Rugby - Running Out of Titles

[finbar]

Mmmmm. I just checked the TV guide. I have wall-to-wall rugby from 1am tomorrow morning to 6am.

[LDiCesare]

France - Scotland 16 - 9.
A poor match by the French. The first half saw the Scots lead by 6-0, in part thanks to 3 missed penalties. That first half was really bad, with a big pressure from the Scot back row, but several penalties gained by the French on the scrum (thank you Marconnet).
The second half was much better, when the French managed to launch Chabal a few times. Delaigue was good except for his 2 missed penalty kicks. I liked Ludovic Valbon, who entered as a winger early in the match. He made several good moves and looks very talented.
Still, the team desperately needs to fight more when they meet England next week.

[Tamerlin]

As usual, LDiCesare comments say it all. Very poor game from the French team, there is a lot of work to be done and I am not sure the players selected are up to the challenge to the exception of players like Chabal (at least in the second half), Dominici, Servat. Mignoni proved he is not an international level player (at least in my opinion) as he was not able to play quickly enough to unbalance the Scottish defence.

There seems to be no French team but rather a sum of individuals not used to play together or even willing to play together. The support was lacking and when a player managed to pierce through the defence he was often alone during a critical fraction of time (i.e.: Delaigue's run in the second half, ball lost to the Scottish) and when the support was on time Mignoni was much too slow thus allowing the Scottish defence to place itself again.

[LDiCesare]

Mignoni proved he is not an international level player (at least in my opinion) as he was not able to play quickly enough to unbalance the Scottish defence.

The fact that the Scottish scrummy was really good didn't help him either. But it's probably mostly because his pack wasn't as aggressive as it should have been that Mignoni didn't do so well. Still he's got many things to prove if he wants to play at this level again.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by LDiCesare

The fact that the Scottish scrummy was really good didn't help him either. But it's probably mostly because his pack wasn't as aggressive as it should have been that Mignoni didn't do so well. Still he's got many things to prove if he wants to play at this level again.

I agree with you but when the pack was advancing he was almost always late, especially in the second half.

A blatant difference between the French team and the Scottish comes from the kicks. The Scottish were far more efficient in this area, as are most of the teams coming from the Brittish isles, and these kicks allowed them to occupy the French side for most of the game. Though Frédéric Michalack brang a welcomed "punch" when he replaced Yann Delaigue (I think he should have rather replaced Mignoni) he also proved he still needs to improve his field kicks.

[finbar]

I thought the French second half was vastly superior to the first half but they still managed, somehow, not to score. Except from the charge down late in the match. Admittedly the Scots defence was solid. With so many first-choice players missing, it's hard to know how to rate the French performance apart from, overall, disappointing.

England -v- Wales? I thought Wales deserved to win and should have won by more. They wasted some golden try-scoring opportunities in the first half with some poor decision-making. The classic example was when they had 5 on 3 out wide, with only England forwards to beat - why were England forwards always to be found where the backs should be? - and the Welsh kicked instead of passed.

England? Well, they have injury problems, too, and I realise it's the first international of the season, but I thought there was a depressing lack of tactical nouse and strategy. Just as there was in the match against us at Twickers. In that match, when they drove through the forwards, they looked dangerous. Which they did, in that match, for about 10 minutes. Last night they probably did it once for about 30 seconds. For the rest of the match it was haphazard, fairly aimless rugby. The backline might as well not have turned up to play.

It didn't help that they only had one worthwhile forward in Ben Kay. He tried his hardest. But Grewcock is a waste of space. And dangerous. Tell me, Havak, is he psychotic? He should have been red carded for his boot to the head. He should also be cited. What can he claim in his defence? That he was aiming for the ball? The ball was on the ground. He escaped a boots charge earlier in the week. He pushed his luck too far last night. I also thought the Welsh captain's yellow card was ridiculous. There were no punches, he pushed with an open hand. Reverse the penalty for retaliation, certainly, but it didn't warrant a card.

The young Novacastrian centres barely got a sniff. Not necessarily their fault, because there didn't actually seem to be any plan to involve the backline. But young Tait will remember his debut for the couple of smashing tackles he copped from Henson. Gee, Henson can tackle. And play a bit, too.

