Huge protest against plans to sell Europe to highest bidder

[Zoid]

19-03-2005 • Today almost 100,000 people marched through the streets of Brussels. They came from Belgium, France, Germany, Italy and the Netherlands to demonstrate against corporate-sponsored policies based on cuts in social and welfare provision and against the formation of a European superstate. The atmosphere was reminiscent of the enormous demonstrations in Amsterdam on 2nd October, when 300,000 turned out to protest against the Dutch government’s policies. The great majority of the crowd in Brussels was made up of the working population of Europe.

The full story with pics

[Az]

Good luck!

Your decisions will effect all of us. For example, Schroeder wants to cut corporate tax to 32%? we already hear voices calling to make it 20%

[Saras]

Silly people.

[Spiffor]

Good news

Thanks to these guys and others, political struggles about Europe is increasingly seen as social struggles, rather than as nationalistic struggles.

These people halp creating a European (at least, a west-European) public opinion, that shares ideas independantly of the national borders. This is grassroots Europe, and this is the kind of push that can make Europe change at last

[Donegeal]

I bid $3.00!

[Kuciwalker]

Would this be selling Europe to all bidders?

[Tattila the Hun]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Good news

Thanks to these guys and others, political struggles about Europe is increasingly seen as social struggles, rather than as nationalistic struggles.

These people halp creating a European (at least, a west-European) public opinion, that shares ideas independantly of the national borders. This is grassroots Europe, and this is the kind of push that can make Europe change at last

Grassroots Europe is just another word for the ignorant mob, who knows nothing of anything, and wants to have their say on everything.

IMHO

[Spiffor]

Oh the horrors of Democracy

[DinoDoc]

I bid 3.50.

[Zoid]

Originally posted by Tattila the Hun


Grassroots Europe is just another word for the ignorant mob, who knows nothing of anything, and wants to have their say on everything.

IMHO

Yes, do people think that they actually can think and say what they want? Do they think they live in a democracy? To the Gulag with all free thinkers!

[fdgfx]

Germany lowering corporate tax rate to 20%?! That would be terrific for new investment into this country.

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by Tattila the Hun


Grassroots Europe is just another word for the ignorant mob, who knows nothing of anything, and wants to have their say on everything.

IMHO

I disagree. The Brits weren't at this party.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Saras
Silly people.

I'm with you and Brussels on this one. Europe is losing jobs like never before and unemployement just keeps going up so something new is required not the same old failed socialist policies. Cutting costs and reducing regulation in order to compete in the global economy is the only anwser yet these people want to bury their heads in the sand while pretending everything is OK. Did that approach work for the Soviets? Europe has big problems (though luckily not as large as the Soviets) and it will be better to act now then to suffer through 10 more years of economic stagnation and job loses.

[Wernazuma III]

Originally posted by Azazel
Good luck!

Your decisions will effect all of us. For example, Schroeder wants to cut corporate tax to 32%? we already hear voices calling to make it 20%

He will fail miserably competing with our government, gods of corporate tax dumping - hell, even east European countries have higher taxes...

[Az]

Germany lowering corporate tax rate to 20%?! That would be terrific for new investment into this country.

How so?

[Imran Siddiqui]

You know, if some of these people took the energy they invest in protesting and used it to create businesses, perhaps the unemployment problem would go away .

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Oerdin
I'm with you and Brussels on this one. Europe is losing jobs like never before and unemployement just keeps going up so something new is required not the same old failed socialist policies.

If you can't live off your job, what good is it? Why do you keep siding with corporations against workers? You know if you don't make any money, you can't spend any money, and if you don't spend any money, corporations can't employ anyone.

[Giancarlo]

Commies supporting a march in supporting to kill the economy by not lowering corporate taxes.

You either restructure, or you can kiss your jobs goodbye.

[DanS]

I want to sell naked Europe calls!

