Reply With QuoteMaybe it would be easier to explain if you would also add a list of what you get in each city, and how you connected everything. e.g. the deer looks to be unconnected, no wonder you won't get the resource.
DeepO
** I have updated this from the first posting, including information gained from feedback (thanks!). **
I noticed in my games that the behavior of trade networks did not seem to conform to the definition given in the Civ4 manual. Here is what the manual says:
This description is ambiguous and incorrect (e.g. city radius). After doing some testing, I have come up with a new description which may serve you better:.... A city will get the benifits of an improved resource if that resource is within the city's "city radius." If not, the improved resource must be connected to the city by a "transport network" of roads, rivers and coastlines for that city to gain its benifits.
A city will get the benifits of an improved resource if that resource is within your borders and is connected to the city by a "transport network". This network must be able to trace from the resource an unbroken path of roads, rivers, or any combination of roads and rivers back to the city.
Cities may be connected to other cities by any combination of roads, rivers, and (conditionaly) coastal waters. Before the Sailing technology is researched, coastal waters may be used in the transport network only if they are within your borders. While rivers and coastal waters "connect", roads and coastal waters do not. Fresh water lakes function the same as coastal waters.
A transport network's roads, rivers, and coastal waters (with Sailing) may be traced through another civilization's borders (with or without an Open Borders agreement) if you are at peace with them. A state of war will block this path.
A city that is built atop of a resource will gain access to it only if your civilization has the technology to build the resource's required improvement. You can not actualy build the improvement, but you will automaticaly gain the benifits of the resource.
At the bottom of this post I have included an updated map showing transport network examples. Following is a description of it:
The civilization shown does not have the Sailing technology.
- Pig w/ Pasture is connected to City A (road -> river -> City A)
- Sheep w/ Pasture is connected to City A (river -> City A) *note that no road is required on the resource tile if the resource is adjacent to a river.
- Wine w/ Plantation is not connected to City A (it requires a road).
- Cow w/ Pasture is connected to City B (road -> City B)*notice that City A traces a path of river -> coast -> road/cow, but because roads do not connect to coasts the network is incomplete.
- Corn w/ Farm is not connected to City C (the corn is not within the civ's borders).
- City C is connected to City B (coastal waters within border), thus City C receives the Cow of City B.
- With the advent of Sailing, all of the cities would be connected (City A -> river -> coastal waters -> Cities B & C)
I hope that you find this useful.
Last edited by Eric Snyder; November 2, 2005 at 02:19.
Maybe it would be easier to explain if you would also add a list of what you get in each city, and how you connected everything. e.g. the deer looks to be unconnected, no wonder you won't get the resource.
DeepO
This race has the Hunting and Animal Husbandry Techs.
The Pig with Pasture is connected to City A via a road to the river to City A.
The Sheep with Pasture (no road) is connected to City A via the river to City A.
The Deer with Camp (no road) is NOT connected with any city.
The Cow with Pasture is connected to City B via road. It is NOT connected to City A.
The Ivory with Camp is not connected to any city.
Once this Civ gains the Sailing tech, both cities with share thier resources with each other via the coastline (City A -> river -> coast -> City B).
The cow really has me scatching my head. It is not within any city radius, but it is within the cultural border. I wonder if this is indeed a bug...
Rivers seem to function exactly like roads for connecting purposes, although if a resource is adjacent to a river (the sheep), then the resource does not need a road build atop of it. If the resource is adjacent to a city (the deer), then it DOES need a road built atop of it.
Lakes do not seem to effect trade networks in any way. I would have guessed that they would have worked like rivers.
Coasts only connect cities (with Sailing tech). Resources adjacent to coastal tiles do not gain connection from the coast alone (coasts do not act like rivers).
I hope that this helps.
Eric
Last edited by Eric Snyder; November 1, 2005 at 07:47.
Sorry DeepO, but I do not know how to post an image in between my post, so I had to post the picture, then write the message...
Eric
Bug? how so? it is within your borders, and connected to city B by road. Is not connected to city A... so B gets a cow, A doesn't.Originally posted by Eric Snyder
The cow really has me scatching my head. It is not within any city radius, but it is within the cultural border. I wonder if this is indeed a bug...
the manual should read
A city will get the benifits of an improved resource if that resource is withinyour borders. The improved resource must be connected to the city by a "transport network" of roads, rivers and coastlines for that city to gain its benifits.