Apart from that, the Beer Gut still can't throw into a lineout, and I still have to question whether Jason Robinson is the right man to captain. As against us, England looked leaderless on the field. Robinson is a wonderfully skilled player, and I'm sure he's a terrific person, but he doesn't impose himself. He doesn't take charge. He doesn't direct. And if the coach isn't up to it tactically - and, I have to say, the evidence is that he isn't - then the captain has to organise it on the field. I suspect that J**** is weeping into his glass of chardonnay in his chair in front of the TV. No one will fill his captaincy boots in a hurry because he will go down as one of the great leaders of all rugby time, but I'm sure Robinson isn't the man. On the other hand, out of the current team, including those currently injured, I don't know who is.

I don't know about Wales. They do one thing very well - run the ball, exploiting the speed and skills of that little winger. When they can't do that, they're terribly vulnerable. England, playing as as they were, I think, should never have hit the lead. Still, if the Welsh are as young a team as they seem, they have potential, and the win will give them great confidence. What they need, I suspect, is some muscle and sturdiness to back up the speed and skills.

[LDiCesare]

I agree with what you said on Wales-England.

But young Tait will remember his debut for the couple of smashing tackles he copped from Henson. Gee, Henson can tackle.

Yeah, that tackle when he ended up on his feet with the poor English in his arms was really funny.
The Welsh would probably have scored has they passed the ball wide more often. Both Henson and Williams were a bit too individualist at times. Overall, the Welsh could have attacked a bit more even when they led, and not let the English come back the way they did. Said English had apparently no sense of how to attack. Even playing with two fly halves gave them an advantage for only about 5 minutes. Lewsey in particular has had a quite poor placement when receiving kicks.

[Havak]

The only thing not funny about that tackle was that it teetered on the edge of being a spear.

Well the Robinson apologists are out in force. I think he got various things wrong but I'll discuss that Monday as right now I have borrowed many emoticons from Tamerlin to express my annoyance.

France were poor as well as were Ireland. Wales for the championship?

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Havak
Well the Robinson apologists are out in force. I think he got various things wrong but I'll discuss that Monday as right now I have borrowed many emoticons from Tamerlin to express my annoyance.

I agree that Robinson did not act like a captain and that could be too much for his shoulders. In the same spirit I have found Dawson really less skilled than usual and rather slow thus allowing the Welsh defence too much time to fill the holes. In the same way, too many forwards were often involved in the rucks and mauls leaving a lot of space to the Welsh attackers. IMO we have seen an English side that had the same problem that the French, a collection of individuals rather than a real team, it was not the case of the Welsh obviously.

France were poor as well as were Ireland. Wales for the championship?

You should not laugh...

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
The only thing not funny about that tackle was that it teetered on the edge of being a spear.

There were two tackles. The one where he carried him was good thinking. Keeping him off the ground.

I'll discuss that Monday as right now I have borrowed many s

Are there enough in the known universe?

France were poor as well as were Ireland. Wales for the championship?

I completely forgot about the Ireland game. Sounds like an ordinary effort. The Welsh were the only real performers, I thought, but they were still less than convincing. A fairly ordinary first round across the board.

[Havak]

The problem is it is the coach called Robinson I was talking about. I thought Jason was the only player who looked the part – though his captaincy is non-existent.

Of course it would be far too easy to criticise the coaches selections. So I will.

The Tait experiment failed. He has skill but physically is not ready for international rugby just yet. Noon is exactly what I called him – an average club player. My centre combination for next weekend would be Barkley and Smith. Hell Smith looked more threatening on a boating lake at Bath than the England centre’s did all game against Wales!

Chris Jones – what is the fascination with him at the RFU – lightweight and lacking any appreciable skill. Andy Hazel outdone by the taffs = get rid. Fortunately there is a real chance that Moody and Corry will both be fit next weekend so I’d have both back in to get us some go forward over the gameline. My combo would be Moody-Corry-Worseley.

Tamerlin is dead right about Dawson – he was s-l-o-w in the extreme. Ellis to start with Gomers on the bench.

And the key failing by the coach? The one player who stood out as dire? Lardy Thompson. Poor throwing, no presence in the loose, being stopped dead in the tackle. What more does this lad have to do wrong before Titterell and Chuter oust him? I simply do not understand why Thompson was not subbed. My combo would be Titterell with Chuter on the bench and Thompson in fat camp somewhere.

I think I would also oust Grewcock and Borthwick and bring in Shaw or Brown. I think Kay did more than enough to keep his place.

