Krills' DAR

Krill · July 11, 2004, 23:08

Damn, I wanted Rome.

Please do not read this thread if:

1) You are playing as the Romans

OR

2) You have not yet explored the entire starting land mass.

OR

3) You have not yet entered the Middle Ages.

OR

4) You're Dom and (for some reason) drastically behind me (I can dream, can't I?) - Yes I can...

He looked out over fields and pastures. He watched the sublime waterfall power over the cliff and plummet majestically to the pool at its' base. He regarded his countrymen labouring to bring food and prosperity to their families.

Then he woke up. He was freezing, starving, deafened by the howling wind and drenched by the rain, and when he went to observe his new homeland he could barely make out the cattle that accompanyed them and promised them a succesful future. The band of men that followed him, not through any beliefs in a better future but through fear for their lives huddled together. Some of the women on the outside of the group were already near death, the children in their arms were closer still...

They could not travel any further, he mused, before to many died. If too many died, then his hope of a colony and underlings would vanish...they must settle here, he decided...but first the must make it through the night...If the Romans caught them...

Ok, DAR time:

Standard opening. Move worker to cow to save worker turns and explore.

Research pottery while building defence and scouts, then granary, then hopefully nice growth.

The holy banana should give 4 turn growth, when it is cut down, so more early workers and a priority, if there are enough bonus grassland tiles.

Comment as you see fit.

I need the help, since Dom out classes me in every department.

Irrigate then road, then move to forest chop.
Warrior then worker (I know, suicidal, but lets see what happens). The forest chop will be directed onto a hoplite, then a settler then Granary. I hope.

EDIT: I just noyiced that this is Demigod, and I have not really ever made an attempt to beat it, but I normally find it a little difficult in the beginning. Since we are not attacking the AI, I will need to REX like hell, so I will need that banana asap.

Harovan · July 12, 2004, 08:29

Strange, the other DAR threads are full of people complaining, that they actually got Rome.

I think I can give out this information freely (even though it's out of the spoiler threads), since it won't change anything. I seem to have screwed everyone. Looks like a job well done.

Arrian · July 12, 2004, 10:09

@ SR.

Krill: you may want to consider that cutting that banana will take so darn long it's not worth prioritizing right away.

With just the irrigated cattle, you can do 3-turn growth (with granary), and because that's actually overkill, you can drop to +2fpt for one turn per growth cycle (I wouldn't do it on the growth turn, because they you won't get the +2 shields from autoallocation to forest).

You have a lot of forest, too, some of which can be chopped. This can be used to punch out a few hoplites (or archers if you can trade for WC soon) in between settler builds.

-Arrian

Krill · July 12, 2004, 11:33

He had watched his small band of men and women grow. Now they numbered in their hundreds. But they were still not safe. They had no army, no other camps, just a mindless crowd doing nothing but farming to grow food for their families.

But that was about to change, for He was about to decided their fates this evening.

I thought that, while the stats of the hoplite are high, I would need to many to become average to the AI, thus spoiling the REX. I only have a couple of strats that are of any use at this level, since this is the first time I am really trying to beat demi.

1) 2 warriors then a granary (with 1 chop) then a settler... This gives me little defence, so I don't have much power to adapt.

2) 2 warriors, then hoplite with chop, then Granary.
This gives me more defence, but it will be a while before the REX starts. I would prefer this to plan 1 because it should only take about 3 extra turns, and that 3 defence will come in handy against anything up till and including swords.

3) warrior->worker->Hoplite->Granary= lack of exploration. No way will I do this, and give Dom an easy chance to subvert the AIs against me. There would be about 3 chops, so it would be quick and easy to build a defence and clear that jungle. Maybe.

4) Warrior->settler->Granary
New city: Warrior->Warrior->hoplite->Hoplite
The new city will be able to build enough units to defend and add to the exploration and Athens would be able to start the REX soon enough.

I like the last one the best, but I'm to lazy to do all of the calculations

vmxa1 · July 12, 2004, 13:04

I am not so sure that you need to rush out and explore at Demi and above.

The main reasons to explore is to get contacts and pop huts. Well you probably do not want to pop huts with regular warrirors.

Once you could use a Hop, then fine. The contacts are going to come very fast if they are sharing land with you as they have so many starting units. You may give up a chance to trade a tech, because some other civ had it and swapped it.

It depends on what techs you start with and who your neighbors are. So to me you could lose something, but probably not much.
If you are alone, then you have no need to rush out a warrior to scout.

vmxa1 · July 12, 2004, 13:07

Oh, I would not worry about Dom getting the others to gang up on you for some time.

It is likely Sir Ralph did not start the humans close together and it will be a long time before the AI will be able to find you. They will also need the tech to mke alliances.

Krill · July 14, 2004, 18:57

One night there was an attack. Wild animals had broken into the settlement, and had attacked the cattle. He, the Krill, would have his followers build around the cattle a large ditch filled with water, to stop anysuch attacks in the future. Asa preventative measure, He also decided to form a small group of underlings to explore for any posible dangers, be they human or otherwise. He would not leave his slaves undefended again.

