that dominates over them due to some deep seated insecurity?
He's got the Midas touch.
But he touched it too much!
Hey Goldmember, Hey Goldmember!
I note particularly that she'd been with a Turkish man and an Algerian man previous to her Moroccan.
She certainly seems to have been "profiling"...
04-06-04 Killdozer NEVER FORGET
Stadtluft Macht Frei
Killing it is the new killing it
Get Rich or Die Tryin'
She was 37 years old for Pete's sake, yet the article treats her as if she were a runaway teenager!
"I say shoot'em all and let God sort it out in the end!
more sex appeal
Yeah, I found that strange, as well. who refers to a 37-yo woman as a "girl next door" anyway?
Sensationalism.Originally posted by Az
Yeah, I found that strange, as well. who refers to a 37-yo woman as a "girl next door" anyway?
It sounds more dramatic if they play this angle up. After all, if this girl next door could succumb to the lure of Islamic terrorism, which one of our fair daughters could be next to fall to the lustful charms of the Musselmen?
STDs are like pokemon... you gotta catch them ALL!!!
ahh, the lustful charms of getting beat up.
Are you actually saying that you might miss?Originally posted by Tattila the Hun
Aim Canada, and you might hit the US.
What?
Isn't it nice that young converts are taught to blow themselves up and murder innocent people?
"Our scientific power has out run out spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men." - Martin Luther King Jr.
"A cynical, mercenary, demagogic press will produce in time a people as base as itself." - Joseph Pulitzer
Aim at Canada and you're more likely to hit one worthless chunk of ice or another.Originally posted by Tattila the Hun
Aim Canada, and you might hit the US. How much support would that get?
http://www.lesoir.be/rubriques/belgi...8_391918.shtmlMuriel, de Monceau-sur-Sambre à Bagdad
Le Soir
vendredi 02 décembre 2005, 08:00
L'histoire de la jeune terroriste se précise. Elle n'était pas la seule prête au martyre.
Dans leur maison de briques rouges de l'avenue de l'Europe, à Monceau-sur-Sambre, Jean et Liliane, les parents de Muriel Degauque, revoient la vie de leur fille. Écrasés de chagrin, ils n'ont pas de mots pour exprimer leur solitude. Ils se taisent et demandent qu'on les laisse en paix.
Tous, dans ce quartier paisible des hauteurs de Monceau, tentent de trouver la clé du comportement de la jolie jeune femme venue encore saluer ses parents au mois d'août. Un jeune du coin se souvient de l'arrivée de Muriel : « Elle est descendue de la Mercedes blanche de son compagnon. Un modèle ancien. Lui était tout vêtu de blanc. On aurait dit Aladin. Elle portait son voile, comme toujours. On ne voyait que ses yeux. »
Andrea Dorange, la voisine des Degauque, a demandé à Jean et Liliane si elle devait répondre aux questions des journalistes. « Ils m'ont dit oui, pour que je dise la vérité. Elle était gentille, polie, bien élevée. »
Andrea est arrivée dans le quartier quand Muriel avait cinq ans. C'était une jolie gamine avec qui elle parlait souvent. Pour Andrea, la petite était espiègle, peut-être un peu influençable.
Rien de grave, juste une propension à suivre les autres, hélas pas les plus faciles, pour être acceptée par le groupe. Muriel étudiait normalement. Elle a fait l'école moyenne à l'athénée de Fontaine-l'Evêque puis étudié la vente à Charleroi.
Au début de son adolescence, elle a dû affronter la mort de son frère. Jean-Paul est mort dans un accident de moto alors qu'il avait 24 ans. Lors de ses funérailles, la maison était couverte de fleurs, et les copains motards ont défilé dans l'avenue en cul-de-sac, devant les petits jardins tirés au cordeau, avec le grand terril boisé en arrière-plan. « C'est Muriel qui avait annoncé la nouvelle à ses parents. Ils étaient à la caravane. Muriel me disait que c'est elle qui aurait dû partir, à la place de son frère. Tout le monde l'aimait. »
Ses parents accablés par la peine, Muriel a affronté la vie. Après l'adolescence, elle a travaillé dans une boulangerie puis dans un café. Elle a épousé un homme très gentil, s'est convertie à l'islam. Pour Andrea, Muriel avait plus la foi que son mari. Il ne l'obligeait pas à porter le tchador.
Pourquoi l'a-t-elle quitté ? Allez savoir. Le coup de foudre pour un autre homme : folle d'Issam, elle allait de plus en plus loin dans sa nouvelle religion, parlait et écrivait l'arabe. À la maison, en présence de sa maman, elle ôtait son voile, mais le remettait quand son père arrivait. Les parents avaient reporté sur Muriel tout l'amour qu'ils vouaient à leur fils. Ils lui avaient transmis des principes stricts que Muriel s'entêtait à défier.
Ce défi passe d'abord par un voyage que le couple effectue au Maroc. Trois ans durant. La famille n'aura que peu de nouvelles de Muriel. À leur retour, Muriel et Hissam, 31 ans, s'installent rue de Mérode, près de la gare du Midi, à Bruxelles. Elle vit recluse, femme au foyer. On ne lui connaît aucune activité particulière.
« Lui avait ouvert, à leur domicile, un cabinet dans lequel il soignait les gens à l'aide de ventouses. Une activité très rémunératrice », selon des enquêteurs.
C'est notamment en exerçant ses talents qu'Issam exprime son radicalisme. Au point d'attirer l'attention de la Sûreté de l'État qui se met alors à le surveiller, tout comme la section antiterrorisme de la police fédérale. On est alors en juillet de cette année. Hissam et Muriel multiplient les rencontres avec une filière irakienne. Jusqu'au départ pour Bagdad et ce fameux 9 novembre où Muriel se fait exploser contre un convoi militaire américain.
Quand elle regarde à la télé les kamikazes se ceinturer de bombes, Andrea Dorange se demande comment Muriel a pu entrer dans la peau d'un de ces personnages d'un autre monde.
Elle, Muriel, la gamine espiègle de Monceau, qui aimait les expériences, connaissait le Coran et était amoureuse d'un homme qui l'emmènerait pour un voyage dont elle ne reviendrait pas.
In short:
She was nice, but slighly influencable. She needed recognition by the group and thus was more of a follower kind.
She had to go through the death of her brother: 'It should have been me, everybody loved him'
With her first husband, she was the one who wanted to be vailed, he didn't asked her.
So, according to me, she was unsure about herself. Follower, need of recognition, saying *she* should have died instead of the one who was loved by everybody, and wanting to do more than her share (wear veil while with a moderate muslim and wanting to explode herself when with a more fundamentalist one), are signs of a person with low self-esteem.
Sacrificing oneself for a higher purpose is very appealing to people like that.
And that's where religions are strong: they offer such people a possibilty to transform their shity existence into a holy eternal life... or death.
The books that the world calls immoral are the books that show the world its own shame. Oscar Wilde.
Yeah, if that's not a reason to go and kill several innocent people, I don't know what is.
Actually, there are none!
I think we should bomb Bruges.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God? - Epicurus
I know a new convert, and she hasn't blown herslef up, and neither did she kill innocent people. What should I do?Originally posted by Oerdin
Isn't it nice that young converts are taught to blow themselves up and murder innocent people?
"I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
"I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
"I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis
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