Overall then I’m not happy. We have huge injury problems but that is no excuse – England should not lose to Wales period. If only we had got a jammy charge down try like some other teams I could mention.

Wales the only real perfomers? We were godawful and they were close behind us!! Italy were the performers for me getting one over the vaunted Irish pack.

[finbar]

I think you're probably spot on with all the player changes. But the fact remains that the team has no evident strategy. I don't think changing players will necessarily change that. Many of the players you're identifying to come in played against us and it was crap strategy that probably cost you the match against us.

So Italy actually achieved something? I didn't see the match. So I can move to Italy with some hope?

[Havak]

You may be right - we lack a playmaker certainly. Maybe when the Prodigal Wilko returns?

Chris Jones got a glowing report on the BBC website. Huh?

Italy played really well - it took exceptional individual brilliance from BOD and Murphy to break through them - and only a late try made it safe. The forwards certainly gave the Irish pack a tough time. Move with great hope - I am certainly worried!!

I wonder if you will find this amusing Finbar - strong rumours this weekend that Tigers are targetting two players for next season. These are Lipman (Aussie born English open side from Bath - incidentally broke his leg against us Saturday) and a fesity lock called...Justin Harrison. Thats right - Tigers are sounding out plank to fill the squad gap left by Jonno. Laugh? I nearly cried.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
You may be right - we lack a playmaker certainly. Maybe when the Prodigal Wilko returns?

So you're counting on having a playmaker sometime in 2009? But I think the problem, perhaps, is further up the tree. Perhaps the coach is developing strategy that isn't being carried out on the field, or perhaps he isn't. Anyway, I'll wait till some of the player strength returns to see what happens.

Chris Jones got a glowing report on the BBC website. Huh?

I can't imagine why. I barely saw him.

EDIT. I just read the website. The author was obviously watching a different match to the one I was watching. As I recall, Jones took a couple of very basic lineout throws. Still, given Beer Guts' throwing, perhaps catching anything from him was an achievement.

Italy played really well - it took exceptional individual brilliance from BOD and Murphy to break through them - and only a late try made it safe. The forwards certainly gave the Irish pack a tough time. Move with great hope - I am certainly worried!!

I'll have to make sure we're based somewhere in the north. The only place in Italy to be, really.

I wonder if you will find this amusing Finbar - strong rumours this weekend that Tigers are targetting two players for next season. These are Lipman (Aussie born English open side from Bath - incidentally broke his leg against us Saturday) and a fesity lock called...Justin Harrison. Thats right - Tigers are sounding out plank to fill the squad gap left by Jonno. Laugh? I nearly cried.

Wouldn't it be blissful? It's the usual contractual-negotiation argy-bargy. He hasn't re-signed here yet. He will.

[Havak]

Anyway, I'll wait till some of the player strength returns to see what happens.

No need. I think you have it bang on with the coach aspect. The team will not be named until Wednesday now as he waits on certain injuries but something damning has happened – Ollie Smith has not been called to training this week – but Henry Paul has - and Tait has been kept.

This coach is not up to the job – time to get rid and cut our losses. Typical Bath Alumni – self deluded.

The author was obviously watching a different match to the one I was watching.

So was Andy Robinson – Jones is yet to be canned from the squad too!

Looks like a painful time coming up with Robinson’s ‘visionary’ selections. Rest assured the RFU will can him if he continues to lose. Playing Henry Paul again should be career suicide.

I'll have to make sure we're based somewhere in the north. The only place in Italy to be, really.

Certainly handy for you to catch Tiger visits.

Wouldn't it be blissful? It's the usual contractual-negotiation argy-bargy. He hasn't re-signed here yet. He will.

I don’t doubt it – and it causes me no grief. Our fourth specialist lock (James Hamilton) impresses me far more than Justin anyway.

[Havak]

Oh yes sorry - Grewcock escaped censure totally. Free to stamp on French heads on Sunday now.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Havak
Oh yes sorry - Grewcock escaped censure totally. Free to stamp on French heads on Sunday now.

I don't think his act was intentional... a bit clumsy though.

[Havak]

He is starting to get a reputation for that clumsiness - which is a bit of a problem.

[Havak]

Oh and Finbar I hope Italy record a thumping victory on Saturday. I suspect they might - arrogance always comes before a fall for Wales and there has been plenty of arrogance from them this week so far.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
Oh and Finbar I hope Italy record a thumping victory on Saturday. I suspect they might - arrogance always comes before a fall for Wales and there has been plenty of arrogance from them this week so far.

