Uni lith instead of Uni Tol?

[AvA_Majestic]

I just played through an 8 play imposs huge using the standard uni, +1 prod, lHW, but with lithovore instead of tolerant.

With a start that could only be described as average, I still ended up absolutely dominating (which considering i'm not as good as most of the people on here, and frequently struggle on this game setting, is a surprise), in a game that included silicoids, psilon, klackon, etc.

It seems to me that except in the earliest parts of the game lithovore is up to tolerants level with production, and beats it on tech and expansion. You dont get the population bonuses, but other than that it seems superior?

In the early game you can research much faster than a tol, and your production capabilities are similar. You take a fairly hard hit from pollution, but you can have some guys on research some on production to keep it from being pollution dominated. Once you get pollution processor things rapidly start to improve.

Has anyone done the math comparing the two?

I've not seen UniLith +1 prod LHW mentioned much, but I found it very powerful.

[Dunnagan]

Originally posted by AvA_Majestic
I just played through an 8 play imposs huge using the standard uni, +1 prod, lHW, but with lithovore instead of tolerant.

With a start that could only be described as average, I still ended up absolutely dominating (which considering i'm not as good as most of the people on here, and frequently struggle on this game setting, is a surprise), in a game that included silicoids, psilon, klackon, etc.

It seems to me that except in the earliest parts of the game lithovore is up to tolerants level with production, and beats it on tech and expansion. You dont get the population bonuses, but other than that it seems superior?

In the early game you can research much faster than a tol, and your production capabilities are similar. You take a fairly hard hit from pollution, but you can have some guys on research some on production to keep it from being pollution dominated. Once you get pollution processor things rapidly start to improve.

Has anyone done the math comparing the two?

I've not seen UniLith +1 prod LHW mentioned much, but I found it very powerful.

yeah that's a strong prewarp mix for sure. getting a colony base out in like 7 turns is nice. the only reason I never combine those two, is it feels like a 'waste' since liths dont need food, they lose out on the 50% food bonus uni offers.

otherwise, good pick. especially for a small map.

I just failed on a rush.
I had telepathic, artifacts world, +2 production. large hw i think also, I may be wrong.

I came out somewhat early, but the rush failed because I chose Alkari first, when I could have grabbed the klacks.

really dumb of me to not assume they already had ECM jammer- they DO have an artifacts hw.. im a tard irl for that.

[siron]

Ava.

Your race is well known.

You talk about pre? Or average?

In the case of pre your statement is true.

Lith means tech lead. Tech lead means earlier expansion.

(You can even skip the freighters first.)

Uni Lith is VERY strong there.

Of course, that race is also playable in average. (But the techlead isnt very significant for expansion there.)

But if uni tol finds some rich or urhg planet...you will have a problem. If there are no wormholes, you will almost surely be outproduced by uni tol.

But otherwise you can use your tech lead for early wartechs....You have them very fast even without super comp. And you have a fair chance to rape a uni tol....

[Iasius]

Another lithovore race I like is lith, subterranean, +growth, LHW (mostly for pre-warp, huge galaxy).
It's a slower start than tolerant or uni production wise, but in the beginning I usually research a lot (at least until labs, automatic factory and ships) and then you have so many people it makes up for the lost boni of tol or uni.

Lithovore races are pretty much the only ones where I even begin to match the AI in colonization. With most other races I tend to stay in my home system.

BTW what I don't quite understand is why democracy is so expensive with 7 picks. Sure the income and research boni are nice, but are they worth more than the boni of uni? Add in that you have -spy instead of +spy defense and anyone can steal your tech.
Ah well, democracy and lithovore are a great combination as well. Hmm, anything with lithovore is great.

[Brutalisk]

Iasus: replace +growth with artifacts as a variation.. i posted that on another thread for dunnagan

As for lith-uni, that as well I replied on another thread, lol.

Unfortunately uni-tol IS stronger, because of the no pollution. Unilith has the advantage of no food required so you have to base your strategy around that. What really sways it in favour of Uni-tol instead of uni-lith is the fact that you get more population per planet with uni-tol (you tend to get double the population with most planets , due to the +25% on the base population)

If for example the size of the planet could hold 16 population, yet because it's barren it holds only 4, then with tolerant you will have 8 instead of 4 and that's where the bigger bonus is when you compare it to lith which will only get 4

[Dunnagan]

Originally posted by Brutalisk
Iasus: replace +growth with artifacts as a variation.. i posted that on another thread for dunnagan

As for lith-uni, that as well I replied on another thread, lol.

Unfortunately uni-tol IS stronger, because of the no pollution. Unilith has the advantage of no food required so you have to base your strategy around that. What really sways it in favour of Uni-tol instead of uni-lith is the fact that you get more population per planet with uni-tol (you tend to get double the population with most planets , due to the +25% on the base population)

If for example the size of the planet could hold 16 population, yet because it's barren it holds only 4, then with tolerant you will have 8 instead of 4 and that's where the bigger bonus is when you compare it to lith which will only get 4

i love artifacts homeworld, but lately i've been going +2 research and dropping the LHW.

I'm trying to get good with this race:

Lith, Telepathic, Repulsive, -GC +1 production, Feudal.

it's a really good race once you capture that first homeworld. ships cost nothing. only problem really is early research, but it's negated by building a CB until it's 2turns to complete then moving all to a nuke cruiser.

also now if I rush I never put EFTanks on my ships. i just grab a quick outpost and commence genocide

[AvA_Majestic]

thats a very good answer Brutalisk, thanks, i didn't realize the population bonus was quite that high, but thinking back on it now, that makes sense.

if only we could fit enough points to have a sub uni tol, that would be somewhat scary :b

thanks guys, good feedback

[Dunnagan]

Small universe,Impossible,Prewarp.

