colonization and the reformation

[lord of the mark]

Well know that im playing england another issue has come up. lets say its 1500, and i know that im likely to go Protestant eventually, either by religion switch or by event. Does it make sense to establish colonial cities before doing so? I mean they wont automatically convert from Catholicism, but if i wait till after the conversion, i get Protestant colonial cites, right? The Reformation event will only effect provinces in europe right? Even if England is holding catholic provinces in historically english areas - say Massachusetts, for ex - those provinces will stay Catholic, right? And during the John Calvin event as well?

Similarly, if i conquer a pagan province, i dont want to convert it till after i convert, right? If i convert it now, it becomes Catholic, and i will have to convert it again to make it Protestant. (means its probably not worth conquering pagan provinces till after i convert)

[CerberusIV]

Historically England wasn't big on colonisation much before the 1600's and started slowly even then (take a look at England with a 1617 start to see what I mean). So if you want to roleplay history a colonisation and conquering the pagans spree isn't really on yet.

If you are playing to win then the first thing you need to do is decide what religion, Catholic/Protestant/Reformed, you will eventually settle on. All are possible and viable choices. Catholic is good for capturing provinces in war as they will mostly be the correct religion, especially overseas, but your colonies remain vulnerable to the ToT. Protestant is better for income from production and taxes and makes you immune to the ToT so you can colonise widely. Reformed is better for trade income but you have to wait longer for it. (Hint: if you choose Protestant or Reformed go Parliament in the English Civil War so you can avoid a forced religion change later).

The best time to go Protestant is by event in 1534. You will need to go Protestant in order to go Reformed later. If you decide on Reformed then do so as soon as the Calvin event fires.

For colonies the solution is not to complete them yet. I would establish 4 or 5 colonies in strategic or valuable locations and build them up to around level 5. Once you have adopted your final religion sending a colonist will change the religion of the colony, as long as the population is still below 1000. So you can complete the colonies with the correct religion at that point.

It also depends on whether you have overrun the British Isles. Scotland goes Reformed whilst Ireland stays Catholic. England goes into a 3 way split. Assuming you go Protestant the best time to do the conversions is when Elizabeth is on the throne (she is the best monarch you will get, only Cromwell is anything like as good) but leave Scotland as they will go to Anglo-Saxon culture after 1700 if you control the provinces and can be converted then - you can fully tolerate 2 religions but should try and eliminate Catholicism as a priority.

The north american pagans are best left until you have land 14. Develop colonies so you have jumping off point to attack from 2 directions then go in in the spring. Assault the fortresses immediately (the terrain favours infantry only armies anyway) and try and overrun them in a single summer - winter attrition in most of their provinces is killing so withdraw for a second campaigning season if you must.

Have fun!

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by CerberusIV

Historically England wasn't big on colonisation much before the 1600's and started slowly even then (take a look at England with a 1617 start to see what I mean). So if you want to roleplay history a colonisation and conquering the pagans spree isn't really on yet.

So far im not trying to replicate OTL (actual history) even when I roleplay. Rather I try to develope a persona compatible with the period, and subject to constraints of the period (including ones not built into the game - like having to deal with Phillip IIs obsessions, in Whither Spain) Right now im RPing England as a nationalist, with a more or less machiavellian approach to religion - at least to the choice between catholic and protestant - which i think matches the reality of Tudor political culture pretty well - i will probably rule out Reform on RP grounds, but could go either way on C or P. Now this comes a lot closer to simply playing to win - which again, I think matches the Tudors pretty well (Mary and Edward excluded of course) Although it means focusing on winning in the context of the time - EG, if ive got a war brewing over Calais, and im NOT colonizing i would tend to favor land, not go naval cause i know where i want to be in 1750.

In any case, ive already started colonizing. 4 colonies in Nova Scotia/ St Lawrence, none too close to being cities. and i took Delaware from the Lenape (we're emulating our Spanish allies

Ive also fallen into relatively "liberal" DP choices - you start that way, and the event options ive seen all seem to make sense to move further that way (free, innovative) though ive stayed high aristo. Ive moved all the way to centralization, and may use my next time to move closer to mercantilism. The royal navy event moved me as far as i want on naval.

If you are playing to win then the first thing you need to do is decide what religion, Catholic/Protestant/Reformed, you will eventually settle on. All are possible and viable choices. Catholic is good for capturing provinces in war as they will mostly be the correct religion, especially overseas, but your colonies remain vulnerable to the ToT. Protestant is better for income from production and taxes and makes you immune to the ToT so you can colonise widely. Reformed is better for trade income but you have to wait longer for it. (Hint: if you choose Protestant or Reformed go Parliament in the English Civil War so you can avoid a forced religion change later).

I was thinking protestant, simply cause the best english provinces went Protestant with the original reformation event - id rather be off religion in the poorer provinces. I can imagine Tudor statesman thinking on those line. Whereas RP means i cant anticipate John Calvin.

The best time to go Protestant is by event in 1534. You will need to go Protestant in order to go Reformed later. If you decide on Reformed then do so as soon as the Calvin event fires.

For colonies the solution is not to complete them yet. I would establish 4 or 5 colonies in strategic or valuable locations and build them up to around level 5. Once you have adopted your final religion sending a colonist will change the religion of the colony, as long as the population is still below 1000. So you can complete the colonies with the correct religion at that point.

Ok, thats what i thought.

also depends on whether you have overrun the British Isles. Scotland goes Reformed whilst Ireland stays Catholic. England goes into a 3 way split. Assuming you go Protestant the best time to do the conversions is when Elizabeth is on the throne (she is the best monarch you will get, only Cromwell is anything like as good) but leave Scotland as they will go to Anglo-Saxon culture after 1700 if you control the provinces and can be converted then - you can fully tolerate 2 religions but should try and eliminate Catholicism as a priority.

Ive got all ireland, except connaught, which eire has, Eire is my vassal. I have no Scots provinces, but have them as vassal. I know I lose the vassalization if i go protestant, but relations with scotland have declined since the Auld alliance event fired, so ive given up on my attempt to diploannex them. Money wasted there, but well, thats what happens in the devious world of 16th century politics

The north american pagans are best left until you have land 14. Develop colonies so you have jumping off point to attack from 2 directions then go in in the spring. Assault the fortresses immediately (the terrain favours infantry only armies anyway) and try and overrun them in a single summer - winter attrition in most of their provinces is killing so withdraw for a second campaigning season if you must.

Well part of the reason to attackpagans early, RP aside, is just to see how i do now that im smarter than i was in my first game - now im using a mixed cavalry-infantry force, and using assaults to finish off sieges.

Have fun!

thanks