Arafat honored

[Pax]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4597551.stm

[Winston]

Did they also say which venereal disease he died from?

I think it's highly mysterious that a key political figure dies and nobody knows the cause of death. And nobody even brings it up. Something's fishy.

[Bereta_Eder]

Businessmen in El Salvador have sparked a diplomatic row with Israel after renaming a city square in honour of late Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat.

In san salvador?!?! and israel is protesting??? and then they talk about fyrom

[Tassadar500]

I knew Israel's friendship with El Savador would stop sooner or later.

[chequita guevara]

Given the help that Israel gave to the right wing military dictatorships of Central America (in spite of their blatent anti-Semitisim and respect of Hitler), I would expect more snubs in the face to Israel from the newly emerging demcoracies, along the lines of the anti-CIA mural in the Equadoran congress.

[Wezil]

Originally posted by Winston
Did they also say which venereal disease he died from?

He had most of them. Pick one.

[Space05us]

Last year, the same businessmen dedicated Palestine Square in the city, and unveiled a map that placed Israel inside a larger country of Palestine.

[MarkG]

do we have a copy of that map?

[Az]

It's near the map of greater turkey.

[MarkG]

are you implying that turkey wants a great palestinian country?

[Az]

It already had the same land at one time. You know, back at the time when it had it's western lands.

[MarkG]

we also had that land at one time, and some more actually all the way to india....

[Kuciwalker]

No no no, you were a province in the Macedonian empire

[MarkG]

you forget that I AM a Macedonian, Son of Emperors, Grand Lord of Apolyton, Owner of all this land as far as the eye can see....

[lord of the mark]

I dont give a damn what statues they put up. Richmond, Virginia has a statue to Jeff Davis. This doesnt bother me any more than that one does. The Israeli ambassador should focus on trade opportunities, instead.

[Slaughtermeyer]

Originally posted by Winston
I think it's highly mysterious that a key political figure dies and nobody knows the cause of death. And nobody even brings it up. Something's fishy.

I think something far more mysterious and fishy is Mrs. Arafat's connection with Pierre Rizk, who headed the Phalangist intelligence service during the Lebanese civil war and was in close personal contact with the guerrilla group which carried out the massacre of hundreds of Palestinians at the Sabra and Shatilla refugee camp in 1982, and reportedly was sentenced to death for his collaboration with Israel:
http://web.israelinsider.com/Article...omacy/4369.htm

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by MarkG
you forget that I AM a Macedonian,

Exactly. You aren't Greek.

[MarkG]

what you cant tell me what i am and what i'm not. only i can say what i am

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Given the help that Israel gave to the right wing military dictatorships of Central America (in spite of their blatent anti-Semitisim and respect of Hitler), I would expect more snubs in the face to Israel from the newly emerging demcoracies, along the lines of the anti-CIA mural in the Equadoran congress.

Given the fact Israel practically signed a "weapons for jews" trade pact to save jews from being slaughtered, I would honour Israeli activism to help jews.

[atawa]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov

Given the fact Israel practically signed a "weapons for jews" trade pact to save jews from being slaughtered, I would honour Israeli activism to help jews.

Tell that to the people those weapons were used on

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by atawa


Tell that to the people those weapons were used on

"We sold all your asses, to save our relatives and nationals".

No problem. And I'd do it again.

Who'd you save? Your brother, or 5 other innocent people?
Call me a bastard, but I'd screw over the innocent people...

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Given the help that Israel gave to the right wing military dictatorships of Central America (in spite of their blatent anti-Semitisim and respect of Hitler), I would expect more snubs in the face to Israel from the newly emerging demcoracies, along the lines of the anti-CIA mural in the Equadoran congress.

except El Salvador last year elected an ARENA pol as president with 58% of the vote, so it seems the democratic electorates arent even snubbing the folks who ran the "military dictatorships", let alone those who sold them weapons.

