Does Mali Deserve To Be In Civ IV?

[Xorbon]

In the thread Mali Delenda Est, there's a debate about whether Mali deserves to be in Civ IV. I'm curious how many people fall on each side of the issue. So, for the above poll, make a selection which most closely represents what you feel. The following are explanations of the above selections:

Yes, Mali is an excellent choice: You think Mali deserves to be in the game for its credentials alone.

Yes, Mali is a good representative of Africa: You think there should be a (black) African civ, and Mali should be that civ. It's a good replacement for the Zulu (who are not in the game by the way).

Yes, but then I'd like too see every civ eventually in the game: You want to see a Civ game with just about every viable civilization imaginable, so including Mali is just a small step towards that goal.

I don't care, as long as there is a "black African" civ: You want an African civ to be in the game, but you don't care which one it is.

I don't care what civilizations are included in the game: Self-explanatory

No, the Zulus should be in: You'd rather see the Zulus in the game than Mali.

No, another African civ deserves to be in the game more: An African civ (other than the Zulus) should be in the game, but it shouldn't be Mali.

No, another (non-African) civ deserves to be in the game more: Self-explanatory. Please specify which civilization(s). (If you would list more than 20 civilizations, you should probably pick the next selection below. )

No, Mali doesn't belong in Civ at all: Even if they put out expansion packs with 30 or so new civs, Mali still shouldn't be in the game.

There shouldn't be any South Pacific island civs in the game: Answer this if you know nothing about Mali, and aren't afraid to admit it.

A banana-republic should be in instead: Standard banana response.

[Xorbon]

And to start things off, I think there should be a civilization to represent "black Africa", and Mali is a good choice for that. I don't care if you label this as 'tokenism' or 'PC'. I would say the same thing about including an American civ.

By the way, I hope nobody's offended by the term "black African". I don't mean anything derogatory by it.

[Alexander I]

Maybe in an expansion pack.

[Last Conformist]

I want some modicum of geographical balance in the civ selection. And Mali is a much better representative of sub-Saharan Africa than is Zululand.

[ArchdukeNewell]

I still hold that the Ottomans deserve the spot well ahead of the Malinese.

[Vince278]

I hope Mali wasn't included as a "token" sub-saharan African civ. I voted for another African civ. Others such as ancient Ethiopia, ancient Zimbabwe, Ghana, etc. are just as worthy. Choosing the lesser known Mali struck me as odd. I know someone from Mali, if he were a Civ player I'm sure he'd be pleased.

That brings up another point. I had the impression that the civs were chosen by taking into consideration where the prospective buyers are from. My own nation, America, is very young on a Civ scale but it has lots of Civ players and buyers. Mali on the other hand probably has next to no players. I'd be willing to say that in Africa itself the majority of players are in South Africa and possibly Nigeria or Kenya. If the South Africans are the majority in Africa then that would make a case for including the Zulu (or Xhosa, Swazi, etc) instead of Mali.

[LDiCesare]

If the South Africans are the majority in Africa then that would make a case for including the Zulu (or Xhosa, Swazi, etc) instead of Mali.

For some reason, I have trouble imagining a boer playing as the Zulus...

[Sabre2th]

I voted banana because I didn't really like your choices. I would like to see Mali in for two reasons:

[list=1][*]They represent something more of a builder civ than most[*]It's nice to see a new one after the same old Civs for the last three iterations[/list=1]

[AeonOfTime]

@Sabre2th: It's nice to see a new one after the same old Civs for the last three iterations

I voted yes - I have discovered Mali culture through the Mali Delenda Est thread, and I like it. Moreover, I don't care which civs are in as long as I can have fun playing the game with them...

[asleepathewheel]

in. why not mix it up a little? Some of you people are too uptight about a computer game.

[patcon]

I'd vote for the second option, but for some reason I keep getting a message that I can't vote because of an "invalid session", whatever that means.

I guess since I live in Florida this is Apolyton's retribution for the (election) fiasco in 2000.

[Paddy]

I want a banana-republic civ to be in the game

[marcuspeddle]

I think Ethiopia should be in the game. They are mentioned in many ancient books (Herodotus, for example), traded with the Arabs and the Chinese, and were the first to cultivate coffee. If that isn't a contribution to civilisation I don't know what is.

[Harovan]

We clearly need more Mali threads.

Come on, slackers, spam away. Posts count in this forum!

As for the original question. There should be at least one tribe from each large continent (sorry Paddy, Australia is just an island in my books ). I don't give a rats ass if this is Mali, Zulu, Ethiopia or whatever for Africa. And I know one thing for sure: In Africa grows classy

[Xorbon]

Originally posted by Sabre2th
I voted banana because I didn't really like your choices. I would like to see Mali in for two reasons:

[list=1][*]They represent something more of a builder civ than most[*]It's nice to see a new one after the same old Civs for the last three iterations[/list=1]

Seeing your reasons, you could've picked the top option as well. I could've had every possible option available, but then I don't like opinion polls that have too many options. 11 options are enough.

[ZabrakMaul]

i SAY THAT bABYLON SHOULD GET IN BEFORE mALI EVER DOES!

Oops. Left the Caps Lock on!

[Last Conformist]

Babylon should be in, but let's kick some European civ instead; there's too many of those already.

[Donegeal]

-republic.

If you don't like which civs are in, CHANGE THEM!! Get over it!


PS: +1

[Alexander I]

There's only five, and each is distinct from the others. Plus other than America, those five are the places where a majority of civ games will be purchased.

England
France
Germany
Russia
Spain

Which one would you kick out? I say ditch Spain.

[Sabre2th]

Originally posted by Xorbon


Seeing your reasons, you could've picked the top option as well. I could've had every possible option available, but then I don't like opinion polls that have too many options. 11 options are enough.

I don't think they're an excellent choice or even necessarily a good choice. It's just nice to see a new Civ.

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by Alexander01
There's only five, and each is distinct from the others. Plus other than America, those five are the places where a majority of civ games will be purchased.

England
France
Germany
Russia
Spain

Which one would you kick out? I say ditch Spain.

I'd probably kick Germany.

[Spiffor]

Of these countries, Russia is obviously the one that'll have the fewer sales.

I'd actually support ditching France, Spain and Britain, in order to replace them with more ancient Civs, or civs from around the world. But the customer base in these countries would be quite furious I think.

[Alexander I]

Originally posted by Last Conformist

I'd probably kick Germany.

You're just saying that because I'm German!

[vStauffenberg]

How about this (*take deep breath*): Let's ditch America *duck*
for, America:
1. is far too young to start at 4000BC (ok, this holds for most other civs, too, but the most for america)
2. america is only eupean history part 2, anyway (*duck and RUN*)

[AeonOfTime]

I'd gladly kick any of the european civs out. I was born in germany and moved to france when I was 9, but I would buy the game even if those two were not in...

But then, if the russians are still stuck with Catherine, I would cast my vote on them without hesitation - even my pet werewolf gets the creeps when he sees her

[vStauffenberg]

just kidding

[AeonOfTime]

@vStauffenberg: Let's ditch America

I'm a supporter of bold ideas, let's ditch'em

But as you already know, unless you've got fast feet bold ideas can be quite unhealthy... heheh

[Alexander I]

Not gonna happen --

for too many reasons to list here.

[Dis]

I really don't care. It's all the same. They are just letters on a CRT screen (or LCD)

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by Alexander01


You're just saying that because I'm German!

Nein, in der Tat nicht.