Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Interesting Analysis of Loss of Support for Iraq War

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Interesting Analysis of Loss of Support for Iraq War

    This appeared in yesterday's Washington Post, and I thought I'd pass it along. The basic argument is that support for the Iraqi War has evaporated precisely because there's no large anti-war movement in the US -- which means the Bushies don't have a domestic strawman on which to fix their typical "with us or against us," "they hate America" rhetoric.

    No One to Demonize

    By Harold Meyerson
    Post
    Wednesday, June 22, 2005; A21

    In the absence of an antiwar movement, the American people have turned against the war in Iraq. Those two facts, I suspect, are connected.

    There was a very real antiwar movement early on. In the months before, during and immediately after our invasion, hundreds of thousands of Americans took to the streets to oppose the intervention. Then chaos, followed by insurgency, enveloped Iraq, and the need for a constable to restore some order became indisputable. Those who had opposed the war -- this columnist included -- argued that the occupation would be less of a lightning rod if conducted by an international force under U.N. aegis. But the Bush administration insisted on U.S. control (a decision that grows less explicable with each passing day), and other nations with real armies made clear that they wanted no part of what was becoming a bloody occupation.

    Confronted with a choice between U.S. occupation and chaos, millions of Americans -- chiefly liberals and Democrats -- who'd been against the war decided to give occupation a chance. In the streets, demonstrations dwindled; in Congress, Democrats (save for a handful) did not call for withdrawal. With unprecedented discipline, Democrats who had opposed the war lined up behind the candidacy of John Kerry, whose position on the war was muddled at best. The question of the occupation fell off the liberal agenda. At the Take Back America conference, a national gathering of liberals held this month, the issue barely came up at all.

    In Iraq, however, the situation clarified. What had looked like a choice between occupation and mayhem was something even grimmer: The mayhem proceeds, and will proceed, occupation or no. It will doubtless grow worse if we pull up stakes, but our presence has failed to guarantee stability in politics or daily life. More than two years after Saddam Hussein's statue was toppled, the drive from downtown Baghdad to the airport is still a crapshoot with death.

    Absent a discernible trajectory of progress, the American people are giving up on the occupation. In last week's CBS News/New York Times poll, 59 percent of respondents said the war was going badly, and just 37 percent approved of President Bush's handling of Iraq. A Gallup poll showed six in 10 Americans favoring full or partial withdrawal of U.S. forces.

    These figures already match the polling in the middle and late years of the war in Vietnam -- even though that war was fought with vastly higher casualties and a conscript army. In a series of polls taken in November and December of 1969, the Gallup Organization found that 49 percent of Americans favored a withdrawal of U.S. forces and 78 percent believed that the Nixon administration's rate of withdrawal was "too slow." But there was one other crucial finding: 77 percent disapproved of the antiwar demonstrations, which were then at their height.

    That disapproval was key to Nixon's political strategy. He didn't so much defend the war as attack its critics, making common cause with what he termed the "silent majority" against a mainstream movement with a large, raucous and sometimes senseless fringe. When Nixon won reelection in a landslide, it was clear that the strategy had worked -- and it has been fundamental Republican strategy ever since. Though the public sides with the Democrats on more key issues than it does with Republicans, it's Republicans who have won more elections, in good measure because the GOP has raised its ad hominem attacks on Democrats' character and patriotism to a science.

    Which is why, however perverse this may sound, the absence of an antiwar movement is proving to be a huge political problem for the Bush administration, and why the Republicans are reduced to trying to turn Dick Durbin, who criticized our policies at Guantanamo Bay, into some enemy of the people. The administration has no one to demonize. With nobody blocking the troop trains, military recruitment is collapsing of its own accord. With nobody in the streets, the occupation is being judged on its own merits.

    Unable to distract people from his own performance, Bush is tanking in the polls. And with congressional Democrats at least partly muting their opposition to an open-ended occupation, it's Bush's fellow Republicans -- most prominently, North Carolina's Walter Jones -- who are now calling our policy into question.

    The lesson here for liberals and Democrats is not that they should shun oppositional politics -- after all, they confronted Bush head-on over Social Security and prevailed. My hunch is that candidates in the 2006 elections -- not to mention, 2008 -- who call for putting a date on U.S. withdrawal from Iraq will be rewarded at the ballot box. But it will probably help such candidates, and certainly confound the Bu****es, if antiwar activists forget about the streets and focus on the polls.

    meyersonh@washpost.com

    © 2005 The Washington Post Company
    In the absence of an antiwar movement, the American people have turned against the war in Iraq. Those two facts, I suspect, are connected.


    If accurate, this would give lie to the arguments of those folks -- like, say, Ned -- who keep arguing that criticizing the war is hurting teh war effort. The Bushies seem to be being hoisted by their own petards, and the American people seem to see that clearly.
    "I have as much authority as the pope. I just don't have as many people who believe it." — George Carlin

  • #2
    If you're hoping to engage Ned, he ran away crying when no one voted for him in the HoF.

    And I don't know about the premise of the article. Who's to say that antiwar sentiment among the public wouldn't be just as higher, if not higher were protests going as strong as ever? No way to tell.
    Tutto nel mondo è burla

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Boris Godunov
      If you're hoping to engage Ned, he ran away crying when no one voted for him in the HoF.