+1 Research, Feudal, Telepathic, Lithiovore, Large HW, Repulsive.

the following savegame attached shows what I mean, while some people here may be able to rush quicker than me from prewarp, I've managed to take out the klackons,humans,sakkra,silicoid, and 2 of mrrshan's expansion attempts right at 128 turns.

anyone here have a sick rush time? like 50 turns from prewarp and you control 5 -6star systems..etc

Dunnagan

[Dunnagan]

.

[vmxa1]

I think I have seen them down to less than 30 turns. I have posted 72 turns in a Large map. I am sure that is only good, not great.

That is total elimination of all 7 races.

[Dunnagan]

Originally posted by vmxa1
I think I have seen them down to less than 30 turns. I have posted 72 turns in a Large map. I am sure that is only good, not great.

That is total elimination of all 7 races.

72 turns Prewarp ? nice, no doubt you were tele, I love that pick also

[logic_error]

Originally posted by Dunnagan I just failed on a rush.
I had telepathic, artifacts world, +2 production. large hw i think also, I may be wrong.

I came out somewhat early, but the rush failed because I chose Alkari first, when I could have grabbed the klacks.

really dumb of me to not assume they already had ECM jammer- they DO have an artifacts hw.. im a tard irl for that.

Imho blitzing is a really dumb way of playing. And btw, I'm one of those players who always play creative and research everything.

[Dunnagan]

Originally posted by logic_error

Imho blitzing is a really dumb way of playing. And btw, I'm one of those players who always play creative and research everything.

how is it in any way dumb? explain.



it is not dumb. if anything, it's cheesy. neither fashion of play is dumb, going into a tech shell is what I did when I was new. until I got a good speedkill one game and saw what you can do when you move around pop points at the right times, like right before a low level tech finishes.

the only reason I do it is because I like to win with less clicks. i prefer killing with speed over a long term win like that, it makes the end more rewarding (and finger less sore)

time for a quick break from moo2, just got Homeworld Cataclysm and HMM4, never played these two, gonna see if they keep me up late like moo2 .

[vmxa1]

While I do not play tele blitz very often it is just another way of playing and breaking up the monotony.

BTW be sure to get the Winds Of War to get the final patch for Homm4.

I am a big Heroes fan, but found IV to be less enjoyable than the previous version, but still worth playing. It has a very weak AI.

I think they will drop the concept of letting the hero fight directly in V.

If you are loooking for other TBS space games, check Stars and Space Empires III or IV.

You may even like Spaceships Unlimited, but it is more of an RTS game.

[Dunnagan]

Originally posted by vmxa1
While I do not play tele blitz very often it is just another way of playing and breaking up the monotony.

BTW be sure to get the Winds Of War to get the final patch for Homm4.

I am a big Heroes fan, but found IV to be less enjoyable than the previous vrsion, but still worth playing. It has a very weak AI.

I think they will drop the concept of letting the hero fight directly in V.

If you are loooking for other TBS space games, check Stars and Space Empires III or IV.

You may even like Spaceships Unlimited, but it is more of an RTS game.

nice, I never even heard of the series until awhile ago. I was browsing avaults reviews, (i dont read reviews anywhere else) and came upon it. I like the gnomish slingshot-guy, that's fun to watch him get a killshot

ill check out those other two titles

[vmxa1]

Halflings?

3DO had a great site before they bellied up. Here is one that has info on Homm games:

http://dynamic3.gamespy.com/~homm/in...ecambounet.htm

[Brutalisk]

There are "four" main tactics in MOO II

- blitz races
- production races
- population races
- tech races

Some races can do all four (such as uni-tol).

Some others are specialist races, so if u pick them you HAVE TO use their strength.

[Dunnagan]

Originally posted by vmxa1
Halflings?

i have an excellent halfling screenshot, its at the bottom of this page

sliptik.freewebsitehosting.com

I host a few screens from the Discord server, it was FFA pvp, and we raided the halfling village of misty thicket, holy **** was that fun

so after we reset a few guys (permadeath server) they made like 30 level 1 halflings, and tried to wall us in , train a guard to where we were, cast a damage shield on one of us, then attack one of us. the damage shield would of course strike the halfling, and the guard, nearby and on the same faction, had the potential to reset one of us (permadeath server)

i quit eq a few months ago; it's just too gripping of a game, that's not the way games are supposed to be

the reward system in eq is identical to that of a skinner box

[Dunnagan]

Originally posted by vmxa1
Halflings?

i have an excellent halfling screenshot, its at the bottom of this page

sliptik.freewebsitehosting.com

I host a few screens from the Discord server, it was FFA pvp, and we raided the halfling village of misty thicket

so after we reset a few guys (permadeath server) they made like 30 level 1 halflings, and tried to wall us in , train a guard to where we were, cast a damage shield on one of us, then attack one of us. the damage shield would of course strike the halfling, and the guard, nearby and on the same faction, had the potential to reset one of us (permadeath server)

i quit eq a few months ago; it's just too gripping of a game, that's not the way games are supposed to be

the reward system in eq is identical to that of a skinner box

[Dunnagan]

sry for triple post, up goes the post counter

[Dunnagan]

Originally posted by vmxa1

3DO had a great site before they bellied up. Here is one that has info on Homm games:

http://dynamic3.gamespy.com/~homm/in...ecambounet.htm

I got Homm2,3, and 4. Played a little of each, and I have to say you were right, 3 is the best.

Not only does it have the epic feel the others lack, (2 felt more epic than 4) the combat screen is better, the main screen is more revealing and displays more information (thinner bars)

of course I haven't had much time to really delve into the game like I want to.