Hwach'a, how good it is?

[player1]

Compared to Cannon it has just lethal bombardment.

But, usually you don't need Cannons with Cavarly around (at least until Infantry).

What's your opinion?
And what good strategies can be used by Korean UU?

[Swissy]

Not many. I usually trigger my GA with wonders when I play Korea.

[player1]

One thing that bugs me is that while having lethal bombard is good thing on paper, in realistic game you'll bomb units with more then 1hp much more often.

And in those cases Hwacha is as good as cannon no more.

And when you get units with one 1hp, Knights and Cavarly can be used to take them out too.

[BigFree]

Yeah, it's usually better to attack the 1 HP units with your elite units hoping for a GL/MGL. The "lethal bombardment" trait is pretty much worthless. They should have given it a better bombardment value.

[asleepathewheel]

the Hwacha (is that an echo?)

A stack of Hwachas and muskets are extremely powerful, if slow. If theres rough terrain, or across a medium distance, then they're perfect, over long stretches, speed is of more import of course.

A Hwacha/musket/scout knights force will take zero losses, meaning that the inertia will carry you to victory. Anything you build just adds up, no replenishment of forces other than for garrison purposes. Sometimes I whip up however many stacks I need, say 2-3, and let them go to work, focusing at home on other tasks.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Of late, Korea has become my favorite civ for ultra warmongering(tm). A strategy that's been developed as much out of horrendous luck than anything else, and involves some rather unique choices...

While lethal bombard is not all that usefull in land battles, as AATW says, it virtually eliminates losses. This makes for an ever growing army, (or home buildering for you builderers). While Cavalry alone are certainly effective, you will be taking losses. Why not pile it all into a nice stack escorting 30 hwacha and a few defenders to make a mockery of anything AI?

They can also make short work of any attempted naval landings since the AI is not always wise enough to stay out at sea if they aren't landing on that square. Greece just lost many a caravel in my current game...

While it should not really be an issue too often at this particular point in the game, it's worth mentioning that the hwacha needs no iron, and can be the perfect way of obtaining some for railroads and tanks...

[Mace]

Hwacha do have a higher bombard score than cannon.

If Hwacha were moved to 12 bombard, then they would be up with artillery, which is too much.

I have found the Hwacha to be useful, though not super-powerful, UU. It's an interesting way to trigger a GA, anyway. I need to play more Korea games to get a better idea about it.

[UnOrthOdOx]

One Q to anyone who might know.

Is it just a quirk that Hwacha gain experience?

While they do not have hit points, and I am hard pressed to find anywhere on the screen where it says what level individual hwacha are, they do gain promotions. I have a whole mess of "elite" hwacha's it would seem, mostly from sinking passing AI boats or annoying wandering pillagers when my cavalry were being put to better use elsewhere.

Let's see, there's 40 hwacha, I estimate 8 are elite and the rest 'veteren', based on promotion animations, but I cannot pick out WHICH are elite.

Is it possible to gain a leader from lethal bombard?

And Mace, in the latest patch to C3C hwacha have only 8 bombard. Same as cannon.

[asleepathewheel]

I've used a ton of hwacha's and never created a leader. I think its just another bug in the game, albeit harmless. It would be cool, if at least the vets and elites gained some advantage, maybe an extra bombard point per level.

[Kuciwalker]

I've had Dromon's gain experience through lethal bombard.

[gunkulator]

Don't bombers gain experience when they lethally bombard too?

[UnOrthOdOx]

Aye, but both bombers and boats have HP.

[Mace]

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx And Mace, in the latest patch to C3C hwacha have only 8 bombard. Same as cannon.

Oh. I only played Korea once, and that was probably 1.15 or even earlier.

Lethal bombard with the Hwacha is, IMO, pretty awesome. Seems like a powerful enough UU. All ya need is a nice stack with some hwacha's and some guard units and you can do some damage to anything up to Infantry.

[Mad Bomber]

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
One Q to anyone who might know.

Is it just a quirk that Hwacha gain experience?

While they do not have hit points, and I am hard pressed to find anywhere on the screen where it says what level individual hwacha are, they do gain promotions. I have a whole mess of "elite" hwacha's it would seem, mostly from sinking passing AI boats or annoying wandering pillagers when my cavalry were being put to better use elsewhere.

Let's see, there's 40 hwacha, I estimate 8 are elite and the rest 'veteren', based on promotion animations, but I cannot pick out WHICH are elite.

Is it possible to gain a leader from lethal bombard?

And Mace, in the latest patch to C3C hwacha have only 8 bombard. Same as cannon.

Any unit that does not have HP cannot gain experience, thus they do not create a leader. They can defeat units (w/Leathal) , however, which is enough to trigger a GA. Bombardment units can be modified to have Hp, and gain experience, but this also means they cannot be captured (I have my Artillery and Radar Artillery modded this way).

[Zero]

everyone wanted hwacha to have lethal bombard in ptw... now in c3c they say its useless....

make up yer mind.


I always prefered the old hwacha the way it was. And it wasnt similar to artillery. artilleries have range 2 and firepower also is 2. So arts are still better.

[Last Conformist]

Lethal bombardment pwns.

Unfortunately, Hwach'a come at roughly the time in the game in which bombardment units are the least useful - their lifespan is roughly equal to the era of total Cav dominance.

[justjake73]

Isn't that unit able to bombard sea units?

[player1]

All land artilleries are capable of bombing sea units.

But Hwach'a (and only Hwach'a) can kill them too.

[Barinthus]

Originally posted by Last Conformist
Unfortunately, Hwach'a come at roughly the time in the game in which bombardment units are the least useful - their lifespan is roughly equal to the era of total Cav dominance.

How can bombardment units be 'least useful'?

Mind you, I'm still wet behind the ears here at Civ3.

I like to build stacks with 2-3 defender units, couple of artillery units, few melee-type units, and couple of cavalry units. Cavs are for clearing out the territory ahead, artillery to soften up enemy positions for assaults by melee units and defenders for counterattacks.

Now I realize there's no difference between melee and cavalry units, I probably will focus more on cavalry.

I haven't read everything in topped threads in Stragety yet, is there something on military tactics in there? I'm slowly reading the thread one item at a time.