EU bans symbols

Pyrodrew · January 17, 2005, 20:52

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/01/17/eu.nazi.ap/index.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4178643.stm
EU considers Nazi symbols ban
BRUSSELS, Belgium (AP) -- The European Union's top justice official was considering Monday whether the 25-nation bloc should ban the use of Nazi symbols after Britain's Prince Harry wore a swastika armband to a costume party.

Franco Frattini, the EU's justice and home affairs commissioner, said he was open to discussing the issue at a Jan. 27 meeting of EU justice ministers.

"It may be worth looking into the possibility of a total ban, a Europe-wide ban," his spokesman Friso Roscam Abbing told reporters. "Commissioner Frattini shares the general feeling of opprobrium on the use of the swastika and other Nazi symbols."

The call came after several German conservatives, socialists and liberal democrats in the European Parliament urged a European ban following a scandal last week over photos of Harry, third in line to the British throne, wearing a Nazi outfit at a costume party.

German Socialist Helmut Kuhne called Harry a "royal idiot" for not knowing the consequences and World War II history linked to the Nazi swastika.

Germany already bans such symbols.

Roscam Abbing said Frattini would urge EU ministers to use the swastika incident to push for agreement on EU-wide rules to combat racism, fascism and anti-Semitism.

A proposal was introduced two years ago but discussions have failed to make headway.

Roscam Abbing said officials would take care not to violate freedom of expression in devising such a ban.

Frattini's decision to look into an EU-wide ban could further embarrass Queen Elizabeth II, who is to lead British commemorations of the Holocaust in London later this month.

Why stop at bans on racism, fascism and anti-semitism symbols? Why not tackle the worst problem first... with a Hello Kitty ban???

David Floyd · January 17, 2005, 20:55

Attempts to stifle free speech

Immortal Wombat · January 17, 2005, 20:56

never gunna happen

Edit/ Although I'd be interested to see the public reaction in Britain if it's tried. How many people actually would fight for the right to free expression of something they loathed?

Patroklos · January 17, 2005, 20:56

This is one of those things that is a good idea in one case, and almost universally a bad idea in all others.

I would consider Germany a special case, the rest of Europe doesn't need this.

Gangerolf · January 17, 2005, 20:57

Not the EU's business. They can't do that, can they?

Roscam Abbing said officials would take care not to violate freedom of expression in devising such a ban.

Pyrodrew · January 17, 2005, 20:59

Originally posted by Gangerolf

Roscam Abbing said officials would take care not to violate freedom of expression in devising such a ban.

That was my favorite sentence too!

Sava · January 17, 2005, 21:03

I'm all for free speech, but I understand why Europe would want to ban the swastika...

believing in an ideology like free speech is nice, but it's not wrong to be pragmatic when it comes to something like this... maybe if the Nazi's DIDN't cause tens of millions of deaths, I'd feel differently.

JimmyCracksCorn · January 17, 2005, 21:03

Originally posted by Immortal Wombat
never gunna happen

JimmyCracksCorn · January 17, 2005, 21:07

Originally posted by Sava
I'm all for free speech, but I understand why Europe would want to ban the swastika...

believing in an ideology like free speech is nice, but it's not wrong to be pragmatic when it comes to something like this... maybe if the Nazi's DIDN't cause tens of millions of deaths, I'd feel differently.

I agree. Although it can become problematic considering the swatstika was not only used by the Nazis, and in fact has been a prevalent symbol is many societes and cultures for thousands of years. I guess it would have to be banned only in certain contexts, a very tricky thing, which makes me agree with IW that its never going to happen.

Sava · January 17, 2005, 21:08

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar

Humanity has caused billions of deaths (much much more if you include non-humans).
I propose a worldwide ban of humanity.

Sava · January 17, 2005, 21:08

Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn

I agree. Although it can become problematic considering the swatstika was not only used by the Nazis, and in fact has been a prevalent symbol is many societes and cultures for thousands of years. I guess it would have to be banned only in certain contexts, a very tricky thing, which makes me agree with IW that its never going to happen.

yeah I don't think it'll happen either.

Ted Striker · January 17, 2005, 21:09

Hello Kitty Ban

Verto · January 17, 2005, 22:46

Originally posted by Sava
I'm all for free speech, but I understand why Europe would want to ban the swastika...

believing in an ideology like free speech is nice, but it's not wrong to be pragmatic when it comes to something like this... maybe if the Nazi's DIDN't cause tens of millions of deaths, I'd feel differently.