After a while, when the land had become more used to their presence, He chose to send out a portion of his devotees to build another camp at the foot of a large mountain to the east, as protection from anything that came down from the mountains...He had hope that the people of the camp would become skilled at war, and would pass on their skills to their progeny.

OK, I have built a warrior, and will have a settler in 3 turns (3350BC?)

My one warrior has moved south east, in a straight line to look for some nice land. The next warrior and hoplite will defend, then another warrior to explore...(all from new town) while the capital starts the granary and REX.

Krill · July 15, 2004, 13:12

He awoke to see dawn. But this was not an ordinary dawn, it was the dawn of a new millenium. So many of His people had grown old and died, He had lost count, but to him it seemed that no more than a week had passed since He and his band of followers had arrived at this edge of the untamed Wilderness, and now the decendants outnumbered the original band a thousand to one. He had several roaming bands of fighters that were searching for dangers unknown. He had control over this, their capital city of large proportions, and another military camp of renegades and cut throats. His scientists had also begun working on making metals from rocks...He had ordered the construction of a large storeroom to store grain and wheat for the winter. Life was promising...

He was unsettled, nevertheless, by the rumours spread by the mysterious guide F11, who brought infomation of Rome, His pursuer. It was rumoured that the had a large city, almost twice as large as Athens. He was also unnerved by the lack of danger that had been uncovered. It was like the calm before the Storm...

Ok, It is the Dawn off the new millenium, I have 2 towns, Athens and Sparta. Sparta works the BG 1 of itself, and Athens works the cow/forest or cow/BG, to time the build of the granary so that it finishes one turn short of its' original completion date. Sparta has built one warrior, and will build another (completes one turn before growth bcause of PBEM game mechanics), and then 2 hoplites.

I have not yet met any of the AI

I am researching IW (I am not sure that I will be able to trade for it, and I am not sure that the wheel would still be undiscovered by the AIs when I finish researchng it/we contact eachother). I want to know where the iron is so that I can get some and use it in a trade to get a civ to attack Dominae.

(edited typos and added story)

Krill · July 15, 2004, 13:14

and F11: Dom seems to be aiming to produce an early granary without the early settler. While his method offers a faster REX, I want to settler bop so that I can have enough land to make use of COM, this being demi and the AI starting with 2 settlers...

Krill · July 20, 2004, 17:18

At last! News had filter back through His scouts that other peoples had been found!! From the first scouts to have left their lands, He heard of a series of Markers that proclaimed land far away to belong to the irate Persians and their leader Xerxes. The scouts had not yet encountered any of the Persians themselves, but He was hopeful that the Persians would at least trade fairly with Him.

His other scouts held news of a different kind. They had met a band of men from the Babylonians, and since it had not taken so long to meet them, then it probably meant that they were close to His cities already. They were also arrogant, a byproduct of being so technologically advanced, He deducted. While The Krill knew of pottery and the propeties of certain metals, the babs, as they were quickly nicknamed, also knew of brick making, how to make cirles of wood, had an honour code of warriors and proud ceremonies for burials and fabulous temples raised in devoution of the obscure god called RNG, or The Rather Nasty God, as it was to be called later...The only knowledge that He and his people possesed exclusively was the Greek alphabet, known from the start...What was it worth, He wonders...Some time later He gets a bargain from the Babs, trading His unique alphabet for the so-called warrior code and the secrets of plum lines and bricks...alls good on the diplomatic scene, it seems...but for how long until the Romans turn up??

Ok, I met the first AI in 2800BC: The Babylonians. They have:

The Wheel
Masonry
CB
WC

I have Pottery and Alpha.

I don't trade becasue I can see the Persians with my first warrior.

So on the next turn Babylon have acquired Pottery

Next turn I will trade alpha, I hope.

Krill · July 21, 2004, 13:06

ok, could people offer advice please? I have no idea of the tactics that work on Demi, and the special rules mean that I am going to play a wierd game unless people show my the correct way forward...

Arrian · July 21, 2004, 13:45

I've never even tried Demigod. Emperor is the highest level I'm familiar with.

That notwithstanding, my general thoughts:

1) Trade freely. If you don't, your opponent probably will.

2) Make sure you secure a couple of luxury supplies. I doubt there will be much of a trade market for luxuries, because you two will be buying off each other's allies constantly.

3) You live in a jungle. For now, I'd concentrate on cutting it down. Your hoplites can defend you pretty wel, although you will want some catapults & archers too, to help deal with any AI units that attempt to pillage.

4) Starting thinking now about how to get as much as you can out of an early, despotic GA. My thought would be to use it to crack out some key buildings in your core cities (granaries, barracks) and do some research and pray to the RNG for a SGL.

-Arrian

Krill · July 21, 2004, 14:15

1) I'll do that when the trun I get something to trade...

