Reply With QuoteSell out. Oh, yee of little faith.
as a protestant.
So what should I do?
My confirmation will be tonight at the Easter vigil, where I will be getting both confirmed and taking my first communion.
I've been looking forward to this day for some time now, and working towards this over the last three years.
I might not have been sure where I would end up, but I am happy with where this has taken me.
Scouse Git (2) LaFayette Adam Smith and Solomwi you will be missed
"Learning carries within itself certain dangers because out of necessity one has to learn from one's enemies." - Trotsky.
"I don't consider any of them authoritative" - Kidicious on Scripture.
Sell out. Oh, yee of little faith.
"Our scientific power has out run out spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men." - Martin Luther King Jr.
"A cynical, mercenary, demagogic press will produce in time a people as base as itself." - Joseph Pulitzer
I say congrats and keep up your faith. Confirmation is something you work hard for and defines your oath to your faith.
When you find yourself arguing with an idiot, you might want to rethink who the idiot really is.
"It can't rain all the time"-Eric Draven
Being dyslexic is hard work. I don't even try anymore.
use condoms, abort babies, euthanize relatives.
communion? that sounds familiar. I think I did that as a kid. back when I went to church. I never really understood it all at the time. I still don't. What is communion?
Yes, all the protestants can lambaste me for being a sell-out, to swimming the tiber, etc.
but this is the only chance you get.
Scouse Git (2) LaFayette Adam Smith and Solomwi you will be missed
"Learning carries within itself certain dangers because out of necessity one has to learn from one's enemies." - Trotsky.
"I don't consider any of them authoritative" - Kidicious on Scripture.
Why can't you be both?
We must be concerned not merely about who murdered them, but about the system, the way of life, the philosophy which produced these murderers. - Martin Luther King Jr. Eulogy for the Martyred Children (1963)
you eat a body and drink some blood.I never really understood it all at the time. I still don't. What is communion?
what's not to get?
Scouse Git (2) LaFayette Adam Smith and Solomwi you will be missed
"Learning carries within itself certain dangers because out of necessity one has to learn from one's enemies." - Trotsky.
"I don't consider any of them authoritative" - Kidicious on Scripture.
what would I be protesting than?Why can't you be both?
Scouse Git (2) LaFayette Adam Smith and Solomwi you will be missed
"Learning carries within itself certain dangers because out of necessity one has to learn from one's enemies." - Trotsky.
"I don't consider any of them authoritative" - Kidicious on Scripture.
How did your faith actually change over the past 3 years?
"I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
"I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
"I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis
When I was baptised as a protestant they never told me I had to protest anything.Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
what would I be protesting than?
We must be concerned not merely about who murdered them, but about the system, the way of life, the philosophy which produced these murderers. - Martin Luther King Jr. Eulogy for the Martyred Children (1963)
a very unusual thread to say the least - but welcome to the global conspiracy
Any views I may express here are personal and certainly do not in any way reflect the views of my employer. Tis the rising of the moon..
Look, I just don't anymore, okay?
My greatest wish is to be half the poster MikeH is.
Being confirmed is a special sacrament in the catholic church. I dont practice my faith but good luck.
When you find yourself arguing with an idiot, you might want to rethink who the idiot really is.
"It can't rain all the time"-Eric Draven
Being dyslexic is hard work. I don't even try anymore.
Good luck Ben.I'm very proud of you!
"I'm moving to the Left" - Lancer
"I imagine the neighbors on your right are estatic." - Slowwhand
Damn Papists.
"Our scientific power has out run out spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men." - Martin Luther King Jr.
"A cynical, mercenary, demagogic press will produce in time a people as base as itself." - Joseph Pulitzer
Happy Catholicism to you BK.
We must be concerned not merely about who murdered them, but about the system, the way of life, the philosophy which produced these murderers. - Martin Luther King Jr. Eulogy for the Martyred Children (1963)
Do you have the pesky sense of guilt yet?
Exult in your existence, because that very process has blundered unwittingly on its own negation. Only a small, local negation, to be sure: only one species, and only a minority of that species; but there lies hope. [...] Stand tall, Bipedal Ape. The shark may outswim you, the cheetah outrun you, the swift outfly you, the capuchin outclimb you, the elephant outpower you, the redwood outlast you. But you have the biggest gifts of all: the gift of understanding the ruthlessly cruel process that gave us all existence [and the] gift of revulsion against its implications.