[el freako]

Originally posted by Oerdin

I'm with you and Brussels on this one. Europe is losing jobs like never before and unemployement just keeps going up so something new is required not the same old failed socialist policies.

Actually Europe has been reforming since the mid 1990's and has been gaining employment at the fastest rate in 40 years - unemployment EU-wide is 8%, well down on the 10.5% peak of the last recession (and it appears to have peaked, although thanks to a fast-rising workforce it's falling very slowly)

Not that i'm saying more should not be done to free up markets (especially labour markets) in the EU, but the progress so far has been dramatic.

A good indicator of demand for labour is the total amount of hours worked:

average annual growth in total hours worked:

1950-60:
USA: +0.9%
EU15: +0.6%
Japan: +2.8%

1960-73:
USA: +1.7%
EU15: -0.4%
Japan: +1.2%

1973-83:
USA: +1.1%
EU15: -0.8%
Japan: +0.7%

1983-93:
USA: +1.8%
EU15: -0.1%
Japan: +0.4%

1993-03:
USA: +1.2%
EU15: +0.6%
Japan: -0.7%

So, as you can see, europe is enjoying the first sustained rise in total hours worked since the 1950's and whereas the gap between europe and america was consistantly 2% a year between 1960 and 1995 (when the rise in european hours started), since then the gap has been negligable (0.2% a year during 1995-2003)

[Saras]

Originally posted by DanS
I want to sell naked Europe calls!

Naked co-ed call option writing WHOOHOOO!!!

[DanS]

WOOOOHOOOO!!!

[Giancarlo]

Reform or die.

[Pekka]

hippies of the europe gather together,... must of been one horrible smell of BO!

Spiffor, and what do you mean social before national. We need to sort out NATIONAL PROBLEMS AND QUESTIONS FIRST. Then we can worry about social problems and other questions. NOT working them out only suits the echelon of power in the EU, that is the big countries. Well not even all of them. But we need to sort out all the questions first.

Listen, the national borders aren't going to vanish, even if you want them to, even if you scream it's a state of mind. Step outside of the laalaaland and visit the places that really don't give a **** about this HEGEMONY.

That's another thing. US Hegemony = Bad! EU Hegemony = GOOD! Not participating in the EU Hegemony = Anti-European. If I miss the train, I never get to be in the grassroots of EUrope?

This is nothing but racist. You don't even see the racism behind this, because you're the man now. YOu have become 'them'. You should start praying a lot and maybe devil will let you go.

And these hippies screaming about let's get better welfare, let's not lower taxes, should take a ****ing economics class or read the news once in a while. Their only economical experience includes once reading how the weed shirt was made and the different stages and costs of that from the internet. These people are becoming dangerous. Utopia chasers, but it's on everyone elses cost now. It's not just day dreaming, making a better world. It's deepthroating the devil already, and our buttholes are getting a bit sore already.

If these ****ing idiots are going to cause a single day of delay in our corporate tax drops, one of them will DIE in my hands.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Pekka
Spiffor, and what do you mean social before national. We need to sort out NATIONAL PROBLEMS AND QUESTIONS FIRST. Then we can worry about social problems and other questions. NOT working them out only suits the echelon of power in the EU, that is the big countries. Well not even all of them. But we need to sort out all the questions first.

The very reason why the EU countries are progressively dismantling their social policies (be they welfare, good wages, or good working conditions) is because we continue to compete against each other, instead of cooperating against each other. The only way to keep our high standards is to harmonize our economic and social policies.

If we don't do this, the companies will continue to move back and forth between the country that makes the worst dumping, wihtout necessarily creating anything in the matter. When Schröder lowers the corporate tax, it doesn't encourage anybody to create wealth. He encourages investors to remove their activity abroad and come to Germany. If you look at the big picture (the well-being of all Europeans), the overall decrease of corporate taxes won't stimulate growth, but will lower the quality of our public services, and raise the taxes on people likeyou and me.

