AU 504 - DAR 1: 4000BC-2150BC

[Krill]

This is the DAR ("During Action Report") thread for the first 40 turns of AU504 - The Glory of Culture.

Use this space to discuss early-game moves, and plans for the future. For instance, where did you found your capital, and why? Since this report only spans 40 turns, please provide as many details as you can remember.

- Dominae

[Krill]

The Life of The Wierd and Wonderful Warmonger Gandhi


When Gandhi woke up on this grey Sunday morning, all he wanted was a nice cup of tea, to read his newspapers and have a good lie in.

Such a pity that he then remembered that his people did not know how printing presses worked, had not made a road to the sugar that Gandhi loved so much, and were so lazy that they required even his feeble hands to help them finish there jobs this millenia.

Gandhi had dicided to have his people settle on their arid plains, on the understanding that the leftovers from the wheat in the nearby fields would improve the soil of their camp. He then sent some of his workers to gather some food from the wheat, and remembering that his workers were mostly slackers started to look for some more people to send as workers to improve the Indians land.

Having found enough people to complete another work gang, Gandhi started on his plans to build large granary. Unfortunatly it would be a while before his architects came back with a complete plan, so he had is labourers prepare the basic building blocks of clay. Shortly afterwards, Gandhi began to wonder if his incompetent architects would be able to give his labourers the plans forthe granary before the huge stack of clay bricks collapsed under their tremendous weight. As it turned out he had to run the plans himself to his labourers just as the mound of bricks was beginning to collapse, but the labourers were able to move most of the bricks and begin constructing the granary quickly and efficiently. Gandhi blew out a large sigh of relief that he had not made such a stupid blunder so early in his plans.After a few centuries, he finally finished building his granary, and send settlers out to build new camps to train up some wariors.

One day Gandhi was walking aimless along, planning on what he should build in all these new cities when he bumped into something. It turns out that this "Thing" is the Great Xerxes, the emperor of mighty Persia, who looks a little green. Gandhi goes to offer him a paracetomol, but then he remembers that his people have yet to understand "Medicine". Xerxes seems so sick that Gandhi leaves him in peace, and chooses to talk to him later to ask him how his day was.



Now for the basics: Build queue = worker->Granary->settler (in 3 turns)->4 turn settler pump

Bombay founded in 2550 BC, builds 4 warriors, temple then barracks,

Madras founded in 2470 BC, builds 2 warriors, then a granary,

Bangalore founded in 2310 BC, builds 2 wariors then a temple,

Military: 4 warriors, 3 workers and one settler

Met Persia, who have BW, WC, masonry, minus alpha, pottery and CB.

[jshelr]

I was not able to delete this post -- but the content has been moved to thread two

[punkbass2000]

Not too much to report. AU mod, Emperor. Founded three cities. Two temples up and running, third in the works. Have four warriors (one from a hut) and two workers. Traded Alphabet + CB for WC, BW and MAsonry from the Chinese, Persians then had no techs to offer. Will research Writing in ten turns. Will build SoZ in near future. Hoping somebody nearby has Pottery!

EDIT: Oh yes, one curragh too.

[Theseus]

That is a wonderfully done pre-build for the SoZ, jshelr!!

[punkbass2000]

When should DAR 2 be started?

[Dominae]

Now! Someone (ideally Nathan) needs to decide what the cutoff date or event is, and then anyone should just start a new thread.

[Krill]

DAR 2 should be the next forty turns (turns 41-80 inclusive), if we follow how the DARs for the other Conquests AU courses were set out.

[Tarquinius]

Monarch Au-Mod (Now I am regretting I did not start on emperor..)

Hi all, decided to pop in again, after a lazy summer. I like this course. I am looking forward to see how the masters play this, so I can learn form them

What a great start. When I saw the second wheat I decided to go for two early granaries, to pump out cities really fast. Maybe setting up the capital earlier would have been better, but I wanted to try this.