Then ban the hammer and sickle.

Verto · January 17, 2005, 23:01

Now ban Tassadar.

laurentius · January 17, 2005, 23:14

The swastika is more than just a nazi symbol....

Banning things is usually stupidity anyway.

:) Smiley · January 17, 2005, 23:23

Rather than permaban it, just give it a 50% PCR.

Winston · January 18, 2005, 00:19

To the people who say this will never happen, I point to the case a couple of years ago when the joint EU council decided to politically isolate for months the member state of Austria - because the rest of the EU didn't like how their (democratic) elections and subsequent forming of a coalition government turned out.

On occasion, the EU wishes so much to put its foot down and do "the right thing" that it will gladly abandon any sensible reasoning of the wider perspective.

I agree BTW, that while Germany may have understandable and proper cause for upholding such a ban, the rest of Europe ought to stay clear of restrictions.

Urban Ranger · January 18, 2005, 01:25

Originally posted by Verto
Then ban the hammer and sickle.

Ban the cross too, while you are at it.

DanS · January 18, 2005, 01:35

Edit/ Although I'd be interested to see the public reaction in Britain if it's tried. How many people actually would fight for the right to free expression of something they loathed?

It would probably make Prince Harry a hero, in one of the most ironic turnabouts in history.

notyoueither · January 18, 2005, 03:03

Rather than restricting freedom, maybe they could enlarge it. *Ahem*, French school dress laws. *Ahem*

RGBVideo · January 18, 2005, 03:11

This is a classic example of a law which doesn't need to be directivized. There's no need to force every German law down every member nation's throats.

Rather than restricting freedom, maybe they could enlarge it. *Ahem*, French school dress laws. *Ahem*

Japanese have school uniforms -- isn't it even 'worse' in that regard? Why aren't you ever bashing 'em for those?

Stefu · January 18, 2005, 03:21

So Germany thinks that German laws should be enforced on the rest of Europe? Doesn't that sound familiar? Do I hear the jackboots marching?

Anyway, what would happen to the Finnish presidential flag?

notyoueither · January 18, 2005, 03:21

Originally posted by VJ
Japanese have school uniforms -- isn't it even 'worse' in that regard? Why aren't you ever bashing 'em for those?

Do they ban yarmelkes from Jewish students or head dress from Sikhs? Or a simple cross? If they did, I would bash them.

RGBVideo · January 18, 2005, 03:29

Do they ban yarmelkes from Jewish students or head dress from Sikhs? Or a simple cross? If they did, I would bash them.

So you're honestly thinking that they banned dresses, which cover so much skin that it's impossible to tell one student apart from another, just because they were muslim symbols?

Stefu: What about Finnish Air Force?

notyoueither · January 18, 2005, 03:37

Originally posted by VJ

So you're honestly thinking that they banned dresses, which cover so much skin that it's impossible to tell one student apart from another, just because they were muslim symbols?

What?

RGBVideo · January 18, 2005, 03:46

Never mind, then...

notyoueither · January 18, 2005, 03:50

Didn't they ban crosses, and yarmelkes, and Sikh head dress, and everything else along with the burka? I seem to have read many French posters saying that they totally agreed with it as it went hand in hand with the tradition of anti-religious feeling within the Republic(s).

Muslim girls wear burkas, ban crosses! It makes total sense.

Ben Kenobi · January 18, 2005, 04:24

Ban the cross too, while you are at it.

Sure, why not?

There go half the flags of Europe.

Hey, maybe that's the whole plan of the EU.

Chemical Ollie · January 18, 2005, 05:08

Yeah, let's team up with China - ban Falun Gong!

molly bloom · January 18, 2005, 05:47

Originally posted by Chemical Ollie
Yeah, let's team up with China - ban Falun Gong!

The Nazi swastika, as far as I can ascertain, is usually or always, a right facing black swastika. Celtic and Asian swastikas (and swastika type symbols found in other cultures such as Native American) usually face left.

Besides, the Nazi swastika usually comes in black, on a white circle on a red ground. It's not likely it would be mistaken for a 3000 year old Celtic artefact or part of a Tibetan Buddhist mandala.