2) Need...to...explore..more...land...

3) 24turns/worker, so probably worth the lost turn to use 2 workers per tile. need another high food city, so the flood plains should help out, so that will be city number 3.

4) That does not sound like the other players are playing very nicely...some of Vels old threads might be in order, it seems...

Arrian · July 21, 2004, 15:13

24 worker turns for jungle chopping, yeah. In my SP games, I tend to use teams of 3, because that works nicely for roading & mining as well.

What I *should* have said was this, though:

You live in a jungle. Settle the best spots that are non-jungle as quickly as you can and then work on producing tons of workers while settling the jungle itself. Then dig in and chop.

-Arrian

Krill · July 21, 2004, 15:21

Thanks Arrian, I hope you enjoy watching all of these games, and keep the advice coming

Arrian · July 21, 2004, 15:22

I find watching them fascinating. And I get to play armchair general and not have to deal with the consequences if my advice is bad. Sweet!

-Arrian

Krill · July 21, 2004, 15:30

The Great Bobian war still in the back of your mind, Arrian?

and this is not Spam. The increase in PC might scare Dom and make him think I am up to something.

Arrian, (and other members of GS, although most are not allowed to read this thread), I have, and am, using the Voxian war and Bobian war (Updates from Spain) as the basis for some of the attacks in my PBEMs. Suprisingly, no one has learnt anything new...

Arrian · July 21, 2004, 15:45

The Voxian war was pretty straightforward: bombardment is powerful.

The Bobian war was more complex:

Maneuver is powerful.
Defending someone else's (crumbling) empire is really hard.
Avoiding battle unless the odds are favoreable is generally a good idea, but not always (if you have a shot at a stack of Riders on a jungle tile and the odds are roughly even... HIT THEM!).

I wasn't actually thinking of the Bobian war, though, Krill. I was just thinking of various gambles I've tried in SP that have failed. I'm always shooting for the moon in SP.

-Arrian

Krill · July 21, 2004, 15:54

The Voxian war was pretty straightforward: bombardment is powerful.

that and never sell maps to other humans...

ouch...in this game I will probably aim for leos (I like to build an SoD, then upgrade it when I have Feud, and it is out dated. Insta-heal is also nice). In this game I think I am going to need alot of horses. Do you think your old chariot->horseman->death and destruction will work on Dom? If I can cut his iron, I am in with a chance...

Arrian, shooting for the moon is all good and well, but when you achieve it as often as you do, some people become scared...

Arrian · July 22, 2004, 07:58

I don't think a mass horse rush will do well against Rome, Krill, because of legionaries. Even without legionaries, Dom will likely have vet/elite spears (barbs) and can throw up walls with ease (militaristic). Horsemen are probably best used as scouts/softeners, but you will need more punch. A knight rush might work, though... I dunno.

I fail plenty, too. I also play on a fairly low level. So it's not like I'm some sort of wizard. In fact, against someone like Dom, I'd probably get beaten like a red-headed stepchild.

-Arrian

Krill · July 26, 2004, 11:11

ok, I noticed that Persia had 3 workers and a slave next to my warrior. I thought, what the hell, the less workers he has, the less improved terrain, and the fewer settlers to contend with.

I bopped the northern worker, and (because I'm last) noticed that the worker pair are still in reach, but an archer moved out of the FoW.

Before:

Krill · July 26, 2004, 11:17

After:

Krill · July 26, 2004, 11:21

basic pic with info:

(update: seconds ago I got CB from a hut on Demi. Thank god I did not get barbs, or my 2 warriors woud be dead)

Krill · July 26, 2004, 11:24

(update: seconds ago I got CB from a hut on Demi. Thank god I did not get barbs, or my 2 warriors woud be dead)

I also met the Germanics, who have the now ubiquitous wheel and myst. I am 4 turns from IW, and no one has it yet. I may get lucky...

I also lost my persia warrior to an archer attack, yet i disbanded 3 workers, so I hope it was worth it...

Krill · July 26, 2004, 12:12

goddammit!!

Babylon discover IW 1 turn before me, and Egypt have been researching it, so I trade it to the Germanics for wheel+39 gold. It would cost me IW+4gpt+53gold to buy myst off Eygpt.

If only I had not declared war on Persia...only time will tell if that was a decent move...

Krill · July 26, 2004, 15:38

And I lose a settler to the barbs. Great. Persia has 4 vet archers heading my way. I have no chance to beat the AI, get peace or even get another pump up. Is this start similar to the ISDG start?

Tassadar500 · July 26, 2004, 15:44

The ISDG's start was worse.

Krill · July 26, 2004, 15:46

true, and I got bananas

Krill · July 27, 2004, 19:53

er, one reg hoplite, one vet archer, and one 1 pop town to Persia, whom I declared war on my self

If I don't get peace from them I will lose my other towns (I only have 3 decent towns, 2 have barracks, my capital has a granary, but is maxed out at size 5, producing archers, while the others produce hoplites)