English! English! When did America stop speaking English?

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Verto
Official language
English as the official language
People who move to America, legally or illegally, and don't learn English

Might want to rething those smilies?

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
How about if all (legal) immigrants to the US who dont speak English were provided with the equivalent of an Ulpan - a period when the govt pays their upkeep while they learn English intensively full time?? I think in that case the aversion to social programs and "handouts" would overcome the cultural nationalism. Unfortunately, IMHO.

If you want to be a Canadian citizen via immigration, you have to take a test to show your proficiency in either English or French.

[Wernazuma III]

I understand the general problematic, but I don't agree on Spanish. After all, Spanish speakers in the Southwest are, well, not really aboriginal but at least as aboriginal to that area as English speaking people are at the East Coast. That should mean their language should be as acceptable in public as is English, including double language schooling etc. I'd consider everything else repressive against a national minority. We have traditional Slovenian, Hungarian and Croatian minorities in Austria and they are given special rights for using their language at school etc., while in numbers they are much less than, say, Turks.

[Agathon]

Why are you all complaining. The English have the right to complain: you Americans took their language and rendered it incomprehensible.

Then again, think of the Geordies....

[Last Conformist]

An NZer complaining of messing up English?

[Japher]

I generally don't complain about having to speak spanish now and than, which I am bad at but know enough words to get what I want.

What I do have a problem with is when you do go to the store or restaurant and when you order or whatever they don't have the decency to say "yo no se" or "no habla english" or whatever. What they should at least learn to say is "I don't speak English well, sorry." Still, half the time you just get a blank stare or a wrong order, thus wasting my time. Most of the ppl in my area that speak spanish, however, are learning english... But it doesn't get learned in a day, and I can contest to that having lived in CA all my life and still can't say that I speak spanish.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Tiamat
Si! Tiamat no esta aqui. Un mensai?

I think you mean "mensaje?" (message?)

Are you really surprised people with bottom-end jobs have bottom-end skills?

And besides, hate to burst your bubble, but nobody's "supposed" to speak any particular language here. First Amendment and all, so there's no "official" language. Where my niece and nephew live in Wisconsin, there are plenty of people whose families have been here for several generations who are primary German or Swede speakers, and their English is accented. Thank Abe Lincoln and Carl Schurz for that one.

You could try some parts of San Jose, where English was about the fourth language on the list.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Wernazuma III
I understand the general problematic, but I don't agree on Spanish. After all, Spanish speakers in the Southwest are, well, not really aboriginal but at least as aboriginal to that area as English speaking people are at the East Coast. That should mean their language should be as acceptable in public as is English, including double language schooling etc. I'd consider everything else repressive against a national minority. We have traditional Slovenian, Hungarian and Croatian minorities in Austria and they are given special rights for using their language at school etc., while in numbers they are much less than, say, Turks.

More specifically, the treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, formally ending the Mexican war and ceding what is now the southwestern US to the US, gave Mexican residents and their descendants the right to speak English in perpetuity. Same thing was done in the Lousiana Purchase with the grant of citizenship to any French inhabitants of the Louisiana territory.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Wernazuma III
I understand the general problematic, but I don't agree on Spanish. After all, Spanish speakers in the Southwest are, well, not really aboriginal but at least as aboriginal to that area as English speaking people are at the East Coast. That should mean their language should be as acceptable in public as is English, including double language schooling etc. I'd consider everything else repressive against a national minority. We have traditional Slovenian, Hungarian and Croatian minorities in Austria and they are given special rights for using their language at school etc., while in numbers they are much less than, say, Turks.

Most of the people in question are NOT descendants of pre-1848 hispanic communities - most are in fact recent immigrants from Mexico and elsewhere. The only really large pre-1848 hispanic community is in Northern New Mexico, IIUC. I for one would not have a problem with granting special rights to the Spanish language in Northern New Mexico - id consider it rather problematic to establish such rights across the entire Southwest. Indeed, the prospect of such rights, and ultimately calls for autonomy or independence inspire some of the paranoia about hispanic immigration.

I would say that making claims for the Spanish language in the Southwest based on its pre-1848 history is NOT the way to get the US to take a positive approach to immigration and diversity.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


More specifically, the treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, formally ending the Mexican war and ceding what is now the southwestern US to the US, gave Mexican residents and their descendants the right to speak English in perpetuity.

A right none of us want taken away, Im sure.

[lord of the mark]

i wonder what would happen if I went into McDonalds and tried to order in Yiddish?

"Gibt mir die "super size" bulbes, bitte."

[Last Conformist]

Where my niece and nephew live in Wisconsin, there are plenty of people whose families have been here for several generations who are primary German or Swede speakers, and their English is accented. Thank Abe Lincoln and Carl Schurz for that one.

There's still first-language Swedish speakers over there? Who'da thunk ...

[Japher]

You could try some parts of San Jose, where English was about the fourth language on the list

So true. I went to the asian market and the owners there spoke Vietnamese or Korean or something like that... Their second language was Spanish!

[Lefty Scaevola]

The USA just had not been the same since it quip speaking Algonquin and Siouian.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
i wonder what would happen if I went into McDonalds and tried to order in Yiddish?

Sadly, many Americans seem to think it's perfectly okay that, when abroad, they walk up to people and start speaking in English. If we expect people to speak English here, then why shouldn't we be expected to speak the vernacular of a country when traveling there?