I settled on the spot.
Capital builds: Worker-warrior-settler-temple-granary
Bombay founded 2800 BC, 777 from Delhi.
Bombay builds: warrior-temple-worker-granary

I was really lucky with huts, from my first huts I got Warrior Code and a settler (in 2510 BC)

I met the other civs quite quickly although I had only one, rather late, exploring unit.
In 2150 BC I was up CB and Pottery on both China and Persia.

In 2150 BC I had: 3 cities, 3 warriors, 3 workers, 1 Granary, 2 Temples.

Here my plans for the future were : expanding quickly, filling in the lands with a lot of cities. Those cities start building temples immediately. Maybe start some minor wars with the other civs to keep them busy and cut them off from ivory. (I only later realized I should have researched Mathematics a lot earlier. Now probaly Persia or Cina will build the Statue of Zeus if they lose a wonder race and have to switch...)

And the screenie from 2150 BC:

[Tarquinius]

Jshelr: if that is a 2150 BC screenshot I really bow to you... 6 cities

[jshelr]

We are speedy and a bit calendar-challenged

[punkbass2000]

Originally posted by Krill
DAR 2 should be the next forty turns (turns 41-80 inclusive), if we follow how the DARs for the other Conquests AU courses were set out.

Uh-Oh

[Modo44]

I'm playing AU mod, Monarch level. Normally it would be Emperor, but I'm still well capable of loosing at that level. The start looks very nice, so it's probably going to be an easy game.

Settled on the spot. Luckily it was a lake on the horizon, not sea.

Researched Pottery at max right from the start. Had to adjusting the lux slider, since no MP units are available and the city grows fast.

Now the fun part - my first build was a settler, completed right when the city reaches 4 pop, 3350 BC. Probably a bad thing to do, but not suicidal - at least on Monarch. Since the second build would probably be a granary, I need a second city ASAP, to put a temple in it. Cultural race, remember?

[Modo44]

Yes, Im using governors to handle my people. I set them to production and trade, so their choices are mostly what I would have done myself. Plus I never have to worry about riots.

The settler went towards the mountain to take a look. And what he saw, I liked.

Second build was a warrior for scouting purposes. Hopefully my last regular unit in this game. He went south and then counterclockwise around my territories.

Then I built the Granary. No temple in the capital, yet. It will be built inbetween settlers.

Here's the Fool on the Hill.

[Modo44]

After researching Pottery, I switched to Writing, at minimum science.

After finishing the Granary, a second Settler party was ready to depart. They went south.

My worker handling is crappy, I know.

In 2150BC I have 2 cities (3 in a turn), 2 workers, 1 warrior (exploring west), 1 granary and 1 temple. I'm first in population and family size, but second in GNP, Land area and MFG Goods. This should change soon, as my settlers fill all the good land that is available.

Do you think I should build the Temple in Delhi now, or switch to a Settler (it would finish in 3 turns as well)?

Here's my beginning of an empire at 2150 BC:

[Dominae]

Settler.

From your last screenshot I see you're running a Gold surplus. I recommend you crank your Science up to research faster. Getting techs before the AI allows you to trade them around, which often doubles or triples their worth in Commerce.

[Modo44]

I did the Settler before reading this. A temple would make the city grow too much, I figured.

I know about the research, but I'm still getting used to researching with a cash loss. I only recently learned to use the powerful early Granaries to my advantage. Still learning from you guys.

[Arrian]

Decided to try out the AU Mod, but since I was doing that, I stuck with Monarch. The other option was to play stock/emperor.

Settled on the spot.

Built a worker, then 2 warriors, then a settler, then a temple (complete in 2710 bc). Popped the hut near the start and got a conscript warrior.

I met China and Persia, and was able to swing a tasty trade:

[Arrian]

In 2150 bc, we are 1 turn from writing, have 3 cities with another settler team on their way to build city #4, but as yet have no granaries (indeed, we lack pottery).

We have lost 1 warrior to barbs, which was irritating, as he was fortified on a forest tile, but otherwise things are going well. The hut to the far west has been saved for popping later, hopefully to give us a juicy tech or somesuch.