BTW, you can check up on trade networks in globe view if there is doubt.
DeepO
Sure, the word bug may have been overstated. I guess that it was just behavour that I did not expect. Still stuck in the Civ3 mind set...
Your manual clarification is much improved over the original, but I think that I would clarify it even further. How's this?
A city will get the benifits of an improved resource if that resource is within your borders and is connected to the city by a "transport network". This network must be able to trace from the resource an unbroken path of roads, rivers, or any combination of roads and rivers back to the city. Cities may be connected to other cities by any combination of roads, rivers, and coastal waters.
Cities can be connected by coastal waters without Sailing if there is a route that can be traced between the two that is entirely within your borders or "territorial waters." On your example, if you place City C on top of the Cow, all three cities would be able to trade by sea, even with no roads and no naval techs, since there would be a contiguous block of controlled coast tiles along the south and west coasts. It took me a while to figure out how some of my coastal cities were connected when I first started.
So if the resource is in the city radius, does it need to be connected to the trade network?
Yes, a resource must always be connected to a transport network to be of use.So if the resource is in the city radius, does it need to be connected to the trade network?
I just tested that and you're right. Thanks for the tip!Cities can be connected by coastal waters without Sailing if there is a route that can be traced between the two that is entirely within your borders or "territorial waters."
In my last game, I think I noticed a little discrepancy with the AI and the way resources work. I had cows in a tile adjacent to my city and had a worker doing auto tile improvements and then auto trade improvements.
The worker built a pasture on the cow tile, but did not build a road. It did build roads to a mine and a beaver camp 1 square out from the city.
After the worker had 'finished' doing everything it could, it went back to the city and just sat there. It never went out and built a road to connect the cows. I did not get any benefit from the cows. I manually made the worker build a road on the cow tile and received the benefit.
Does the AI think that tiles adjacent to a city are connected even though they aren't?
Ah, there is something else that I should add. If you build a city atop of a resource, then the city will automaticaly gain access to it if you have the technology to build it's improvement. You can't actually build this improvement, so you will not get the food/hammer/coin benifits of it, but you will get access to the resource (including the happiness or health benifits).
I'm not certain this is true. I had a game where I built one city on a horse resource, and had another connected and pastured; in trading with AIs, only one horse asset was listed.you will not get the food/hammer/coin benifits of it, but you will get access to the resource (including the happiness or health benifits).
IMO that's right. You are using one horse for your purposes and then you have a extra horse resource. The extra horse is up for trading.Originally posted by Tennyson
I'm not certain this is true. I had a game where I built one city on a horse resource, and had another connected and pastured; in trading with AIs, only one horse asset was listed.
If I have understand correctly. Your civ will reserve the only resource of particular kind for itself and the extra ones are tradeable.
It should work that way, but at the time it listed everything I had as available to trade as (1). The only other thing I had two of was Stone, yet corn and rice and cows and etc. were all listed. And stone was listed as (2), not (1).IMO that's right. You are using one horse for your purposes and then you have a extra horse resource. The extra horse is up for trading.
If I have understand correctly. Your civ will reserve the only resource of particular kind for itself and the extra ones are tradeable.
It should be easy enough to verify, but until it's verified I do not trust the trade screen NOT to let me trade away my only copy of a resource. Because that's what it's looked like in the few games I've played.
I would definately prefer if I only had one of something that it not be listed.
In the diplo screen, The numbers by the AI's resources are "extras." But the numbers by your resources are the true number you have (i.e. 1=no extras). This is confusing, but I prefer that I gain the ability to trade away my only resource if I really need to. Say all my cities had theaters, and I knew that a dye would give me +2 happy faces (1 for the dye, one for the theater+dye bonus). It would definitely be worth trading my only silk for someone else's extra dye.
mmmmm...cabbage
Being able to trade away your only copy of a resource is probably a necessary UI feature; lumping it in with your other resources without some kind of differentiation is bad.
I would either italicize them, or use (0) to indicate that it's not an extra and sync it up with the enemy's trade screen. Probably both.
