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Iraq is NOT a quagmire!!!

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  • Iraq is NOT a quagmire!!!

    What's happening in Iraq is normal. It's called a war. In war, people die.

    Anybody that thinks that we can defeat terrorists and fight for our interests and not take casualties is living in lala land. We are probably going to suffer a whole lot more than 1000 deaths before the war on terror is over.

    We better have the strength of will to persevere no matter how many casualties or we have already lossed. I can guarantee the terrorists weon't give up after taking 1000 casualties. They will keep fighting because they believe in their cause. Do we? Do we believe in what we are fighting for? Are we willing to die for freedom?
    'There is a greater darkness than the one we fight. It is the darkness of the soul that has lost its way. The war we fight is not against powers and principalities, it is against chaos and despair. Greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope, the death of dreams. Against this peril we can never surrender. The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.'"
    G'Kar - from Babylon 5 episode "Z'ha'dum"

  • #2
    "Are we willing to die for freedom?"

    Personally? No.
    Jon Miller: MikeH speaks the truth
    Jon Miller: MikeH is a shockingly revolting dolt and a masturbatory urine-reeking sideshow freak whose word is as valuable as an aging cow paddy.
    We've got both kinds

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    • #3
      To add one thing: WW2 was a whole lot worse than Iraq. Nobody called WW2 a quagmire. So, what's up with this ridiculous notion that Iraq is a quagmire simply because we suffered some losses.
      'There is a greater darkness than the one we fight. It is the darkness of the soul that has lost its way. The war we fight is not against powers and principalities, it is against chaos and despair. Greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope, the death of dreams. Against this peril we can never surrender. The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.'"
      G'Kar - from Babylon 5 episode "Z'ha'dum"

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      • #4
        I don't think people equate quagmire with taking some personnel losses in combat.
        "The French caused the war [Persian Gulf war, 1991]" - Ned
        "you people who bash Bush have no appreciation for one of the great presidents in our history." - Ned
        "I wish I had gay sex in the boy scouts" - Dissident

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        • #5
          Could it be that one of the reasons so many question this war, is because Bush and the advisors in his administration cannot even admit that there are serious problems in Iraq that they need to address?
          A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

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          • #6
            Could it be that one of the reasons so many question this war, is because Bush and the advisors in his administration cannot even admit that there are serious problems in Iraq that they need to address?
            Or it could just be that Europe is still angry over losing it's lucrative business deals with Saddam and they can no longer skim money off the oil for food program. That's probably what it is.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by MalevolentLight


              Or it could just be that Europe is still angry over losing it's lucrative business deals with Saddam and they can no longer skim money off the oil for food program. That's probably what it is.
              There must be a hell of alot of Europeans in the US, then.
              "The French caused the war [Persian Gulf war, 1991]" - Ned
              "you people who bash Bush have no appreciation for one of the great presidents in our history." - Ned
              "I wish I had gay sex in the boy scouts" - Dissident

              Comment


              • #8
                Some European countries are just as guilty of corruption and deceit in regards to Iraq, as the Bush administration in United States is.
                A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

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                • #9
                  Re: Iraq is NOT a quagmire!!!

                  Originally posted by The diplomat
                  What's happening in Iraq is normal. It's called a war. In war, people die.
                  I thought peace was declared a year ago? The war's supposed to be over, they're just losing the peace, losing the support of Iraqi nationals and stirring up hatred, as well as doing an admittedly valuble job trying to keep the peace.

                  Originally posted by The diplomat
                  Do we believe in what we are fighting for? Are we willing to die for freedom?
                  No and no. I don't believe that Bush's war against terrorism is the best way to solve this, and I'm not prepared to die for freedom. We're not going to change our laws because of Islamic fundamentalists, and IMHO, more will die fighting for freedom than will die in terror attacks if we don't. By a long, long way.
                  Smile
                  For though he was master of the world, he was not quite sure what to do next
                  But he would think of something

                  "Hm. I suppose I should get my waffle a santa hat." - Kuciwalker

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                  • #10
                    You don't have much freedom if you are dead.
                    Jon Miller: MikeH speaks the truth
                    Jon Miller: MikeH is a shockingly revolting dolt and a masturbatory urine-reeking sideshow freak whose word is as valuable as an aging cow paddy.
                    We've got both kinds

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by MalevolentLight
                      Or it could just be that Europe is still angry over losing it's lucrative business deals with Saddam and they can no longer skim money off the oil for food program. That's probably what it is.
                      And that would make US citizens against the war?

                      So if we invade Saudi Arabia, and remove the lucrative deals that the US has with them, that would be fine with the US?
                      Smile
                      For though he was master of the world, he was not quite sure what to do next
                      But he would think of something

                      "Hm. I suppose I should get my waffle a santa hat." - Kuciwalker

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Are you seriously comparing Iraq with WWII?

                        If you compares Saddam to Hitler, are you admitting that USA armed Hitler and then fight against him?

                        Bad news for you: Saddam is not Hitler. I'm not defendig him, but NOBODY is Hitler.

                        Saddam doesn't try to invade Europe, not even Israel. And if Kuwait were an orange producer in place of oil, the first Gulf War neves has been existed.

                        The argentinean dictators in the 70's has broken the human rights, the freedom. Has taked the lives of thousands of people. Has mounted concentration fields. But the US government never come to "fight for freedom". In fact, Kissinger come here a lot of times to elogiate they.

                        In a war, people is killed. But, was Iraq a war or an invasion?

                        Stop your Bush advertising, please.
                        Cuando un dedo señala la luna, los tontos miran el dedo. (del Mayo francés)

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                        • #13
                          Part of Iraq was a quagmire, but Saddam had it drained years ago.
                          “It is no use trying to 'see through' first principles. If you see through everything, then everything is transparent. But a wholly transparent world is an invisible world. To 'see through' all things is the same as not to see.”

                          ― C.S. Lewis, The Abolition of Man

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                          • #14
                            BTW: I am prepared to figth and die for freedom. For my own freedom, and for the freedom of my own people. I wish all the people in the world were free, but if the "fight against terrorism" redices the freedom even in the US....
                            Cuando un dedo señala la luna, los tontos miran el dedo. (del Mayo francés)

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by The diplomat
                              To add one thing: WW2 was a whole lot worse than Iraq. Nobody called WW2 a quagmire. So, what's up with this ridiculous notion that Iraq is a quagmire simply because we suffered some losses.

                              The difference was that in WWII you faced conventional armmies of nation-states and once you defeated them, the war ended.

                              Iraq is a quagmire. There is little demonstrated effect on the terrorists and I suspect that some to many of the people fighting the Americans now are only doing so since they view them as an occupying force and would not necessarily be willing to engage in terrorist acts against civilians.

                              There is no discernible end to the Iraqi situation and this result was predictable from the start. The losses are not what makes Iraq a quagmire . .. its the inability to easily extract yourself from the muck
                              You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo

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