Issues concerning gays -- part XXXVVV

[MrFun]

I am reading a new book titled "Why Marriage Matters: America, Equality, and Gay People's Right to Marry" by Evan Wolfson.

I found out that in 1987 the Supreme Court of United States ruled in the Turner v. Safley case that convicted felons have the right/freedom to marry.

Apparently, convicted felons are worthy of equal citizenship over law-abiding gays and lesbians who pay their taxes, earn a living through a job, and are actively involved in their community.

[Nubclear]

Yes. Convicted felons only commited a crime here, but your one of the fencesitters!!!1!!111

Oh wait, that argument is reserved for blacks. Nevermind then

[Jon Miller]

well, while I am in favor of gay marriage

letting felons marry is not any reason why gay marraige should be allowed

it should be allowed because it will make gays life better (hopefully)

Jon Miller

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
letting felons marry is not any reason why gay marraige should be allowed

[Nubclear]

Yes. At least convicted felons are human.

[/BenKenobi]

[chequita guevara]

Gays are mean spirited for wanting to destroy the institution of marriage.

[Jon Miller]

it does weaken it

but not much, and a lot less than what straights have done to marriage (Seen fox recently? or the divorce rate?)

JOn Miller
(I know that you don't think that, but I am addressing that point)

[Jaguar]

Felons have nothing to do with it really.


Insert blah blah blah about how gay marriage is tehw00t.

[Tuberski]

Aren't most convicted felons homosexual while in prison?



Seems like that alone should allow gays to marry.

ACK!

[Imran Siddiqui]

You Roman Numerals are incorrect . 'V' stands for 5, so you can't have 3 in a row (Hell, 2 in a row wouldn't work either... that would be 'X')

[Jaguar]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
You Roman Numerals are incorrect . 'V' stands for 5, so you can't have 3 in a row (Hell, 2 in a row wouldn't work either... that would be 'X')

You word usage are incorrect too.

[Dis]

why do we have so many gay threads?

[Jon Miller]

because of the large number of gays on apolyton

JonMiller

[MrFun]

why marriage matters for all Americans regardless of sexual orientation:

death: If a couple is not married and one partner dies, the other partner is not entitled to get bereavement leave from work, to file wrongful death claims, to draw the Social Security payments of the decease partner, or to automatically inherit a shared home.

debts: Unmarried partners do not generally have responsibility for each other's debt.

divorce: Unmarried couples do not have access to the courts or to the legal and financial guidelines in times of breakup.

family leave: Unmarried couples are often not covered by laws and policies that permit people to take medical leave to care for a sick spouse or for the kids.

health: Unlike spouses, unmarried partners are usually not considered next of kin for the purposes of hopsital visitation and emergency medical decisions.

housing: Denied marriage, couples of lesser means are not recognized as a family and thus can be denied or disfavored in their applications for public housing.

immigration: U.S. residency and family unification are not available to an unmarried partner from another country.

inheritance: Unmarried surviving partners do not automatically inherit property should their loved one die without a will.

insurance: Unmarried partners can't always sign up for joint home and auto insurance. In addition, many employers don't cover domestic partners or their biological or nonbiological children in their health insurance plans.

parenting: Unmarried couples are denied the automatic right to joint parenting, joint adoption, joint foster care, and visitation for nonbiological parents. In addition, the children of unmarried couples are denied the guarantee of child support and an automatic legal relationship to both parents.

portability: Unlike marriages, which are honored in all states and countries, domestic partnerships and other alternative mechanisms only exist in a few states and countries.

privilege: Unmarried couples are not shielded against having to testify against each other in judicial proceedings, and are also usually denied the coverage in crime-victims counseling and protection programs afforded married couples.

property: Unmarried couples are excluded from special rules that permit married couples to buy and own property together under favorable terms.

retirement: In addition to being denied access to shared or spousal benefits through Social Security as well as coverage under Medicare and other programs, unmarried couples are denied withdrawal rights and protective tax treatment given to spouses with regard to IRAs and other retirement plans.

taxes: Unmarried couples cannot file joint tax returns and are excluded from tax benefits and claims specific to marriage.

from the previously mentioned author's book (pages 13 - 15)

[Imran Siddiqui]

I aren't put title in, even though

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
You Roman Numerals are incorrect . 'V' stands for 5, so you can't have 3 in a row (Hell, 2 in a row wouldn't work either... that would be 'X')

so ****ing what?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Never fail to point out an instance of your wrongness

[Jon Miller]

also the fact that it supports good stable relationships which make people happier

Jon Miller

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Never fail to point out an instance of your wrongness

I'm touched

[Imran Siddiqui]

Now you brandish the tongue

[MrFun]

Yeah -- one day I was fine, and then the next day, you corrupted me with this addiction to using the tongue smilie.

[Imran Siddiqui]

HAW HAW!

[Jon Miller]

I don't like smilies

in fact, I kill them in my sleep

Jon Miller

[MrFun]

anyway, back to the topic . . . . .

[Jon Miller]

you haven't really replied to me once..

JM

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
it does weaken it

but not much, and a lot less than what straights have done to marriage (Seen fox recently? or the divorce rate?)

JOn Miller
(I know that you don't think that, but I am addressing that point)

(obligatory reply)


How exactly does marriage protection regardless of sexual orientation of the couples, weaken marriage?

[Jon Miller]

hmm, I have gotten in to long discussions over this in the past

basically there is a deffinition for things

by expanding the deffinition you weaken it (it is less specific)

also, not all change deffinitions, and so you get some ambiguity their also

since marriage is an idea (or that is the most important part of it, although you might argue that the econimic befits are) it's strength is based upon it's definition

generally it takes a huge conversation, and a lot of back and forth for people to sorta see what I am saying

which I don't have time for right now, so if oyu want to discuss that point we need to do so on teh weekend

(I haev a final I am not prepared for tomorrow, and a takehome due tomorrow, and I ened an A on the final I am not prepared for tomorrow to do OK in the class (get a B))

Jon Miller

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
hmm, I have gotten in to long discussions over this in the past

basically there is a deffinition for things

by expanding the deffinition you weaken it (it is less specific)

also, not all change deffinitions, and so you get some ambiguity their also

since marriage is an idea (or that is the most important part of it, although you might argue that the econimic befits are) it's strength is based upon it's definition

generally it takes a huge conversation, and a lot of back and forth for people to sorta see what I am saying

which I don't have time for right now, so if oyu want to discuss that point we need to do so on teh weekend

(I haev a final I am not prepared for tomorrow, and a takehome due tomorrow, and I ened an A on the final I am not prepared for tomorrow to do OK in the class (get a B))

Jon Miller

ok . . . . . .


I don't see how lifting prohibition against interracial marriage weakened the institution of marriage.

I also do not see how even giving convicted felons the freedom to marry weakened the institution of marriage.

[Jon Miller]

I didn't say giving felons the freedom to marry weakened it

(although it might)

lifting the prohibition against interracial marriage perhaps did (in the US)

note, that based upon my opinoin of weaken, doesn't mean that it will stay weaken, rather after time (where thigns don't change much) it will strengthen (As people all generally come ot hold one view)

Jon Miller

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
lifting the prohibition against interracial marriage perhaps did (in the US)

HUH??