How does the Source Code Project relate to the mods?

Andre · May 18, 2005, 05:34

Hi!

As pointed out in the FAQ of the Source Code Project, Ctp2 is junk as it was boxed.

This project should change this and I downloaded the latest build and it runs stable.

But since I played only the Apolyton-Mod lately I cannot tell too many differences from the Source Code Project build and the original Ctp. This may sound harsh but has a simple cause: The Apolyton Mod make CTP a totally different game, both from the original Ctp and the SCP build.

So could somebody tell me differences between the original build and the SCP build? I mean, what basic game principals (unit stats, advances, governments, tech tree, and so on) have been changed? I do not care about slight adjustments in some probability factors if I get new tech when I enter a ruin, but about fundamental changes like they have been incorporated in the Apolyton Mod.

Or is it the case that the SCP only cares about making the game more stable, change all the typos in the Great Library and prepare it for new and better mods?

And:
How does the game work if I install the Apolyton Mod over the SCP build?

Does this work?

Is there a risk of gettings unpredictable results in some cases or is this just the way I should do it?

??

Comments greatly appreciated,

Andre

J Bytheway · May 18, 2005, 08:58

Originally posted by Andre
Or is it the case that the SCP only cares about making the game more stable, change all the typos in the Great Library and prepare it for new and better mods?

That is indeed our primary goal. Implementing new gameplay in the same way mods do is better done by mods - there are very few such changes we can agree on, so they don't fit well into a community project setting. Mods are better written by individuals (see what has been done by stankarp in AOM).

So could somebody tell me differences between the original build and the SCP build?

Not many of the fundamental changes you seem interested in, but the readme of the playtest does contain a summary of the changes which the user might be interested in. Focus on those labeled "Changed:" or "Added:", rather than "Fixed:", to see the more dramatic differences.

And:
How does the game work if I install the Apolyton Mod over the SCP build?

Does this work?

Is there a risk of gettings unpredictable results in some cases or is this just the way I should do it?

It should work - we have tried to maintain backwards compatibility (with mixed results). The worst problem in this regard is that some SLIC constructs no longer work as they used to, which may break some features.

Please feel free to try it, and, if you encounter problems, we will do our best to fix them, bearing in mind that it is not really our job to maintain the Apolyton Pack.

Andre · May 18, 2005, 09:20

J,

thanks you for your answer.

I'm excited about the project, I whish you all the best!

Solver · May 18, 2005, 12:17

I have been playing with the Apolyton Pack and GoodMod with the Source Code build and not had a single problem. Generally, mods should work.

demon59 · May 18, 2005, 12:58

The only problem I ever had using a mod with the Playtest Build was trying to play Cradle and finding that it took an insanely high number of caravans to create a trade route. I assumed that the formulas used to calculate such things had been changed in the Playtest Build (possibly because of the increased map sizes available), thereby throwing the mods out of whack. Has this problem been seen by anyone else, or was it just a fluke experienced only by me?

Ekmek · May 18, 2005, 13:07

I got around the huge caravan costs by changing the Caravan shield cost in the units.txt. (I made it 50 I think)

Martin Gühmann · May 18, 2005, 13:17

No, the Caravan thing worked in mods as well, you guys just forgot to change the CarvanCoeffiecent in const.txt. Fortunatly for you that I moved this modification into the *.exe so that you can't forget anything anymore.

-Martin

Andre · May 19, 2005, 01:19

OK, so mods should work. I hope I will get AOM next week, so I can test it out then.

Thank you!

Andre · May 19, 2005, 01:46

Ah, new information from Stan, the author of Ages Of Man http://www.interwebgames.com.au/aomf...topic.php?t=56

Q.
How does AOM work with the Source Code Project Build from Apolyton?

A. It does not at this stage. The source code is on the un patched version of ctp2, the patch amongst other things, finished some slic functions.

AOM is written entirely in external slic code and tweaks to the text files, so my information is it will not work on the source code build.

One programmer is trying to debug it and get it to work. But have no idea how long and if it will work.

Martin Gühmann · May 19, 2005, 18:46

A. It does not at this stage. The source code is on the un patched version of ctp2, the patch amongst other things, finished some slic functions.

To be precise we are rather patched than unpatched.

Well and actual the missing feature doesn't really work in the original version.

-Martin

SithUK · July 13, 2005, 14:57

Hi guys,

Impressed with your continuing efforts to fix Ctp2.

Is the Ages Of Man mod compatible with the source code project yet? Is this something which is being prioritised?

I'm sure many are like me in so far as AOM has made me buy Ctp2 to play it :-) I'd like to get the stability introduced by your efforts and also get rid of the goodie hut slowdown which I hear you've sorted too.

Thanks,

Sithuk

Protra3211 · August 5, 2005, 17:48

Playing the latest playtest. Sometimes before I start a new game will tweak numbers in DIff file to help AI produce units -buildings... ect. Oher things such as map size and values to produce a better map. To help AI army movement I change the Patrol Goal value to 39000 this seems to help the AI build a projected defence force that blocks you from a easy attack of any of the AI cities.

stankarp · August 12, 2005, 19:16

Like to make a comment as well as wish the source code team well in finishing the project.

I discussed ctp2/cradle and other mods extensively with David Sobotka. Together we made up a list of things that needed to be done to make a new mod challenging, ie, not the pushover that ctp2 was. Cradle used the technique of given the AI a big start, but once you got to 25 cities, you just ground your way to victory like all games of this genre. Something I thought was unrealistic and not historical.

stankarp · August 12, 2005, 19:34

Edit (hit submit instead of post reply, reliased that this was going to be longer than I thought).

We made up the list which was basically about making the AI perform better in terms of building, building more cities, and most importantly, attacking better.

Using cradle as a base I had started fleshing it out 27 months ago. The more I learnt about SLIC, the more I realised how much you could do with it.

Initially it was just a bigger cradle then I made a new list of historical features I would like to put in, a list of my pet hates about civ 3 and ctp2, and the idea of historical scripted events. The last one being to make it a little historical but to also add a little bit of mid term pressure to the mix. To get away from get to 20 odd cities and grind your way to victory process.

Anyway, I found that virtually everything could be done in SLIC. While this does not solve problems in the original source code, having no knowledge of c++, I was only interested in how the final version played, ie, relatively bug free and a challenge.

People who know CTP2 and the mods will be surpirsed I think how everything meshed together. At least one AI has got to about 50 cities in many of my games, built armies up to 800 units, and when provoked, sent 2-3 stacks of 12 units to attack the human at times. It also attacks other ai well and likes killing barbarians. In my current game, turn 400, the Dutch (player 3) have 42 cities, 554 units, have captured 8 cities off the Phoenecians and Turks and are on the same level as me tech wise.