-Arrian

[Aqualung71]

AU504 – Emperor , AU Mod

After much deliberation, Guru Ravi Shankar decided to settle on the spot, and the unusually named town of Holy Grail was established! The potentially unusable coastal tile was not worth worrying about, and we could always put a coastal town down to make use of it later. Besides, after much study, it was clear that there was only one tile of water, so it is unlikely to be coast. Upon settling, this was confirmed. In fact, coast was sighted 2 tiles west, which would have made the alternative choice of settling on the GL northwest sub-optimal, particularly with a turn lost. The downside of course is that I would really have loved that Gold mountain in my capital city radius, but you can’t have everything Overall, a pretty good start location.

4000BC: Worker moved to the Wheat. Irrigation first, since this will finish at the same time as growth to pop 2, thus giving us +5F for a 4 turn pre-pottery growth rate – not to be sneezed at! Meanwhile, Pottery researched at 100%. Also in an unusual move for me, I have started building a Worker first rather than a Warrior, since early commerce and production boosts will have a cumulative impact and with all this food, growth will be pretty quick. The luxury slider will be used to control happiness, and exploration will just have to be delayed a few turns. No settlers will be produced until a Granary is in place anyway.

3750BC: Growth to size 2, now +5F. Worker irrigating. Slider set to 20%.

3650BC: Worker built. Sent north to river BGL. Warrior next.

3600BC: First Worker completes roading, also sent to BGL near river.

3550BC: Grow back to pop 2. Both workers roading.

3500BC: Road finished, now mining.

3350BC: Warrior finished – sent exploring. Another started. Slider back to 30%.

3300BC: Warrior sights another Wheat

3250BC: Second Warrior built. Slider moved back to 10%. Temple started.

3000BC: Pottery researched. Temple build switched to Granary with 7 turns to go. Meanwhile, Forest chop started.

Thucydides informs us that the Indians, as the smallest nation on earth, are well and truly “forgotten”. Oh well, he will regret his mistake some day.

2800BC: A landmark year for India. Our Forest chop finished off our first Granary. Our intrepid exploring Warrior meets his Persian counterpart. Now Ravi is faced with his first important strategic decision. Should he intentionally restrict the pace of technological growth in this ancient world? Some expert advisors may recommend this strategy. However, Ravi’s thirst for technological expansion prevails, bringing him nearer to more cultural goodies. Xerxes’ agrees to trade Masonry, Bronze Working and 10g for our Pottery and Alphabet. Our 4-turn settler pump is almost established.

2510BC: Mountain Bay founded in what appears to be a rather good defensive position, Warrior started. This may end up being a Worker camp.

2390BC: Port Sludge founded amongst delta Flood Plains and desert. Curragh started.

2190BC: Fort Sherwood founded – another good defensive location from a westerly attack. Warrior started.

2150BC: The first DAR ends with our REX in full swing, with 4 towns founded and a Settler on the way to founding a 5th. The Persians are sniffing around quite closely however, so we need to improve our defences, which currently stand at only 3 Warriors. There's also a Barb approaching, so we need to be careful!

The initial 2 Workers have done an excellent job in improving the land, but with 5 towns within a couple of turns, many more are now needed. We will therefore give Delhi a break from Settler duty and produce a few more Workers. Meanwhile, our first exploratory Curragh is on the way, one more town is dedicated to Warriors and then the first 4 towns will be switched over to Temples to get the culture part of the game moving. We also need to fit in some more Granaries.

So much to do, so little time

[Risa]

As my first game in three months, I have to relearn some skills during the course. The cost is, several sub-optimal choices.

