How to Win at Japan Shogun Conquest

[joncnunn]

Overview:
Japan is in some ways the most like the Epic game. There is a full 540 turns to achieve victory like the Epic, and the full range of tactics from war mongler from turn 1 on to build a tech lead and never fight are possible depending upon difficulty level and which civ you've chosen.

In addition, the civ locations are just as imbalanced as a random epic game. So choose your civ wisely.

But there are important differences: Most civilian structures are more expensive than their equalvents in the epic. And no civs have any traights. Plus there are no unique units.

Victory Conditions and Time limits:

Domination: 35% land + 35% pop.

Conquest: Wipe out all 17 opposing civs.

Instant Elimination: Lose your Daimyo -> Lose the game.

Golden Age: The only way to get a GA in this conquest is to build a Great Wonder. Any will do.

Govts: There are only two govts in this conquest:

1. Despotism. HALF THE UNIT SUPPORT AS STANDARD. Also has low WW. The usual tile penalty and 2 MPs allowed.

2. Fedualism. Doubles your unit support, worker speed, features the epic-republic tile bonsus, 3 MPs allowed and has low WW. In every respect, this govt is better than Depostism.

Great Wonders:

In addition to triguring your GA:

Oracle : Decent, I guess.
Great Library : Depends upon your tech progress
Great Wall : I prefer to take my wars to the enemy, so not particularly useful except as denial by itself. This is however the cheapest great wonder.
Sun Tzus: In addition to Baracks everywhere, increases change for Military Leader. The most usueful one.
K. Collosum : (Shakespeares Theater without the allows city size 3 flag.) I don't tend to find that useful.
War Council: Requires Fedualism govt. (UN) Probably more important as denial / filibuster to keep the AI from winning than actually calling yourself.
Trade Network: (Adam Smiths) I think this also requires a coastal city. Could be useful if you can spare the shields.

Small Wonders:

Most useful by far in the Shrine (requires coastal city). Gives an extra shield, commerce, and food in all water tiles worked by that city. Build this as soon as possible.

The Den of Spies acts as Integlence Agency but requires Jade.

Military Academy looks normal to me.

Battlefield Medicine requires the Military Academy.

Pre Daimyo Era:
The "guns or butter" starts right away. Most of the city improvements are allowed in this era. But every unit adviable in this era can be upgraded. Note that the stone crossbow has bombardment range of 1.

At the end of the era, note that the Guizza[sp] house also acts as a factory, which greatly increases it's value.

Also note that cities can grow from 12 to 13 without the need of any structures.

In this era, your Daimyo can be upgraded to level 4. (The 4th with a dead in tech, but it's extremely popular with the AI)

Early Daimyo Era:

Y. Monks are very popular mobile defenders / Pillagers.
Almost every city wil benifit from a Habor.

Note that the Imperial Degree is a normal improvement and not a small wonder dispite it's 300 shield cost. A city that actually needs this 3rd corruption fighting structure probably can't build it in a reasonable timeframe.

On the other units, the Sam Archer is a very good when first adviable. 6/3/1 range 1 bombard, stone crossbows upgrade to it and can be further upgraded.

I don't like the Sam Spear but like the Sam Warrior. And I like the Mounted Sam Warrior better than the Mounted Archer.

The Roshi[sp?] are extremely cheap for their stats, and can be upgraded to Ninjas. Their invisibility traight may be hampered by Y Monks being adviable so much earlier, but those civs without nearby Y Monks will run into the "sub bug."

If you want to win diplomaticly instead, the War Council can be belined to easily. The usual bribing those you haven't ever been at war with who aren't eligible to vote for themselves trick applies.

In this era, your Daimyo can be upgraded to level 8. It also starts aquiring undocumented skills such as Blitz, Amp, and ignore road costs

Late Daimyo Era:

I guess if you haven't succeeded in building a GW yet, the Trade Network is your last chance.

But other than that, this era is really about finishing the upgrades with gunpower and fighting.

In this era, your Daimyo can be upgraded to level 10. It also aquires additional undocumented skills, I think it's detect invisbible and maybe stealth sttack.

Post Daimyo Era:

Sell all your archives and universities and set science to 0. And get out there and win already.

[Dis]

win by conqest.

I just built temples and barracks, and then nothing but military units and annhilated every other civ.

It helped I started at the southern end of the continent, so I didn't have to watch my back (unless one of the island civs managed to drops some troops behind my back)

[akulla]

Originally posted by Dis
win by conqest.

I just built temples and barracks, and then nothing but military units and annhilated every other civ.

It helped I started at the southern end of the continent, so I didn't have to watch my back (unless one of the island civs managed to drops some troops behind my back)

Thats the way to do it.

[Dis]

just played again recently. It just doesn't seem balanced. both times I only got about halfway through the turn limit. And had already researched nearly every tech. I was at the tech after gunpowder when I got a domination victory. The first game I did a conquest victory (and obliterated their cities). The second game I kept their cities and went for land area. Similar tactics both times.

I should note that I like to take out the nearest civs in the early game with my king unit and a couple of warrior units (can't remember the actual name). It's fairly easy to do in the early game. Though if you aren't careful you will lose your king unit. Yes I do admit to a couple reloads. This really gives you some expansion room. So that's a little bit of a cheat reloading like that. As you really shouldn't be using your King unit like that. Very dangerous. But they are size 1 or 2 cities without walls. Normally it's easy to beat any unit in the city. Including their King unit.

[Aqualung71]

This is a great scenario to play via PBEM

[Addled Platypus]

and as a demo game

[joncnunn]

I wouldn't say it's particularly imbalanced other than some flaws in AI tactics being made extremely clear.

But the number of turns you get to win seems very much on the high side.

[Commy]

Anyone every played Shogun: Total War?

[lmtoops]

What makes it easy (against the AI) is you can usually contain all wars to 1 front and 1 enemy. So you throw all your offense in one direction.

Many times, with the 2 or 3 move units, you can attack the capital directly. Of course the king is there and you win the war.

Also, agressively using your king unit in the early game is a big advantage. There are a lot of huts that can be popped. And of course you can quickly take out a neighboring civ.

It is definitely a fun scenerio.

[akulla]

Originally posted by lmtoops
What makes it easy (against the AI) is you can usually contain all wars to 1 front and 1 enemy. So you throw all your offense in one direction.

Many times, with the 2 or 3 move units, you can attack the capital directly. Of course the king is there and you win the war.

Also, agressively using your king unit in the early game is a big advantage. There are a lot of huts that can be popped. And of course you can quickly take out a neighboring civ.

It is definitely a fun scenerio.

Interesting.

[akulla]

[wertyu70]

In your opinion, which is the best "civ" to choose in this scenario?

[jatf]

Mori for sure. Plenty of expansion room before meeting other AI. Resources & Luxuries all close by. Downside is capital can't build the shrine small wonder.

JATF

[joncnunn]

I'd say the Takeda start myself, well shift one tile off the grassland + shield to a tile that's both along the river and the coast.

You don't need to found many cities at all from there to get all resources and several luxaries. All the rivers there make it extremely valuable core land.

There's an old thread in the C3DG forum with screenshots of all normally human playable starting locations from the now finished Japan succession game that was played there.