But the Welsh had support from, um, unexpected quarters. You might fancy making such a bet yourself if it guarantees a win this weekend! And you, too, Tamerlin!

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
No need. I think you have it bang on with the coach aspect. The team will not be named until Wednesday now as he waits on certain injuries but something damning has happened – Ollie Smith has not been called to training this week – but Henry Paul has - and Tait has been kept.

Mmmmm. There's an argument for youth - I've put the argument myself - but not Henry Paul! I refuse to believe there isn't someone better.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Tamerlin


I don't think his act was intentional... a bit clumsy though.

I think you're being extremely generous. The player he booted was clearly visible to him. He claims he was stepping over the ruck. His foot movement was up and forward, straight at the player. Given his lengthy history of foul play with the boot, I'm amazed he was given the benefit of the doubt.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by finbar


I think you're being extremely generous. The player he booted was clearly visible to him. He claims he was stepping over the ruck. His foot movement was up and forward, straight at the player. Given his lengthy history of foul play with the boot, I'm amazed he was given the benefit of the doubt.

You might be right, I don't know the past of the said player so I can only judge about what I have seen.

About the supporter betting on an intimate part of his anatomy, someone sent me a mail with the information this afternoon but I found the story so stupid that I thought it was a hoax. Sometimes reality beats fiction.

Buena note...

[Havak]

Yeah I saw that Taffy fan story in the press here - wonder if it is true? Certainly shows the sanity of the average Welsh fan?

I take it you have checked out the BBC boards - one win by two points and the welsh fans are talking of a long term return to parity between England and the Celts. I think thats an impressively blinkered view of the reality of the difference between the countries myself - it's a hard period for us but it is likely to be finite. They are about as good as they will ever get - and I still maintain they were awful on Saturday too as any competnet side would have stuffed us the way we played.

There is an argument for youth - though perhaps Tait is just a little too young. Wilko was already far physically stronger when he debuted at 17. Ollie Smith = 22, Henry Paul = approx 30. So where is the sense even on that level? Paul has failed at every asking - Tamerlin will remember Paris in 2002 when Paul bottled it. Why risk him against France again?

Grewcock has had disciplinary problems throughout his career. His record of cards is far worse than a certain retired locks for example. I hear only three English players have ever been red carded - and Shaw and Grewcock are two of those. I still think that was unfair on Shaw but it remains in the books.

The other two locks in the squad are not impressing me this season. I'd pull either of the two from the Friday A game instead to partner Kay - and yes you guessed it they are Brown and Deacon.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
Yeah I saw that Taffy fan story in the press here - wonder if it is true? Certainly shows the sanity of the average Welsh fan?

Or shows the perils of gambling.

I take it you have checked out the BBC boards - one win by two points and the welsh fans are talking of a long term return to parity between England and the Celts. I think thats an impressively blinkered view of the reality of the difference between the countries myself - it's a hard period for us but it is likely to be finite. They are about as good as they will ever get - and I still maintain they were awful on Saturday too as any competnet side would have stuffed us the way we played.

Objective opinion. I don't know that they're as good as they're going to get. They should have won by a lot more and need more than their current running game. Yes, any competent team would have beaten you. I'd say they're on the improve while you can only - and must - improve. You've got greater playing depth and a better set up, so you should, down the track, pay them back with interest. But, under this coach, it will probably take longer than it should. I know little about the man but he doesn't even look like a thinker!

There is an argument for youth - though perhaps Tait is just a little too young. Wilko was already far physically stronger when he debuted at 17. Ollie Smith = 22, Henry Paul = approx 30. So where is the sense even on that level? Paul has failed at every asking - Tamerlin will remember Paris in 2002 when Paul bottled it. Why risk him against France again?

Yes, Tait probably is too young, and too physically slight. Henson ate him. BTW, why haven't I seen Henson before? Obviously I have, but I haven't noticed him. He can play. The Paul situation is ridiculous. A nail in the coach's coffin.

Grewcock has had disciplinary problems throughout his career. His record of cards is far worse than a certain retired locks for example.

J**** was rough and tough. Grewcock, I think, has a screw loose. No one will convince me his boot was accidental. I've watched it many times. The trajectory of his boot had nothing to do with stepping over the ruck. If it did, his foot was going to land ten feet the other side of the ruck.