4000bc: I sent worker to east, got the report that body of water is only a small lake, and there's a hut on the other side. So settled down right on the spot. With great surplus of food, I decided to train a worker then a settler, let the second city to do with scouting and guarding.
There came my first mistake. I deliberately left the hut alone for fear of early barbarian harassment, without remembering there won't be any barbarian before I have a single military unit. Fortunately when I popped it with warrior later, it's 25g, not barbarian.
The first worker work toward southeast and the second toward northwest.
3050bc: Bombay was founded 4 tiles northwest from Delhi. It's set to train warriors.
2950bc: Pottery done, study of writing started. Prebuild in Delhi was changed to granary.
2850bc: First warrior trained in Bombay. Sent him east to pop the hut and look for friends.
2670bc: A Chinese archer showed up on south mountain barrier. They had bronze working, warrior code and masonry, but showed no interest in fair trade, yet.
2510bc: Our first warrior scout met Persian friend on east mountain barrier. This time both Persia and China were willing to fair trade. I taught them alphabets, they gave me all their techs and golds.
2470bc: Granary construction was finished in Delhi. The settler/worker pump got into working.
2230bc: Madras was founded on ivory tile. Curragh building began.
2110bc: All three countries had 3 cities by this time. I alone knew ceremonial burial, while Chinese mastered the wheel just that year. I had 3 workers, 4 warriors. The site of fourth city was already chosen (4 tiles northeast from Delhi), settler was nearly ready, and road to the site was on construction.

I forgot to save the game on that spot, so no screenshot available.

[nbarclay]

I started the game building a worker and then starting a temple as what I hoped would be a prebuild for a granary. Unfortunately, the timing didn't work out, so I ended up completiing my temple. That gave me a cultural lead that would last all game, but I would almost certainly have been better off with a couple warriors for exploration, defense, and/or military police duty.

As scenario designer, it was a bit frustrating knowing that there was wheat just out of sight to the north but not being allowed to use that knowledge. But to be faithful to my legitimate knowledge, I built Bombay by the ivory as my second city and Madras on the river as my third. Finally, a settler looking down from Gold Peak saw the wheat and, in 1050 BC, settled Bangalore.

I also had a problem with disease in Delhi somewhere along the line. I'm pretty sure it was during the period covered by this DAR, but it might have been in the period covered by the next one. (I've actually finished the game, but I don't like trying to write DARs when I'm tired and the game had me so captivated that I stayed behind on my sleep the whole time I was playing.)

[Arrian]

Doh. Wrong thread. Ignore.

[cracky]

Cracky's DAR1: AU mod, Monarch

This DAR is fairly sparse, I only wrote down the highlights. For instance, I don't know what year I met the Chinese, or which years I screwed up and had civil disorder in Delhi...

Built on the starting location, good the water to the NE is a lake and not the sea…

Pottery at full bore...

Built 1 warrior, got a second from the hut. Build changed to worker, then settler, then granary, then settler, then warrior. The next settler after that has one turn to go. I think I'll grab the second luxury with it . With Delhi growing so quickly, maybe I need a quick settler break for a temple....

3100 Pottery finished, started on WC (...for trading purposes. This ended up not working out because of our Militaristic neighbors)

(Met China somewhere in here. They refused all offers of one to one tech trading, so I ignored them for the time being.)

2510 BC: Met Perisa. Traded Alphabet for BW, Masonry, and 10 gold. (Reading some of the other DAR1's, it looks like I could have skipped researching WC and gone straight for writing. Arrian did the same Peria deal I did, but also got WC out of them.)

2150 BC. Okay. We have three cities with the fourth Settler 1 turn away. Three workers is clearly not enough, but I want to grab a bit more land before turning Bombay into as much of a worker pump as I can. (I think I should experiment with using Bombay as a worker pump to boost pop. in other cities... I've never really tried this before).

We're up CB and Pottery on Persia at last contact, and up CB, Pottery, and Alphabet on China. The standard REX is now in full swing. I'm not used to thinking about culture this early, so I think I'll stick with my standard opening and worry about culture once most of the available land is filled.

[cracky]

...and the screenshot...

[Tall Stranger]

OK, also don't have much to report here. Playing the AU Mod on Emperor. Chose to build at the starting location, and my initial queue was worker, 2 warriors, settler. Set out researching writing.

City spacing will, in most cases, be CxxC, so that I can maximize culture.

On or about 2900 BC, I founded my second city, Bombay, near the elephants.