[Ramo]

Because Salvadorans were afraid of losing their remittances from cuts in immigration to the US if they voted against said thugs.

[dannubis]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov


"We sold all your asses, to save our relatives and nationals".

No problem. And I'd do it again.

Who'd you save? Your brother, or 5 other innocent people?
Call me a bastard, but I'd screw over the innocent people...

if it were actally your brother, i would shut up. if 'brother' is meant in the more general sence, i would call you a racist bastard who hasn't learned a thing from the past.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Ramo
Because Salvadorans were afraid of losing their remittances from cuts in immigration to the US if they voted against said thugs.

Cite, please?

Nm = I see Joe Rubin, in a frontline doc for PBS (In a frankly one sided documentary), cites an add Arena did. No evidence that the ad was believed, or that it decided the election. Or that similar tactics were used in ARENA's prior electoral victories.

Its also not credible. (heck, in the past having a leftwing govt in power made it EASIER for Cental Americans to get asylum)

I also note that BBC, in its post election piece, did not mention the ad.

[Ramo]

http://www.cis-elsalvador.org/electi...eport2004.htm.

Explicit threats from American politicians:

Dan Burton, US Congressman from Indiana:

If the communist candidate of the FMLN assumes the presidency of El Salvador, it could very well be necessary for the United Status to reconsider our relationship with El Salvador, the prolongation of TPS and our current support for the sending of their remittances to their country.[71]



Thomas Tancredo, US Congressman from Colorado:

It could be necessary for the American authorities to examine very carefully and possibly apply controls to the flow of $2 billion of remittances... unfortunately, to the detriment of many people who live in El Salvador… If the FMLN controls the Salvadoran government after the March 2004 Presidential Elections, it could mean a radical change in US policy regarding the essentially free flow of remittances from Salvadorans living in the US to El Salvador.

Implicit threats:

Otto Reich, Special Envoy to the Western Hemisphere for the White House:

We are concerned about the impact that an FMLN victory could have on the commercial, economic and migration-related relations of the US with El Salvador. [65]
bullet

We could not have the same confidence in an El Salvador led by a person who is obviously an admirer of Fidel Castro and of Hugo Chavez… The United States would be fully justified in revising aspects related to a bilateral diplomatic relationship.

Douglas Barclay, US Ambassador to El Salvador:
bullet

…the United Status is going to determine the type of support and relations according to what the elected candidate decides.

And you have Noriega with similar sorts of statements.

Then ARENA and the Salvadoran media ran with these threats:

La Prensa Gráfica and El Diario de Hoy emphasized the message coming from the US government in their editorials. For example, and editorial in El Diario de Hoy spoke of the FMLN’s supposed “poor relations with the US,” that the FMLN “would create problems for our relatives in the US,” and that “they would manage, in different ways, a reduction of family remittances.”[77]



Another editorial in El Diario de Hoy was titled “Remittances from the US Running Serious Risk” and repeated the comments made by Thomas Tancredo.



Salvadoran Government officials (from the ruling ARENA party) and the ARENA candidate Tony Saca also used the US comments to their advantage. Francisco Flores, the President of El Salvador, made comments to the press on June 6, just two days after those of Rose Likins:



We will have no more migration protection from abroad, we will not be able to protect [immigrants], they will be deported. How many families are not going to receive their remittances? An important source of the economy will be lost. We are talking about immense risks for the country… Investors are nervous. I know many projects that are being delayed, people saying, ‘I’m not going to invest while this is not defined.’ The first effect is in the investor and that affects jobs.[79]



Flores was reported as being “worried for the future of remittances because of the comments of Tancredo, Burton, Rohrabacker.” [80]



René León, the Salvadoran Ambassador in Washington DC, reacted to Tancredo’s comments about TPS, saying that "[US] Legislators threaten the continuation of TPS."[81] He also commented on the other statements from US officials:



This is not an invention and we have not provoked these warnings, this is a signal being emitted from Washington, emitted from Congress and we look at this signal with concern.[82]



