How Many Factions Should There Be?

[Commy]

Perhaps when bases revolt, instead of going to another faction, they become their own, randomly choosen from a list of like 40 subfactions...

[Fosse]

Commy, that's a great idea! Make revolts more common, and watch the map splinter into the Big (Original 7) factions with lots of offshoots springing up (new 5, plus possible others).

It makes more sense than a base switching allegiences to another, totally different faction halfway across the globe, and it'd add spice. Plus... nothing comes close to the Original 7. Even the AX 5 are mostly justified as offshoots of the first ones, or responding to Planet events, making it weird to start the game with them.

This is a fun game-play idea because you automatically have 7 big factions, and then you can play political games with, or just work to conquer, the offshoots. (Revolts would have to be more common... but if it's well integrated (not totally random) that wouldn't have to be a bad thing).

There could be Council votes to recognize offshoots, Coucil votes to return offshoot bases to the mother country (which may or may not be cooperated with!), and all sorts of neat stuff.

It makes more sense than a map starting with four versions of Morgan with slightly different flavors, anyhow.

Just musing...

[H.Humpel]

And you don't even have to use a revolution (revolt) on this one... just if the civ gets too big and has - let's say - a penalty in support.... there you go.
But if you put in some kind of Sub-Factions which will be chosen for the new "state", then you should have their leader in the game before the seperation takes place. Maybe this is another good feature: having "leaders" in your civ which may help you in the beginning with their personality/special abilities (like Generals etc. in other games), but if the game moves on, they may get your biggest opponent in holding the state together...

[MysticWind]

The revolt/parties within factions idea is cool, but I was wondering... are there any more really original faction ideas? Like what kind of ideologies they represent? Usually the stuff I find on networknode.org features magic users or new aliens or robots... no truly new ideologies or anything like the guys in SMAC and SMAX.

[Brent]

Lular: The Usurpers are Revolting!

Good idea. But could there be some way to play as one of these subfactions? What would be the nature of the subfactions: weakened versions of the parent faction's stats? cross between the parent and any other faction in particular? Would a breakoff ever be a SMACX faction? What are the chances of a breakoff surviving long or winning the game? Votes to recognize offshoots I like, but not sure about the possibility mentioned after that. I like the idea of advisors with abilities, who split off. I wouldn't mind too much if the game resorts to magic. A robot faction is a thought. Maybe splitoffs would just be drone versions of the other factions. Maybe midgame a group of native lifeforms could somehow turn into a faction.

[H.Humpel]

Well, one of the reasons you can't find more of these "original" factions may be because of the parameters given to modify/build a faction. With the parameters given by ACAX it is really hard (almost impossible) to build something new that is "completely different" AND intelligent/reasonable. I guess that the parameters were defined after the basic ideas of the (7 SMAC) factions were set and not vice versa.
On the other hand it is hard to think of other human based themed factions in "real life"... isn't it ?!
Unfortunately - even though this is one of the best things of SMAC - it is very very well planned regarding "the near future". It is still SF, but not that way-out crazy

[Fosse]

Brent: I imagined that the game would start (normally) with the Original 7. Then, a base revolt would form a similar faction (Gaia begets Cult) or an opposition (Morgan begets Hive).

There could be a list of whatever number of factions that could be created, and they would be tinkered with in the SE tables just like any homemade faction. Or, the game could randomly generate a +1 somwhere on the table and -1 somehwere else, as compared to the Parent faction.

And I agree about the lack of "new" factions. Even the SMAX 5 were pretty silly if you want them to be around at PlanetFall (though some make lots of sense a few dozen turns after... which the idea we're tossing around would enable).

Really, I haven't thought these ideas through... they're just fun to toss around and think about at work!

Splinter factions could be designed to happen to the #1 player most, but that might be dangerous since lots of players resent being punished for winning... but if it was done well it could be a lot more elegant than corruption. If the empire falls apart because it's too big to manage, instead of just "too big" by the rules, then it makes sense... you can fight to keep a big sprawler together, or work with an ultra efficient tiny state, or strike the balance...

One day, folks... someone will make a game that learns from SMAC/AX. A spiritual sequel, if not a real one.
*sigh*

[Brent]

Do the Pirates make sense at Planetfall?

Doesn't GalCiv2 basically have a unit workshop?

[waab]

About subfactions, I think that the leaders of subfractions could be strengthen from factions that want to break you.

Ex: Yang dislike Lai and therfore give support to X leader of the Y party. This will of course cost resources (money production and so fort) for Yang. The splinter fraction would have the same idiology as Yang.

There should also be a "random" chance for rebellion under your and other factions rule. Bases that starve, low effecient, and a bad runed econmoy should cause splinter factions to ocur.

Well better speling this time I guess. My first post did try to get this facts out...

[H.Humpel]

About subfactions, I think that the leaders of subfractions could be strengthen from factions that want to break you.

That's a great idea! This will open a wide range of diplomatic features. It's a bit like the good old "Balance of Power"
Implementing some kind of sub-factions can be done by "subleaders" within the faction. I'm not that good in issues of history, but as far as I know even (most of) the greatest leaders had their own and well-known "helpers", didn't they? So these "helpers" could/should be part of the starting faction, maybe with their own/different interests and point of views regarding the factions goals.
If there is a way to introduce something like ministers in ACAX you can set in place (as soon as you have the prerequired techs and maybe a "building" like e.g. a "Palace of Justice" for a Ministry of Justice and its Minister of Justice) with some kind of bonus depending of the subleader you put in charge....
This way you may be able to get theses subleaders into the game and another twist in optimising your state with its upcoming chances of seperation.
Just a quick idea...

[Brent]

Should you be able to choose which advisors you have? There probably wouldn't be enough choices for that. But you could rank them, and only some or one of them would add to your faction's abilities. Or maybe there would be enough choices to choose advisors. There could be several categories, and choices in each category that treat the realm of the category differently.

[H.Humpel]

I'd say there should be e.g. 10 subleaders for 5 ministers or so.
Or even better: there are 10 leaders and you may even choose your "main-leader" you are playing from the beginning (and this cannot be changed anymore) and use the rest during the game for the ministers . Even firing/exchanging during game may be an option. Maybe including diplomatic consequences, e.g. you're Gaian and your "more knowledge driven" Secretary of Education is being exchanged as an upcoming seperation arises. But this subleader had a very good relation built up with the University, so your diplomatic relation to the University will suffer, too.
Complexity rising ...

[Brent]

Maybe there's say ten choices, each with their own view on every subject, and you choose who to put in each of five positions out of those ten total.

[H.Humpel]

Originally posted by Brent
Maybe there's say ten choices, each with their own view on every subject, and you choose who to put in each of five positions out of those ten total.

That's basically what I meant to say

I'd say there should be e.g. 10 subleaders for 5 ministers or so.

[Commy]

I always thought they should add this to civ...but I'm more dedicated to SMAX, civ just gets...boring...no idealogies, pretty much every game is the same...