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Eliminate the Electoral College

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  • And GePap, did he in your opinion do a good job as mayor?
    http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

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    • No one ever sees anyone standing up for the states' rights to protect their citizens


      As well as what DD said, after Bowers v. Hardwick, it was the states that decriminalized homosexual actions, when the federal government said it was ok to discriminate (up until Lawrence v. Texas.

      -

      Oh, and the President is not supposed to be the executive of the people, but over the states and the federal appartus. Remember in the old Articles of Confederation, the President of the Congress was picked by an equal vote of the States.

      Anyway, I hate this states aren't soveriegn, the people are BS. States most definetly are soveriegn and certain states are in the forefront of changing attitudes (such as Massachusetts being at the forefront of legalization of gay marriage, when the feds would probably like to ban it).
      “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
      - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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      • Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
        No one ever sees anyone standing up for the states' rights to protect their citizens


        As well as what DD said, after Bowers v. Hardwick, it was the states that decriminalized homosexual actions, when the federal government said it was ok to discriminate (up until Lawrence v. Texas.

        -

        Oh, and the President is not supposed to be the executive of the people, but over the states and the federal appartus. Remember in the old Articles of Confederation, the President of the Congress was picked by an equal vote of the States.

        Anyway, I hate this states aren't soveriegn, the people are BS. States most definetly are soveriegn and certain states are in the forefront of changing attitudes (such as Massachusetts being at the forefront of legalization of gay marriage, when the feds would probably like to ban it).

        Which is why I'm torn somewhat between respect for states' rights and its historical use of beatng down minority groups.

        It seems that recently, states' rights is beginning to turn away from being a means to repress minority groups, and god forbid -- be used for real, constructive purposes.


        So I think I'm warming up more to states' rights now, due to the recent changes, such as the way individual states are trying to enact equal rights regardless of sexual orientation, or other important issues.

        If this kind of positive change continues in regards to states' right, then great.
        A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

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        • Originally posted by Ming
          I think the EC has long outlived it's real purpose. This lose the state by one vote crap and get nothing for it is just stupid. It is also another way to keep third party candidates out of the way.
          I agree with Ming.
          To us, it is the BEAST.

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          • Originally posted by The diplomat
            It would be a disaster to get rid of the EC. Without it, large population centers would have too much influence in the election, people living in rural areas would essentially have no vote. After all, why both campaigning in small towns in the midwest when NYC has several million voters?

            We must keep the EC system so that every state has a fair role in the election and is not disenfranchised.
            Wrong... abolishing the electoral college evens the playing field.

            1 person, 1 vote... no more winner take all bull****.

            but as a right winger, I know you hate real democracy.
            To us, it is the BEAST.

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            • Originally posted by Sava
              1 person, 1 vote... no more winner take all bull****.

              but as a right winger, I know you hate real democracy.
              I want "1 person, 1 vote" in my State. I want my state to be able to hold its own among larger states. Why should the issues that are important to Californians be thrust upon Tennesseans? We are further apart than Europe is wide. (well...almost.)
              "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

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              • Originally posted by GePap
                What the hell does all this small state crap have to do with electing a president? The SENATE is the greatest power that small states have, NOT the EC.
                I have to agree with GePap here. The Senate is the great equalizer. The Senate would protect the minority interests of the small states.

                The EC was formed because the founding fathers didn't fully trust the people.

                I said this before, but it bears repeating.

                If the presidential election was decided strictly on the popular vote. Individual states wouldn't matter anymore. The candidates would have to appeal more to specific demographics.

                In other words they would have to travel to places they would never usually go.
                "In Italy for 30 years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed. But they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love. They had 500 years of democracy and peace. And what did that produce? The cuckoo clock."
                —Orson Welles as Harry Lime

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                • I don't consider Tennessee to be a small state. . without the electoral college, big cities in Tennessee would still be important to politicians.

                  State like mine are small. And even my state isn't as small as it used to be. we actually have 5 electoral votes now.

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                  • I want "1 person, 1 vote" in my State. I want my state to be able to hold its own among larger states. Why should the issues that are important to Californians be thrust upon Tennesseans? We are further apart than Europe is wide. (well...almost.)
                    How, exactly, does the electoral college have anything to do with de-centralized governance?
                    "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                    -Bokonon

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                    • Originally posted by PLATO
                      While the Civil war did radically degrade the power of the States, I believe that it is important that it not be degraded further.


                      Why? I don't see anything inherently special about the states anymore, and I don't see why there should be anything. The states should essentially be administrative districts, and the point of state's rights now IMO is only to keep the federal government from messing with stuff that can be done much better at a local level (schools, etc.).

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                      • Originally posted by Kuciwalker
                        Originally posted by PLATO
                        While the Civil war did radically degrade the power of the States, I believe that it is important that it not be degraded further.


                        Why? I don't see anything inherently special about the states anymore, and I don't see why there should be anything. The states should essentially be administrative districts, and the point of state's rights now IMO is only to keep the federal government from messing with stuff that can be done much better at a local level (schools, etc.).


                        no way. each state has it's own culture. It makes it a joy to travel accross america to see all of them. If they are all the same, what's the point of seeing them?

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                        • Originally posted by chegitz guevara


                          I'm a Floridian in that I live in Florida. I do not consider my self identity to be a Floridian in the way I consider myself to be an American. It used to be people were Virginians before they were Americans. States are where we live, not who were are.
                          You're a commie, you're not allowed to call yourself American

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                          • I consider myself a Nevadan before an American. America suck anyways. Damn country illegally invading other countries. My state has never done that.

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                            • Originally posted by Kuciwalker
                              the point of state's rights now IMO is only to keep the federal government from messing with stuff that can be done much better at a local level (schools, etc.).
                              This has always been the point. Some things at the local level that are important vary from state to state.
                              "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

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                              • Originally posted by Dissident
                                I consider myself a Nevadan before an American. America suck anyways. Damn country illegally invading other countries. My state has never done that.
                                Just whored itself to criminal gangs.
                                I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                                For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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