Tony Saca, the ARENA presidential candidate, met with Congresspersons Tom Davis, Kevin Brady, Mario Díaz-Balart, Jerry Weller and later with Pardo-Maurer, Deputy Defense Secretary for Western Hemisphere Affairs, after which he told the press, "Today I would receive another blessing, but from Dan Fisk."[83] He also said that:



…of course they want the next government to be a government that believes in democracy, liberties, openness and free trade.[84]



The ARENA party also emphasized the threats of the US Government in its campaign advertisements. Some of this propaganda was published in US papers, in areas where many Salvadorans live. The Houston Chronicle, of Houston, Texas, carried an ad asking Salvadorans to tell their family members back home to vote for ARENA so that they would continue to be able to send home remittances.



Women for Freedom (Mujeres por la Libertad), a group that placed a large number of anti-FMLN propaganda in the Salvadoran newspapers, quoted Roger Noriega, Daniel Fisk, and Rose Likins in one of their ads and also noted that, “some Salvadoran brothers do not realize the catastrophe and the chaos that… would result from a Presidency… with Schafik Handal.”[85] It is very interesting that the US Embassy did not condemn the use of direct quotes by Women for Freedom as it condemned the FMLN’s use of a photo of the Ambassador shaking hands with Shafik.

[lord of the mark]

The Guardian '
'Mr Handal, 73, accused Mr Saca of resorting to "lies, fear and blackmail" to win the election, and vowed to oppose the US-Salvador trade agreement.

He was depicted by his opponents as an unreconstructed leftwinger who would turn the country into a version of Sandinista-era Nicaragua.

Arena was lent help by the architect of US policy in the region, Otto Reich. In in interview last week for Salvadorean radio, he said: "We [the US government] could not have the same confidence in an El Salvador led by a person who is obviously an admirer of Fidel Castro and of [Venezuelan president] Hugo Chávez."

The defeat is a disaster for the FMLN, which beat the ruling party in municipal elections last year. It fought against the government in the country's 12-year civil war, in which 75,000 people died.

Arena - the Republican National Alliance - has ruled since 1989, winning four elections. It is one of the closest allies of the US in the region and has troops in Iraq. '


Mr. Reich's statement was true.

Even the Guardian acknowledges, as Rubin does not, that the ARENA has won several times in a row. But if the opposition leader says the election was won on lies and fear, I guess we must believe him.

[Ramo]

Its also not credible. (heck, in the past having a leftwing govt in power made it EASIER for Cental Americans to get asylum)

That's absurd. Barring Cuba, asylum seekers make up a miniscule portion of Central American immigrants (if you want to say that Cuba's Central American...).

And I'm curious, has there been any substantial change in policy wrt, say, Venezuelan asylum seekers?

[lord of the mark]

1. A couple of right wing congressmen is not credible. Changing the law would be difficult.
2. The comments from Reich, etc, saying an FMLN victory would effect relations with the US are frankly true. One didnt need to hear them say it to know it. Just as the ARENA victory probably hasnt helped relations with Cuba and Venezuala.
3. Of course people who wanted ARENA said he would help relations with the US. Just as advocates for Kerry said that his election would improve US relations with the rest of the world. Nonetheless ARENA was winning elections in El Salvador back when Clinton was President in the US, and Otto Reich was in the private sector.

In any case, Guevs comment re Israel suggested a mass revulsion against the former right wing rulers - such that it would extend to anyone who provided support - I cant beleive folks who felt such revulsion wouldnt vote against ARENA despite a remittance issue.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Ramo

Its also not credible. (heck, in the past having a leftwing govt in power made it EASIER for Cental Americans to get asylum)

That's absurd. Barring Cuba, asylum seekers make up a miniscule portion of Central American immigrants (if you want to say that Cuba's Central American...).

IIRC when the Sandinistas were in power in the '80s , Nicaraguans were granted asylum. Thats the last leftist dictatorship in Central America.