Unit trade/purchase or no?

ElConejo · October 9, 2005, 19:02

I remember a while back that trading units and buying units and weapons from other civs (and selling of course) was going to be included in Civ4... however as looking over the Diplomacy and Foreign Affairs stuff, it seems to have gone unmentioned...?

Does this mean that unit trading will not be in Civ4? or am I missing something?

Thanks!

Footie Mad · October 9, 2005, 20:28

It would be a pretty nice feature. Being the capitalistic arms dealer in a brutal war, building a mountain of gold on the rotting corpses of fallen soldiers and civilians. Ahahahaha, ok i'm going to bed now.

The_Aussie_Lurker · October 9, 2005, 21:32

It may well be if you consider two things which have been said so far:

1) It was indicated on a few occasions over the last 4 months that unit trades would be available for Multiplayer games-I have not seen this claim rescinded at any point.

2) According to the Shacknews article (11 things...), all MP features will be available in SP as well.

When taken together, this seems to suggest unit trades in the game-though I have yet to see a diplomacy screen to back it up. It is possible, though, that such trades are only possible in Alliance or Defensive Pact situations. Guess we will all find out in 2 weeks time!!!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

sabrewolf · October 10, 2005, 07:33

Originally posted by Footie Mad
It would be a pretty nice feature. Being the capitalistic arms dealer in a brutal war, building a mountain of gold on the rotting corpses of fallen soldiers and civilians. Ahahahaha, ok i'm going to bed now.

imagine the americans selling units (weapons) to the arabs while the russians support persia...

how unrealistic...

not...

molly bloom · October 10, 2005, 08:34

It would be an interesting addition- it's always good to come across a little unfamiliar history, such as the Celtic mercenaries employed by the Ptolemies, who left graffiti on Egyptian monuments and started a revolt, or like the scene from the film 'Fall Of The Roman Empire' when Marcus Aurelius reviews all the varied troops and allies of the Roman Empire.

Imagine 'buying' a few Indian fast workers prior to a wonder building effort, or some expert cavalry, or marines...

Harovan · October 10, 2005, 09:37

I'm against it, at least in SP. It has always been source of exploits, be it Civ2, where you could drive thriving AI civs into ruin by gifting them units they'd have to upkeep, or Civ3, where you could severely hamper the growth of AI civs in the early game by buying their workers.

MattPilot · October 10, 2005, 11:01

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
I'm against it, at least in SP. It has always been source of exploits, be it Civ2, where you could drive thriving AI civs into ruin by gifting them units they'd have to upkeep, or Civ3, where you could severely hamper the growth of AI civs in the early game by buying their workers.

Well, if you are against it, then don't use it. But don't take the fun away from me.

Btw, who's to say the AI can't deal with it? I've seen the AI multiple times disband units.

Harovan · October 10, 2005, 11:13

Originally posted by MattPilot
Well, if you are against it, then don't use it. But don't take the fun away from me.

Excuse me for expressing my opinion in a thread that is asking for it.

Modo44 · October 10, 2005, 11:31

I think it is a fun option, but only for games without the AI. The possible exploits make the idea look like a

for SP games.

sabrewolf · October 10, 2005, 11:55

Originally posted by Modo44
I think it is a fun option, but only for games without the AI. The possible exploits make the idea look like a

for SP games.

just wait until the AI gangs up on you and suddenly sends over dozens over super-promoted modern armour to your border where you thought a very weak oponent was vegetating away

Modo44 · October 10, 2005, 14:54

Originally posted by sabrewolf
just wait until the AI gangs up on you and suddenly sends over dozens over super-promoted modern armour to your border where you thought a very weak oponent was vegetating away

*yawn*

Those would be my tanks, bought a long time ago from the dumb AI...

GeoModder · October 10, 2005, 16:08

'Would' indeed, since there was a profound lack of funding to obtain them in the first place.

Modo44 · October 10, 2005, 18:03

Originally posted by GeoModder
'Would' indeed, since there was a profound lack of funding to obtain them in the first place.

You speak as if you had never witnessed the kind of cashflow one can have in Civ3 around the time of Tanks. Seriously, it would be all too easy to buy most of those advanced units from the AI.

MattPilot · October 10, 2005, 19:53

A "simple" formula and checks & balances system could prevent such exploits.

For example, if Number of units is less than number of units allowed (being termed "Free units", no upkeep), the AI would buy units as long as they are more advanced then the one it has. YOu could measure that via the "strength" value. The strength of the unit must be more than the "average" strength value of the AI's units.

If number of units is higher than units allowed AND the AI has negative cash flow, then sell units, starting with the weakest ones.

IF a player decides to flood a AI with units to fook up his financial balance, then the AI will disband units, starting with the weakest unit until a positive cash flow is established again. So in essence, the AI is getting stronger.

It shouldn't be so hard.

GeoModder · October 10, 2005, 22:13

Originally posted by Modo44
You speak as if you had never witnessed the kind of cashflow one can have in Civ3 around the time of Tanks. Seriously, it would be all too easy to buy most of those advanced units from the AI.

Bought long time ago and time of Tanks cancel each other out here.

Of course provided you mean you reached that age as well.

Modo44 · October 11, 2005, 02:29

Originally posted by GeoModder
Bought long time ago and time of Tanks cancel each other out here.

Not really. I could be buying Tanks with lots of XP, and later upgrading them to MAs on my own...

Originally posted by GeoModder
Of course provided you mean you reached that age as well.

Yes, that is something to consider. But this goes all the way down to the Ancient Age, and at the start of the game you hardly have a credible threat (except for very high difficulty levels, of course). Consider that, going the peaceful route, I should be able to have a better cashflow most of the time, so I could actually start these buyouts as soon as first experienced units show up for sale.

Of course, you could just prohibit the AI from selling anything, but that would kind of make the feature pointless in the first place...

V. Soma · October 11, 2005, 03:11

Mark mentions DONATING units...

so perhaps you can give them as a gift, but not getteing anything in return - no real trade - maybe beacause of balance issues?

The_Aussie_Lurker · October 11, 2005, 03:17

Well, that would be fine, but I HOPE we can trade them for stuff. I wouldn't even mind if you could donate the units which, in turn, put you in MUCH better books with that civ in future trade. i.e. 'here have 2 tanks to fight off the evil enemy'. 2 turns later 'oh, I remember you, you helped me fend off the evil (insert civ here). Here have some of my oil why don't you?' Not exactly like that, but you get the idea

!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

ElConejo · October 11, 2005, 11:19

Originally posted by The_Aussie_Lurker
Well, that would be fine, but I HOPE we can trade them for stuff. I wouldn't even mind if you could donate the units which, in turn, put you in MUCH better books with that civ in future trade. i.e. 'here have 2 tanks to fight off the evil enemy'. 2 turns later 'oh, I remember you, you helped me fend off the evil (insert civ here). Here have some of my oil why don't you?' Not exactly like that, but you get the idea

!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

Agreed, that would be fine with me too. I understand the limitations with the AI, but I had hoped they had writen something(as stated above) to protect the AI from stupid mistakes like that.. However in the long run, I just want to be able to Transfer units at all. I think that would make things very interesting for world politics (esp with political blocs forming)

I am just going to keep hopeing if i dont hear anything conrete its only a 14 day wait!

Boris Godunov · October 11, 2005, 11:32

Originally posted by V. Soma
Mark mentions DONATING units...

so perhaps you can give them as a gift, but not getteing anything in return - no real trade - maybe beacause of balance issues?

That sounds most reasonable to me. Otherwise, unit trading would be a huge exploit. They should also cap the number of units you can give.