2550 BC: Meet the Persians, trade Alphabet and Ceremonial Burial for Warrior Code, Bronze Working and 10 gold.

2510 BC: Found the city of Madras next to the other wheat.

22XX BC (not sure of the exact year): Meet the Chinese, trade Ceremonial Burial for Masonry and 11 gold.

2190 BC: Found Bangalore along the river to the west.

I think I'm going to try something a little unusual for me. There are 3 dyes (in addition to the one to the north of our starting location) in some jungle to the east. I may send my next settler way out there, hoping to corner the dyes market. That could be useful trade bait later in the game, but the disease could be a killer for me. I'll need to keep the Persians friendly for a while, because that outpost won't be very defensible.

[Gamecube64]

AU 504 Monarch-std

Ghandi was a dreamer, always thinking of large cities with towering cathedrals, ancient temples, and impressive wonders. Once he seized control of India he was prepared to make this dream come true, but was he prepared to contend with the others?

A warrior scout walking south discovered the chinese, from which large amounts of trade immediatly took place. A warrior going to the far east met the backwards persians, who were quite dull.

I'll get a picture up sometime soon.

[punkbass2000]

Just going to go into a bit more depth + screenshot.

Still AU mod Emp.

Built city on starting square, irrigated wheat.
Immediately begin building settler, research at 50 turns for Writing.

First settler goes NE to found Bombay. Start warrior in Delhi, settler in Bombay.
Finish warrior, Delhi starts settler.
Second settler SW to found Madras. Madras starts worker. Delhi throws out a quick temple and then onto another settler, I think.
Settler from Bombay NE to Dyes spot. (Will be founded turn after 2150BC.)
Settler from Delhi S to Bangalore.

Not too much else to add to my first post.

[Dominae]

I'll start with my notes, then I'll give a few comments:

4000BC: Worker moves SW onto Plains
	Settler founds Delhi
	Delhi begins Worker
	Research Pottery 
	Science 100%
3950BC: Worker begins Irrigation
3750BC: Delhi 2
	Worker completes Irrigation, begins Road
	Luxuries 20%
3650BC: Delhi completes Worker2, begins Settler
	Delhi 1
	Worker2 moves E onto River Bonus Grassland
	Science 100%
3600BC: Worker1 completes Road, moves 98 along Roads onto River Bonus Grassland
	Worker2 begins Road
3550BC: Delhi 2
	Worker1 begins Mine
	Luxuries 10%
3450BC:	Worker2 completes Road, begins Mine
	Contact China
3350BC: Delhi 3
	Luxuries 20%
3250BC:	Worker1 completes Mine, begins Road
3150BC:	Delhi 4
	Delhi completes Settler, begins Barracks
	Delhi 2
	Settler moves 12 along Roads onto River Plains
	Worker2 completes Road, moves W into Delhi
	Luxuries 10%
3100BC:	Settler moves SE onto Plains
	Worker1 completes Road, moves NW onto River Bonus Grassland
	Worker2 moves 12 along Roads onto Flood Plains	
3050BC:	Settler founds Bombay
	Bombay begins Warrior
	Worker1 begins Mine
	Worker2 begins Irrigation
2950BC:	Delhi 3
	Luxuries 20%
2850BC:	Worker2 completes Irrigation, begins Road
	Science 10%
2800BC: Pottery
	Delhi switches from Barracks to Granary
	Science 80%
2750BC:	Delhi 4
	Bombay completes Warrior, begins Worker
	Worker1 completes Mine, begins Road
	Luxuries 30%
2710BC: Worker2 completes Road, moves NW onto Flood Plains
	Luxuries 40%
2670BC:	Bombay 2
	Worker2 begins Irrigation
	Luxuries 30%
2630BC:	Delhi completes Granary, begins Settler
	Worker1 completes Road, moves S onto River Grassland
	Contact Persia
2590BC:	Worker1 begins Road
2540BC:	Delhi 5
2510BC:	Bombay completes Worker3, begins Worker
	Bombay 1
	Worker2 completes Irrigation, begins Road
	Worker3 moves SE onto Ivory Plains
2470BC: Delhi 6
	Delhi completes Settler, begins Settler
	Delhi 4
	Worker1 completes Road, moves 88 alongs Roads to Bonus Grassland
	Worker3 begins Road
	Settler moves 784 along Roads to Grassland
2430BC:	Bombay 2
	Settler founds Madras
	Madras begins Worker
	Worker1 moves W onto Wheat Grassland
2390BC:	Delhi 5
	Worker1 begins Irrigation
	Worker2 completes Road, moves 984 along Roads to Bonus Grassland
	Luxuries 20%
2350BC:	Worker2 begins Mine
	Worker3 completes Road, moves 78 along Roads to River Plains
	Ivory
2310BC: Delhi 6
	Delhi completes Settler, begins Settler
	Delhi 4
	Settler moves 789 onto Gold Mountains
	Worker3 begins Road
	Luxuries 20%
2270BC:	Settler moves E onto Grassland
2230BC:	Delhi 5
	Bombay 3
	Settler founds Bangalore
	Bangalore begins Temple
	Worker1 completes Irrigation, begins Road
2190BC: Bombay completes Worker4, begins Worker
	Bombay 2
	Madras 2
	Worker3 begins Irrigation
	Worker4 moves N along Road and begins Irrigation
	Luxuries 30% 
2150BC:	Delhi 6
	Delhi completes Settler, begins Settler
	Delhi 4
	Madras completes Worker5, begins Worker
	Madras 1
	Worker5 moves 66 along Roads to Forest
	Settler moves S onto River Plains
	Luxuries 20%
	Alphabet to China for Bronze Working, Masonry and 10 Gold
	Alphabet and Ceremonial Burial to Persia for Iron Working, Warrior Code and 10 Gold