The other two locks in the squad are not impressing me this season. I'd pull either of the two from the Friday A game instead to partner Kay - and yes you guessed it they are Brown and Deacon.

Frankly, apart from Kay's game on the weekend, I haven't seen an England lock worth a pinch since J**** retired.

[Havak]

And I'll come back to all of that this afternoon but for now some breaking news:

England coach makes five changes
Andy Robinson has made five changes from the side that lost to Wales for England's Six Nations match against France at Twickenham on Sunday.
Olly Barkley comes into the centres and Harry Ellis takes over at scrum-half, while Lewis Moody, Martin Corry and Phil Vickery return in the pack.

Vickery is in for the injured Julian White and Barkley replaces Mathew Tait, who is dropped from the 22.

In the back row Leicester players Moody and Corry are both fit again.

I'll comment on this later too.

[Havak]

Or shows the perils of gambling.

or the dangers of bravado not backed by intellect?

But, under this coach, it will probably take longer than it should. I know little about the man but he doesn't even look like a thinker!

I think you have it right. Long term these youngsters are going to click for England – and sometime, some when a Celtic side will get a walloping again. Probably Wales at HQ next year.

He does worry me Robinson. Amazing blind spots.

The Paul situation is ridiculous. A nail in the coach's coffin.

Without full squad details yet to hand it looks like he has not been selected. Common sense may have prevailed.

*edit* No such thing. Paul makes the bench!!!

Is Robinson a total ******???

Paul on the bench – Smith wasted in an A game? Even Tait again was a better option.

You haven’t seen Henson because he is very new to the setup. He figured in the autumn but Saturday was his first six nations game. He is 23 and this last year has improved immeasurably. His victim Tait turned 19 on Sunday – I bet that was a happy birthday!

The trajectory of his boot had nothing to do with stepping over the ruck. If it did, his foot was going to land ten feet the other side of the ruck.

Having seen his club game disciplinary record after the Dallaglio stamping incident I cannot argue with you. It’s a poor record.

Frankly, apart from Kay's game on the weekend, I haven't seen an England lock worth a pinch since J**** retired.

I am not arguing with you here - simply because you haven't seen the best we have now. I complained last year when the combination became Grewcock-Borthwick with an out of form Kay as backup (and he now looks to be back to form thank goodness). The Bath combination has never impressed me, Tigers bias aside. Shaw was injured and has never really got back after the summer tour then killed his career (and injured him again by the by). When Jonno retired I personally would have gone straight to the young uns from the A side I named earlier - with Kay mentoring. But that is clearly just me.

Okay my thoughts on the squad. Great to see Corry fit. You saw his dislocation didn’t you Finbar? He should really add some go forward as indeed should Moody. Vickery for White is for injury – time for Phil to pretend it is five years ago. And Ellis for Dawson is sensible, as is Moody for Hazell. And the fact that Worseley shuffles to blindside kicking Jones out the 22 altogether makes my day.

The downs? Paul obviously. Isn’t six chances enough to know any answers? Noon at 13 – strange choice, particularly after the coach calls Smith “an explosive talent” on Monday and those words will never trouble Noon’s CV I suspect.

If England win it will be the old way – through route one. But our midfield is under huge threat from the French combo. Hmm – could be a case of who plays the worst on the day. After all France were worse against Scotland than we were against Wales – I dare Tamerlin to deny that!

Oh yes and finally for Ravagon’s benefit Steve Walsh sucks as a ref – but for once is not responsible for England losing – that was all their own work.

[Havak]

Gatland is leaving Wasps a year early at his own request. With them out of Europe and in danger of not making the play offs he seems to have caught a touch of the "Sir Clive's".

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Havak
... I dare Tamerlin to deny that!

I won't, I hate to say this but I am often sad when I see France playing since a few years. A good game at times is not enough.

[Havak]

Having lost 7 from 10 tests I very much understand where you are coming from. Rebuilding is painful - and not helped by a coach who makes bizarre decisions such as Steve Thompson retaining his starting place.

The trouble is France have a settled side that on paper should be formidable - performances like NZ and Scotland simply should not come from them?

Good to see Guscott in his BBC column saying Smith should be there - at least it means I am not alone thinking he is a far better choice than Noon. Here is hoping Smithy gets a hat trick in the A fixture so Robinson cannot ignore him again.