GENERAL: Cafe "Tamerlin" II

[Maquiladora]

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...hreadid=118172

I voted "yes". Vote as you see fit.

[EPW]

I voted "yes" too. However, I gave in and bought C3C, it better be as good as the people in the civ3 forums make it out to be...

[Maquiladora]

EPW, i have civ3 and c3c too, although i didnt buy them.

The AI plays only to make it as hard as possible for the human, so it always feels to me like your playing programming rather than a random thinking opponent. Which makes me turn it off quite quickly sometimes.

Fancy a c3c pbem?

[EPW]

Eventually; I actually havn't gotten it yet, ordered it online yesterday and should get it within a week. Its been a long long time since I've played civ3 so I'll have to relearn over again (not that its too complicated )

[Maquiladora]

No problem. I have a feeling im terrible at civ3 anyway, so you may win one.

[Flinx]

I posted a poll over in the Civ3 General forum. Feel free to vote for the option "Civ3 is crap. I play Call to Power 2: Apolyton Edition!"

[Flinx]

How does CTP2 know what language you are playing? Can you switch languages (other than moving all of the second language files into the directory for the first language)? Could some crazy person with way too much time add a language by translating all of the files into say Portuguese or Dutch?

[Fromafar]

The language is determined by the 4th line in the file ctp2_program\civpaths.txt. So, yes. After changing english to yourlanguage in this file, you may just copy all files in ctp2_data\english (and similar subdirectories under scenarios) to ctp2_data\yourlanguage and start translating.

[Solver]

The name of the active language folder was in one of the configuration text files, userprofile.txt perhaps.

So theoretically, it can be translated to any language as long as all files are in place for it.

[Protra3211]

I voted no.

But I did bring up diplomacy. I feel like many in the civ3 fourms that it needs to fixed. The ai factions soom or later will rise up against you no matter how many gifts you give
.Also I compared ctp2 to civ3 that -I think the bargin table is not always the best-the way its set up in ctp2 is better. Waiting for Peters new diplomod anyone hear from him on this?

[child of Thor]

i havent played Civ3 yet, but its an interesting poll - i'm surprised it wasnt a more one sided result(in favour of Civ3). I dont think its actually a crap game in the way i'd define crap(value for money and longevity being important to me), but i can believe it may have been a dissapointment to many. Hopefully the next Civ game will take some of Civ3 critisims on board - I guess we all still want the ultimate civ game?

[EPW]

Originally posted by Maquiladora
Fancy a c3c pbem?

I can take you up on your offer now Maq

[Maquiladora]

Sent you an email.

[blackgryffin]

hi

i'm new here and i have one question

i see that people around are working on the ctp2 source project and then :

- is it to make a better ctp2 still on windows ? or is it to make a ctp2 for linux ? if so, could it be possible to make too ctp2 for mac os X ( even it's different, it's an unix platform too ! ) i'm ignorant in programming stuff but i'd find really great if someone'd be interested in that project too ...

[Solver]

The short term goals are to fix the single player bugs in CtP2 (good progress) and make multiplayer working (not much progress).

CtP2 has been compiled and ran under Linux, but it's probably some time till a real port for it will be made. A MacOSX port if, of course, possible, but nothing like that has been even attemted yet .

[blackgryffin]

oh ! i see ...

i quite understand how small seems the mac community here and i really imagine it's a hard stuff to check and compile files but if it's possible, is there some people around who'd really be interested in that kind of project, even if that's never been attempted yet ???

[Flinx]

Anyone notice the Hall of Fame/tournaments link they added today.

Cool

[Maquiladora]

Yeah its a pretty useful feature. Why dont you join the tournament then?

[Flinx]

Originally posted by Maquiladora
Yeah its a pretty useful feature. Why dont you join the tournament then?

Ack! I need to hang out in the other forums more

Question:
Is a fix for the scenario problem (that caused us to use mods and not scenatios) included in the playtest builds? It would be nice to have functioning scenarios rather than switching between mods. Did Peter fix it?

[Locutus]

Hey, guys. A little heads-up: maybe a little bit short-notice, but in two weeks time there will be a Poly Meet in Paris, anyone interested in attending? I almost certainly will be there (still have to arrange transportation but I'm sure I'll manage) and Gilg and Tamerlin already expressed an interest, as did LDiCesare (could you both still provide an update if you're reading this?)

Anyone else interested in coming? I always love meeting fellow Apolytoners, especially CtP2ers...

The thread is here: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...hreadid=119742

[Protra3211]

Whats the future for CtP2?