-Richard Dawkins
Well, for starters, I no longer believe that Mary is the woman who rides the beast in St. John's apocalypse.How did your faith actually change over the past 3 years?
Seriously though, this is a really good question. There are many things that haven't changed. What has changed are my views surrounding the tradition of the church.
When I first became a Christian, I didn't know very much about the history of the church, and as I had a chance to delve into the history, it became apparent that there are some significant differences between the Catholic church and the protestant churches.
First of all, if you believe that all Christians are called to be in unity with one another, the second question, is how can they be in unity. It doesn't make sense to me to answer this question other than to be in the Catholic church.
Secondly, there is the issue of authority. All protestants will say that scripture ought to be the primary authority, but the truth is even with this, you rely upon tradition to help you interpret scripture. What the Catholic church says is that tradition and scripture are to be authoritative, not one as opposed to the other. This is something that really changed for me.
Third, there is the teachings over communion. I had a hard time accepting what was true about communion, until I started looking at what I believed about certain passages, specifically where Christ talks about having to eat his bread and to drink his blood, and how this was a difficult teaching. It made much more sense to me to accept this as the literal truth, rather than to keep inserting the phrase, symbol into the sacrifice.
It also opened my heart because of how different the Catholic mass is from protestant services, communion is the central part, not the sermon. Christ centred, not pastor centred.
Other stuff too, apostolic succession and the communion of saints were ideas completely alien to me that now seem rather familiar.
Mary went from asking why she needed to be sinless, to what the very first answer I got to that question, by the grace of God. She was sinless, because Christ was to be her son, and Christ has always loved his mother, since before she was born.
Scouse Git (2) LaFayette Adam Smith and Solomwi you will be missed
"Learning carries within itself certain dangers because out of necessity one has to learn from one's enemies." - Trotsky.
"I don't consider any of them authoritative" - Kidicious on Scripture.
Has it ever left?Do you have the pesky sense of guilt yet?
Scouse Git (2) LaFayette Adam Smith and Solomwi you will be missed
"Learning carries within itself certain dangers because out of necessity one has to learn from one's enemies." - Trotsky.
"I don't consider any of them authoritative" - Kidicious on Scripture.
Secondly, there is the issue of authority. All protestants will say that scripture ought to be the primary authority, but the truth is even with this, you rely upon tradition to help you interpret scripture. What the Catholic church says is that tradition and scripture are to be authoritative, not one as opposed to the other. This is something that really changed for me.
I take it you're not tempted by fundamentalism anymore?
"I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
"I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
"I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis
That's the whole thing, looking back, at some point in time, whichever church you joined made the decision to leave the Catholic church.When I was baptised as a protestant they never told me I had to protest anything.
To return to the Catholic church, it doesn't make sense to hold onto your old affiliation. The new supercedes the old, because it was there before the old.
Scouse Git (2) LaFayette Adam Smith and Solomwi you will be missed
"Learning carries within itself certain dangers because out of necessity one has to learn from one's enemies." - Trotsky.
"I don't consider any of them authoritative" - Kidicious on Scripture.
I'm half-catholic. I got the love of big, jaunty hats but missed out on the guilt.
And my protestant side of the family means I work hard to afford such hats.
Exult in your existence, because that very process has blundered unwittingly on its own negation. Only a small, local negation, to be sure: only one species, and only a minority of that species; but there lies hope. [...] Stand tall, Bipedal Ape. The shark may outswim you, the cheetah outrun you, the swift outfly you, the capuchin outclimb you, the elephant outpower you, the redwood outlast you. But you have the biggest gifts of all: the gift of understanding the ruthlessly cruel process that gave us all existence [and the] gift of revulsion against its implications.
-Richard Dawkins
Tempted?
Well, I'm not sure how you define fundamentalism.
Scouse Git (2) LaFayette Adam Smith and Solomwi you will be missed
"Learning carries within itself certain dangers because out of necessity one has to learn from one's enemies." - Trotsky.
"I don't consider any of them authoritative" - Kidicious on Scripture.