      And I don't know about the premise of the article. Who's to say that antiwar sentiment among the public wouldn't be just as higher, if not higher were protests going as strong as ever? No way to tell.
      Very true. One point of comparison, though, could be the Seattle WTO protests. Opinion polls at the time tended to show that a majority of Americans shared the general view of the protesters; but the protests themselves allowed all anti-globalization sentiments to be tarred with the brush of know-nothing anarchism. The result was a rhetoic that said, basically, "You would never riot in teh streets and throw rocks through a plate glass window, right? So you must support gloablization like us, and not oppose it like those freaks." This has been surprisingly effective.
      "I have as much authority as the pope. I just don't have as many people who believe it." — George Carlin

      Comment


      • #4
        I personally believe shrub lied to everyone, that he knew he was lying, and that he did so in order to push a personal vendetta against Saddam and nothing else. That doesn't mean knocking off Saddam wasn't a good thing to do but there are an aweful lot of dictators which need knocking off yet Bush doesn't care about any of those, now does he? With each of the Downing street memos (and there are dozens of them which have been exposed) it becomes clearer and clearer what a lying sack of dog ****e George Bush is.

        The bottom line is the American people no longer support the war in Iraq. I'm sorry that this will end badly and that there is no graceful exit because the Republicans who demanded war were so arrogant they wouldn't listen to anyone who spoke rationally about developing an exist strategy. I truly hope the Republican party is punished at the ballot box for what can only be seen as their personal failure and their personal arrogance.
        Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

        Comment


        • #5
          Oerdin,

          I couldn't have summed it up better myself. Perfect explanation. It's really as clear as day. I don't know why people continue to debate or justify, when there really is no doubt as to what happened.

          Certainly the quote, "He tried to kill my father," says it all really.

          The $177 million dollar a day personal score.
          We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham Lincoln

          Comment


          • #6
            There is merit to the spirit of the article though.

            Cheney and Bush jumped all over recent comments.

            I laughed my head off when Cheney said he was "offended" by the Gulag comment. That and I wanted to punch him in the face.

            Then Bush comes back talking about the analysis Amnesty International gave about Guantanamo, saying, "they hate America." I mean those were his exact words and the worst self-parody I've ever seen.


            Let this go down in history as the LAST time we ever support a stupid war. (Yeah right).
            We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham Lincoln

            Comment


            • #7
              Another point is that the Bushies have to actually talk about the war, instead of people opposing the war or libruls or anything but the war.

              If they're upbeat in their pronouncements, they look clueless in view of the random carnage and lack of control. If they're negative, that hits home and they get hammered for that.
              When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all. | Trump-Palin 2016. "You're fired." "I quit."

              Comment


              • #8
                I get the impression that the war in Iraq is going just the way the Americans want it. Sure its a tough slog and out of control in certain regions. But I hardly hear of Americans dying over there. Just how many US soldiers are dying over there on a regular basis, does anybody know. Very few I think. This low mortality rate among US troops really helps with PR at home. It seems the Iraq police and military are taking the main hits when it comes to deaths. Also it seems like the US and Iraq forces are searching for and finding insurgents all the time. Is there an endless stream of these insurgents? Everytime they engage the US forces they lose alot of their men. I think its going to take a few more months but I think once the Iraq military and police get stronger, your going to see less US ground troops. But I bet the US keeps a base there for years to come.

                Seems to be alot of action these days in Afghanistan between insurgents and US forces.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Max, my unsolicited advice is to leave em alone when they're Bush bashing and policy hating. Eventually they have a group liberal orgasm of sorts and the thread then dies and goes away and I picture them puffing on a smoke fully satisfied with themselves. Which is good I suppose, I really like these guys and nothing said here really means anything anyway.

                  Long time member @ Apolyton
                  Civilization player since the dawn of time

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The problem is that even if you're against the war how could you be in favor of the insurgency? I mean, my God, they're taking up where Saddam left off in the genocide department. We're stuck. If we stay the insurgency will linger on, but if we leave it appears certain that there will be a Sunni - Shiite bloodbath. In the end I can't find a reason to wish Sunni tyranny upon the Kurds and Shiites of Iraq.
                    "I say shoot'em all and let God sort it out in the end!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Funny how the same people who screeched that the anti-Soddom
                      war was the best thing ever are now the same people who now hate it!

                      Hilarious.

                      http://sleague.apolyton.net/index.php?title=Home
                      http://totalfear.blogspot.com/

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The poll numbers on Iraq went down during the crisis of April 2004 (the first battle of Fallujah and the Sadr intifada) went up when things quieted down over the summer, went down in the fall when it became clear that Fallujah and other parts of the SUnni triangle were in insurgent control, went back up after the Jan 30 election in Iraq, and have since gone down with the post April revival of terror bombings in Baghdad. The poll numbers depend on events in Iraq.


                        The best approach in managing expectations would be to prepare the people for a long hard slog, while being positive about the long term results. The policy of proclaiming the insurgency in its death throes has NO advantages to the war in Iraq. I presume it (the optimistic pronouncements) was chosen for purely domestic reasons, to gain a boost during heated disputes in congress on domestic issues.

                        If you listened to John McCain on the talk shows this past weekend, you got a good sense of how the war SHOULD be explained to the American people.
                        "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Max Webster
                          I get the impression that the war in Iraq is going just the way the Americans want it. Sure its a tough slog and out of control in certain regions. But I hardly hear of Americans dying over there. Just how many US soldiers are dying over there on a regular basis, does anybody know.
                          50 or so this month, more than 1700 overall.
                          When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all. | Trump-Palin 2016. "You're fired." "I quit."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The poll numbers on Iraq went down during the crisis of April 2004 (the first battle of Fallujah and the Sadr intifada) went up when things quieted down over the summer
                            Don't forget Abu Ghraib breaking.
                            "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                            -Bokonon

                            Comment


                            • #15

                              "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                              -Bokonon

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X