Seems the patch is coming along many problems being fixed .A new Apolyton version of CtP2 would be a great selling point for someone at Activision maybe to take another look at the game. I know the odds are not good. Put a update version using CtP2 as a base with mods would sell-I think many of the Civ3 fans would even run out to buy out.

[kaan]

hi folks

im moving to a new apartment tomorrow and that means that i will be without internet for 5 weeks.

i hope to be able to "borrow" some wireless internet but that is a bit unsure.

until later

klaus

[Maquiladora]

I was looking at

 IMPROVE_FACTORY {
   DefaultIcon ICON_IMPROVE_FACTORY
   Description DESCRIPTION_IMPROVE_FACTORY
   EnableAdvance ADVANCE_INDUSTRIAL_REVOLUTION
   ProductionCost 2025
   Upkeep 8
   ProductionPercent 0.15
   AllowGrunts
}

What does "allowgrunts" do? or what is it supposed to do? I guess its supposed to allow labourers in a city once a factory is built but it doesnt work? or does it do something else and works already?

[drulius]

searching for references to 'AllowGrunts' in the code there are 8 instances, 7 of them in
...\gs\newdb\BuildingRecord .cpp or .h
the other one is in
...\gs\outcom\C3BlgDB.cpp
The interesting entry seems to be line(679) of BuildingRecord.cpp. It is one of many cases in a single switch block.

case k_Token_Building_AllowGrunts

shares the same switchblock with

case k_Token_Building_PreventConversion
case k_Token_Building_NoRushBuyPenalty
case k_Token_Building_FoodVat
case k_Token_Building_IncreaseMaxPopulation

and many other cases

The BuildingRecord code is automatically generated by the ctp_database code, and the reference in C3BlgDB.cpp is in the middle of an #if(0), #endif block

AllowGrunts appears to be the name of a bit flag in the BuildingRecord maintained for each city. Building a factory would turn the flag ON, but there doesn't seem to be any check for the flag's status anywhere else in the code.

The code for CityData::ProcessProduction is in

...\gs\gameobj\CityData.cpp(1402)

This is where building production bonus, feat production bonus, wonder production bonus, etc are accumulated.

if(m_specialistDBIndex[POP_LABORER] >= 0) {
		gross_production += LaborerCount() *
			g_thePopDB->Get(m_specialistDBIndex[POP_LABORER])->GetProduction();
}

appears to be the Laborer contribution, but there is no check for the 'AllowGrunts' flag...

I guess the check here could be moot if the UI does the flag check before it enables the button on the city specialist tab. That way, until the button is enabled, the number of laborer specialists would always be 0 for the above quoted code.

[Maquiladora]

Thanks drulius. So obviously its not "broken", they decided to enable labourers with advances only instead? which is easier for the AI to get along with.

So can we add these options to pop.txt or building.txt or something? so that specialists can (optionally to advances) require buildings in cities?

[Fromafar]

Like drulius said, all the machinery is in place to use this flag, but in the current code it is completely unused.

Based on the name, I would expect it to trigger some kind of unhappiness (complaints because of the monotone work in factories?). Could it be a leftover from CtP1?

[Maquiladora]

Based on the name? It sounds like a flag to turn on labourers in that city to me (grunts being slang for the factory labourers). Do you mean its more likely to be a flag for something other than labour specialists because labour specialists are already taken care of with an enabling advance?

Am i confusing this whole thing?

[drulius]

Originally posted by Fromafar
I would expect it to trigger some kind of unhappiness (complaints because of the monotone work in factories?).

or perhaps it could indicate a type of "modern" slavery, half wage/ same labor... enabled by building one of the newly allowed Gov_Modified buildings instead of a vanilla factory.

[Flinx]

IIRC the 'AllowGrunts' flag was used in CTP1

[Maquiladora]

Flinx is right it appears in improve.txt in CtP1 here

 IMPROVE_FACTORY	{ 	
IMPROVEMENT_PRODUCTION_COST	2025	
IMPROVEMENT_UPKEEP	20	
IMPROVE_DEFAULT_ICON	ICON_IMPROVE_FACTORY	
IMPROVE_DESCRIPTION	DESCRIPTION_IMPROVE_FACTORY	
ENABLING_ADVANCE 	ADVANCE_INDUSTRIAL_REVOLUTION	
OBSOLETE_ADVANCE 	NULL	
### FLAGS HERE		
IMPROVEMENT_FLAG_PRODUCTION_PERCENT	PRODUCTION_TYPE_PRODUCTION	50
IMPROVEMENT_FLAG_POLLUTION_BONUS	1	
IMPROVEMENT_FLAG_ALLOW_GRUNTS		
}

and of course in CtP1 and 2 the specialist is

 POP_FACTORY_GRUNT				"Laborer"