What strikes me is that the Catholic church has done so many horrible things in its past, and may do more in the future. It ruled half of europe for a while, and many of its popes were terrible people-people who killed and tortured thousands, if not more. I would understand if you perhaps believed in the tenets of Catholicism, but to place trust in the Vatican as an institution seems to me completely naive. Especially considering the relative laxity with which church members have treated sex offenders among their ranks. If this isn't what you're doing, then I hope you find whatever it is you seek in your beliefs. If it is, I hope you know what you're in for (not in the Apocalyptic 'burn in hell' sense).
"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."--General Sir Charles James Napier
Holy week, or work? Easy question.I'm half-catholic. I got the love of big, jaunty hats but missed out on the guilt.
And my protestant side of the family means I work hard to afford such hats.
Scouse Git (2) LaFayette Adam Smith and Solomwi you will be missed
"Learning carries within itself certain dangers because out of necessity one has to learn from one's enemies." - Trotsky.
"I don't consider any of them authoritative" - Kidicious on Scripture.
Work is holy you filthy Papist scum. Saints be praised, that's what the Prophet (PBOH) taught us when he returned as the avatar of Vishnu after his time in Nirvana.Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Holy week, or work? Easy question.
Exult in your existence, because that very process has blundered unwittingly on its own negation. Only a small, local negation, to be sure: only one species, and only a minority of that species; but there lies hope. [...] Stand tall, Bipedal Ape. The shark may outswim you, the cheetah outrun you, the swift outfly you, the capuchin outclimb you, the elephant outpower you, the redwood outlast you. But you have the biggest gifts of all: the gift of understanding the ruthlessly cruel process that gave us all existence [and the] gift of revulsion against its implications.
-Richard Dawkins
Why do you make a distinction between the tenets of the chruch, and trusting in the vatican? The mere statement that the magisterium has authority to interpret scripture implies a heirarchy that is one of the primary draws to Catholicism.I would understand if you perhaps believed in the tenets of Catholicism, but to place trust in the Vatican as an institution seems to me completely naive.
What would you consider appropriate punishment for these priests?Especially considering the relative laxity with which church members have treated sex offenders among their ranks. If this isn't what you're doing, then I hope you find whatever it is you seek in your beliefs. If it is, I hope you know what you're in for (not in the Apocalyptic 'burn in hell' sense).
Scouse Git (2) LaFayette Adam Smith and Solomwi you will be missed
"Learning carries within itself certain dangers because out of necessity one has to learn from one's enemies." - Trotsky.
"I don't consider any of them authoritative" - Kidicious on Scripture.
Non catholics tend to confuse the church as institution and catholicism as a lived experience.
It's a good way to live.
Any views I may express here are personal and certainly do not in any way reflect the views of my employer. Tis the rising of the moon..
Look, I just don't anymore, okay?
My greatest wish is to be half the poster MikeH is.
Toss yourself off without having to explain your actions to an embarrassed celibate man.
The genesis of the "evil Finn" concept- Evil, evil Finland
Err..that's what I'm trying to purposely distinguish between here.Non catholics tend to confuse the church as institution and catholicism as a lived experience.
Here in Australia at least, there's been controversey over the fact that sex offending priests have been ignored and moved around by the church, without any pressing of charges, let alone kicking them out. I would suggest kicking them out and telling the police would be very appropriate punishments. That's the law. It is not what they did for quite a while, until there was a media uproar about it. That's why I think trusting an institution such as the church, simply because it is the church, is not something to be done. It has a terrible past and its present is not that clean either.What would you consider appropriate punishment for these priests?
I wouldn't mind if, at the very least, the all of the past popes were good people--I could 'forgive' it even if some cardinals or priests were terrible people. But, as has been stated, for too long the vatican had been a place where morals were preached of and utterly ignored. Thus the institution in my eyes has no moral standing. Perhaps the present pope, as a person, is good. Perhaps he is a good leader. That does not mean the next one will be, nor the one after that. Trusting an institution to interpret God's word when that institution has committed horrible deeds in the past seems unwise, at least to me.Why do you make a distinction between the tenets of the chruch, and trusting in the vatican? The mere statement that the magisterium has authority to interpret scripture implies a heirarchy that is one of the primary draws to Catholicism.
"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."--General Sir Charles James Napier
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