Apolyton Civ4 PREVIEW (By Solver) - Part 1 online

[Solver]

We've just posted the first part of our second Civ4 preview, written by yours truly - available right here.

Five new screens included .

[conmcb25]

Yaaaaaaaay!

*scampers off to start reading*

[Aro]

Starting reading just
5... 4... 3... 2... 1...

Now!

[Sub263]

I'm reading it now, but i'm just wondering, what does ICS mean? All that I know is that it has something to do with spreading out to far.

[alva]

Basicaly it's putting towns all over the map.

The term is so common that I'm not sure anymore what it's stands for.

EDIT: see post below.

[Solver]

ICS - Infinite City Sprawl. Buiding Settlers a lot and fast and putting your cities everywhere, so you end up with a ton of cities.

[alva]

meh, quoted where I should have edited.

[Harovan]

A pretty radical change to how Settlers (and Workers, too) are built does a lot to put ICS in its grave. Now, your cities produce Settlers with both shields and food. That is, a city that has 5 food per turn and 3 shields will be producing a Settler at 8 shields per turn. At the same time, the city will not be growing as all excess food goes towards the Settler. Thus, you are either growing or building a Settler but not both at the same time.

Settlers cost 2 population points and 30 shields in Civ3 already. So you couldn't both grow and build a settler there either, except for very rare cases of high food cities. This feature does absolutely nothing to make settler building harder. At the countrary, it eases it. However it is a good thing nonetheless, because the AI was very ineffective in Civ3 to balance population growth and shield building and mostly had finished one, while the other was still in the making and hence, wasted resources. With the new system it won't waste them anymore.

[Fidel]

your preview is the best thing ever to come from a baltic state
just make sure to state that islam prerequisite is 'divine right' and not a 'pine right' of you risk having al-qaeda blow up your office...

[Solver]

It eases Settler building? Sorry, no way. Settlers cost more, your cities can't grow while producing them, so you stagnate your population if you build Settlers too often... on this one you're going to have to trust me as I've actually experienced it .

Civ3 cities would grow while building a Settler, regain one of the 2 lost pop points probably instantly - they would likely have the same pop 1-3 turns after producing a settler as they had when they started on it.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Solver
Civ3 cities would grow while building a Settler, regain one of the 2 lost pop points probably instantly - they would likely have the same pop 1-3 turns after producing a settler as they had when they started on it.

You may have played Civ4, but other than you I have played Civ3. I can assure you, in normal cities with 2 excess food (that's the standard) even with a granary a pop point is regained in 5 turns only. I'd also like to know on what you would base the assertion, that "one of the pop points is probably regained instantly".

[Solver]

I have played Civ3, just pretty long ago . From my memory, though, I can remember usually regaining a pop point very fast after building a Settler.

You do underestimate, though, my interest for Civ3 .

[Fidel]

what did you mean by this:
"Once the city defenses are taken down, however, your siege weapons can not bombard the units defending the city. You can choose to attack with your siege and inflict collateral damage on several of the city defenders, but you are likely to use your siege unit in the process."

you actually attack with arty just like you did in civ2?
you suggest that if you attack the walls (for instance) you cannot attack units with your arty?
sorry for pestering, that passage is confusing...

[Anakha]

"As a result, you will loose if you attempt to wage war with a large number of the same unit type..."

Just a minor pet peeve of mine: it's "lose", not "loose". Very common mistake.
Besides that (and the "pine right" mentioned earlier ), it's a great preview, thanks a lot! Clears up many questions! (although I'm sure that it will create still many more, poor you and Mark... )

[Aro]

Thanks, Solver.
Well, all I can say is... Poor Yin!

[Jaybe]

Solver,
4th paragraph, last sentence: "You can choose to attack with your siege and inflict collateral damage on several of the city defenders, but you are likely to use your siege unit in the process."

Did you mean "... but you are likely to lose your siege unit in the process." ??
I can't get it to make sense otherwise.

[MarkG]

even with a granary a pop point is regained in 5 turns only

well now city growing can easily stop for over 10 turns on the early stage. that's a lot

[Solver]

Siege units can attack just like normal units, but then they cause collateral damage. However, they can also bombard cities, which means that they "attack the walls" - they decrease the city defenses, but don't get damaged in the process.

So basically, you can bombard city defenses to 0 first. Then, if you want to, you can attack with your siege weapon directly (like Civ2) which will damage multiple defenders.

[Solver]

1. Pine Right is fixed. Wasn't a typo but a bug on our server.

2. I actually typed "loose" ? It's also a pet peeve of mine!

3.

Did you mean "... but you are likely to lose your siege unit in the process." ??
I can't get it to make sense otherwise.

Of course.

[Fidel]

ah-ha. clever concept, but i can already hear people cry 'this is not realistic' LOL

thiz game iz br0ken

[Solver]

How isn't it? A catapult can fire boulders at city walls from a large distance, but it can also fire at units in the open field - but then it will get charged by the enemy, do some damage, but probably die. In Civ4, if you attack with siege units directly, especially city defenders, you're really likely to lose your unit.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Solver
I have played Civ3, just pretty long ago . From my memory, though, I can remember usually regaining a pop point very fast after building a Settler.

That's a solid explanation.

I concede defeat.

[Solver]

Ralph - BTW, absolutely feel free to correct me if I say something stupid about Civ3, I expect it's around two years since I played it.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by MarkG

even with a granary a pop point is regained in 5 turns only

well now city growing can easily stop for over 10 turns on the early stage. that's a lot

Except that in Civ3 you needed 2 pop for a settler. 2 x 5 makes also 10 turns. Of course I concur, that it's a lot.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Solver
Ralph - BTW, absolutely feel free to correct me if I say something stupid about Civ3, I expect it's around two years since I played it.

Rest assured, this one was the only bug I found. The other text is about new stuff.

[Solver]

Well, but in Civ3, your cities grew at that time. If Settlers took more than 5 turns to produce (IIRC, was usually the case), your cities would add a pop point while building the Settler.

In Civ4, this has another implication - your Settlers can also be built well in high-food cities with few shields.

[Sub263]

This is part one, but how many parts will there be exactly?

[Solver]

Three.

[Aro]

Originally posted by Solver
...about Civ3, I expect it's around two years since I played it.

And we know why.

We definitely need a "envious" smiley...

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Solver
Well, but in Civ3, your cities grew at that time. If Settlers took more than 5 turns to produce (IIRC, was usually the case), your cities would add a pop point while building the Settler.

In Civ4, this has another implication - your Settlers can also be built well in high-food cities with few shields.

Yes, and that is a good thing, as I mentioned. A good human player would manage to balance food growth and shield production in Civ3, but the AI was not able to do it and wasted masses of shields in that process.

By the way, can you also build settlers in cities without food growth? I.e. costs building a settler still population?