You resource available for trading in the Diplomacy screen is different from that of Civ3, and is misleading. It is a minor issue, but it did contribute to my mistake of trading away my only source of horse to a 3rd party for 1 gold/turn, when I was in the middle of a war with somebody, thus taking away my ability to build knights for many turns (and the Knight was supposed to be my new weapon that would've made some real difference on the battlefield!!!)
horse(1) = the only horse you've got. don't make that same mistake (until the devs decide to change this behaviour)
Well, I had tested it with wine. I went back and tested it with horses and the city did get the resource. I do not know why your game had only one horse.I'm not certain this is true. I had a game where I built one city on a horse resource, and had another connected and pastured; in trading with AIs, only one horse asset was listed.
Was it a non-capital city that settled on the horse square?
Yes, it was a non-capitol city in my test.
Cool. I don't know what happened either then.
I just placed a city beside corn. The corn was not on a coastal square. I ordered my worker to auto build trade network. It built a farm and a road on the corn.Originally posted by Falconer999
In my last game, I think I noticed a little discrepancy with the AI and the way resources work. I had cows in a tile adjacent to my city and had a worker doing auto tile improvements and then auto trade improvements.
The worker built a pasture on the cow tile, but did not build a road. It did build roads to a mine and a beaver camp 1 square out from the city.
After the worker had 'finished' doing everything it could, it went back to the city and just sat there. It never went out and built a road to connect the cows. I did not get any benefit from the cows. I manually made the worker build a road on the cow tile and received the benefit.
Does the AI think that tiles adjacent to a city are connected even though they aren't?
I then started over doing what you did(auto-improvement then auto-trade). Again it built a farm and a road on the corn. I don't know why yours did not.
I have completely updated the top post with new info, and feed back from others in this thread. I believe that it is pretty definitive now. Enjoy!
Excellent basic info, well communicated. Thank you.
The greatest delight for man is to inflict defeat on his enemies, to drive them before him, to see those dear to them with their faces bathed in tears, to bestride their horses, to crush in his arms their daughters and wives.
Duas uncias in puncta mortalis est.
bit of a dummy here, only been playing for 1 week.
So just to clarify, to trade resource from one city to another all I need is to build a road, correct???
To trade it with another civ, all I need is to build a road from that city directly, or indirctly via another city, to ANY city of the other civ, correct?? (does it have to be between the two capital cities instead?)
Normally, the max I can trade from each city is 2 resources. Correct?
How do I dictate that I prefer to trade with foreign civ instead of internally? I assume I can get more money that way.
Sometimes when I hit the "auto trade network" the worker would just sit there and do nothing..... why?
Thanks!!!
Road or river, or a combination thereof. Example: one city has copper. You run a road from that city to a nearby river. Farther down the same river, you have another road running to your capital. You'll have copper in your capital. It will also trade by sea through your borders, outside your borders only along the coast once you get Sailing, and by sea outside everyone elses borders once you get Astronomy.
To trade with another civ, your two capitals must be connected by a trade network. Assuming you get sailing in the early going, generally you'll be trading with coastal civs first, because building roads to another civ takes time and you have to protect the workers from barbarians.
You don't dictate where the city trades. That's automatic.
Age and treachery will defeat youth and skill every time.
Thanks for this, I've just started to play this game and I was a bit confued about why I sometimes needed to connect resources with roads and sometimes I didn't. I realise now it was rivers doing the work for me.
For any of your cities to have access and benefits of a resource, the resource must be linked to THAT city (and the resource must be improved too).Originally posted by pakto
bit of a dummy here, only been playing for 1 week.
So just to clarify, to trade resource from one city to another all I need is to build a road, correct???
To trade it with another civ, all I need is to build a road from that city directly, or indirctly via another city, to ANY city of the other civ, correct?? (does it have to be between the two capital cities instead?)
Normally, the max I can trade from each city is 2 resources. Correct?
How do I dictate that I prefer to trade with foreign civ instead of internally? I assume I can get more money that way.
Sometimes when I hit the "auto trade network" the worker would just sit there and do nothing..... why?
Thanks!!!
To trade with an AI, there must be a link from the resource to your capital and another from your capital to the AI’s capital.
Btw, the benefits that you get from access to a resource is either happiness, health, the ability to build certain units (eg chariots need horses) or bonuses to certain builds (stone gives +100% bonus to pyramids). You get that for all the cities linked to the resource but do not trade the resource among cities for gold.
City trade income is completely different
so how can I increase my City Trade Income??? Often I only see 2 other cities trading with each city. Yet I know it is possible to trade with more. I really would like to know how I can increase my chances of trading with a foreign city. ie. so the income isn't a case of left hand giving to the right.
Thanks.
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