That's precisely why we shouldn't compete with each other to become the cheapest ***** of Europe. At the opposite, we should harmonize our economic policies so that we can all maintain high standards.

There are two real problems that prevent us to do so: on the one hand, there's the ideology that competition is inherently good. On the other hand, there's the national sovereignty. Nations are something very important in the EU, in that they can defend cultures, lifestyles, specificities, and they are best able to decide on local policies. Unfortunately, the nationalists obsess about the borders, and they look on the interests of the "here and now" and refuse to see the broader picture. And the economic interests of Europe as a whole is extremely important for the interests of each nation. By refusing the harmonization of economic policies, the nationalists shoot their own country in the foot

Listen, the national borders aren't going to vanish, even if you want them to, even if you scream it's a state of mind. Step outside of the laalaaland and visit the places that really don't give a **** about this

I know there are plenty of places that don't care about the EU. Which is sad, considering that the EU causes about 70% of national lawmaking, and that a huge portion of these 70% sucks utterly, and should be changed. If the people cared more about the EU, the EU would be a much less crappy organization.

This is why this Brussels' protest is a good thing. Because it's made of people who rise above borders to take the matters in their own hands. If they stayed at the national level, the Eurocrats would happily continue to steal power

HEGEMONY

Care to tell me how you define hegemony? I have trouble connecting it to the rest of the post.

you're the man now.

That's false: I am among the most disenfranchised voters of Europe. I am a French Commie, and as such, I'll never have any say in my government's policies, because my party won't get the majority anytime soon. Considering that my government doesn't take ideological variety into account when it negociates something in the EU (only the ideology of the dominant party), I have absolutely no say in France's European policies. Besides, I'm Parisian, and as such I'm among the most underrepresented Europeans of the Parliament.
Since my political power is nil when it comes to the government, and the weakest when it comes to the Parliament, I don't see myself as "the man" at all, thank you very much.

YOu have become 'them'. You should start praying a lot and maybe devil will let you go.

Who is "them"?

And these hippies screaming about let's get better welfare, let's not lower taxes, should take a ****ing economics class or read the news once in a while. Their only economical experience includes once reading how the weed shirt was made and the different stages and costs of that from the internet.

These people have far more real-life experience than you (considering they're most often 40somethings who actually worked for previous decades), and the union leaders have a strong economic knowledge. However, economic knowledge doesn't equate the belief in BS like "lower corporate taxes are always good" and other things like that.

If these ****ing idiots are going to cause a single day of delay in our corporate tax drops, one of them will DIE in my hands.

Good to see your deveotion to the shareholder

[DinoDoc]

The high bid is 3.50 so far. When does the auction end so I can claim my item?

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Spiffor
The very reason why the EU countries are progressively dismantling their social policies (be they welfare, good wages, or good working conditions) is because we continue to compete against each other, instead of cooperating against each other. The only way to keep our high standards is to harmonize our economic and social policies.

Conspiracies in restraint of trade

[Atahualpa]

5€ ($6.6)

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
You know, if some of these people took the energy they invest in protesting and used it to create businesses, perhaps the unemployment problem would go away .

Didn't you hear? Silly Euros don't create businesses they sit around and wait for their governments to do it for them. Just check the start up figures and compare them to say the US, Canada, or even China.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Spiffor

The very reason why the EU countries are progressively dismantling their social policies (be they welfare, good wages, or good working conditions) is because we continue to compete against each other, instead of cooperating against each other. The only way to keep our high standards is to harmonize our economic and social policies.

Translation, my country has priced itself out of the market so I want everyone else's costs to be raised to my uncompetitive level. Ireland, the Netherlands, the UK, and Spain seem to be doing just fine since hey have lowered their costs compared to other European countries and the doom and gloom you predict has not happened there. France and Germany will survive the cost cutting and will emerge stronger just like other European states have.

If you folks think the rest of Europe is an unfair competitor then just wait until you have to compete without subsidies or trade restrictions with the rest of the world. It's time for a reality check.