[Dominae]

Comments:

1. Delhi's queue ended up being Worker-Settler-Granary-Settler+. Due to the cost of Pottery on Deity, it was not possible to build a Granary before the first Settler without limiting Delhi's 4-turn growth. I initially tried Worker-Worker-Granary, but this left Delhi rather large even for a Settler pump (with all the 2-Shield tiles available the pump need not be larger than size 3.5 at the beginning of its cycle). So, instead of transforming excess Food into Shields, I chose to put that Food to good use in a pre-Granary second city.

2. Bombay's location was borne out of necessity: I wanted to give it the Wheat Flood Plains tile for a couple of turns, so there were only a few places I could put the city. I would have liked for it to go on the Desert tile next to the Ivory, but that was too far away. I settled on the location you see in the screenshot above because I would be able to use the Flood Plains for some needed extra Workers and because of the availability of Ivory. I'm happy that the city coastal, for at least some long-term benefit.

3. I left it to the continent's AIs to find me rather than the other way around. Happily I saw that Nathan put us next to two civs that do not start with Alphabet, nor Pottery! I avoided trading with them right away, guessing (correctly) that they would not research Alphabet before some other critical techs (primarily Iron Working). My fear was that if I gave them Alphabet too soon they would start on Writing which in my experience the AI finds quite attractive. I monitered the trade value of Alphabet very carefully each turn to see if there was any drop, so my guess was not entirely a fluke.

4. For now, my plans are to REX first and focus on military and cultural matters later. Deity sort of straighjackets you into a certain style of play despite your overall objectives; only later will I have the freedom pursue the aims of this course. Temples will probably appear on my border settlements (via poprush) before they get build in my core cities, which are busy with pumping Settlers and Workers. The exception to this is Bangalore which will begin on a Wonder prebuild right after constructing my first Temple.

5. As you can see from the screenshot above, my current Settler is on its way to block a part of that isthmus to the Chinese. I'm not really happy about "wasting" a Settler on a location that will not provide much returns in the short-term, but then again controlling that area will likely be key down the road. Incidentally, I do not plan to settle right on the one-tile Plains chokepoint, because I want to leave the option open for being a floodgate for Chinese or Persian forces as they wage war on each other (eventually, I'll make sure of that!).

6. Stats:

Cities: 4
Population: 8
Settlers: 1
Workers: 5

Warriors: 1

Culture: 40