about mongol

[forwax]

I've been playing civ3 for some time and reading for as long. I have a question. I know all the strategies, all the loop hole etc. but anyone feel that the mongol civilization is now what is should be ? Think of it, they had the grandest empire of all humankind, the best archer and warrior, and the fastest warrior unit and yet, the only thing in civilization 3 they can do is being able to traverse mountain as they were grass land.

come on, I think they eserve better. I am not a mongol (I am as a matter of a fact a french canadian) but hell, they had the biggest earthly empire any humain could aspire to (even the britain).

Francis

[Last Conformist]

Your complaint is that the Mongols are not overpowered? Or just that the Keshik isn't that exciting as UUs go?

[Goethe80]

I'd have to agree that the mongolian UU is quite boring, in my opinion, their UU comes too late, because by then, their expansionist trait is totally useless, and the UU advantage is not particularly useful in capturing hundreds of cities. That said, the movement ability does help in terrorizing workers, longbowmen, med. infantry, etc etc

[forwax]

my complaint is about the Keshik being a boring UU. They should treat all terrain as grassland and be at 5.2.2 at less. Just my humble opinion.

[Last Conformist]

An attack of five might be a little much.

I've personally always felt that the Keshik should be what the Ansar Warrior is.

[Aqualung71]

I guess they're a little map dependent, and so can be good on maps with lots of rough terrain.

I used to think the Spanish Conquistador was a terrible UU too....3/2/2 at Astronomy is already out of date. That is, until I experienced an AI Conq. calmly trot over forests and mountains 6 tiles into the core of my territory and capture an unguarded city!

[Zero]

but expansionistic suffers in mountainous terrain.


they get jipped either way

[forwax]

one thing good thougt, they don't need iron and cost only 60 shield. So one time I've built about 150-200 unit, waited until cavalry, upgraded them and purge the planet of the non-pure race on it

But still, they should be like the Ansar warrior like Last Conformist said.

[UnOrthOdOx]

It is the cheap cost that makes the unit.

I disagree profoundly that the unit is any less exciting than any other knight level unit. GREAT timing for a UU. Yes, your expansionist trait is done by then, what better time to trigger a GA?

With the CHEAPER knight, you also can easily build more numbers of them than your standard opponent. The mountain movement is a little map dependant, and I would like hills added to that ability, but other than that the Mongols are one of my preferred civs at the end of the day.

Then...I'm not called UnOrthOdOx for following convention...

[Last Conformist]

You honestly hold the Keshik to be on par with the Ansar Warrior? It does require Iron and is slower on mountains, but equal speed on hills, jungles and volcanoes, and faster on any other terrain. I'd chose the Ansar any day of the week.

Then you've got the Rider, which costs a mere 17% more, has the same movement advantages as the Ansar, and has a 50% better defense. Again, I know what I prefer.

[Zero]

resource dependence is a much larger weakness in c3c.

keshik is balanced. it could be better, it could be tweaked, but its reasonable as it is.

buying upgrading unit is much more costly in c3c.

[Last Conformist]

I'm not saying the Keshik is bad, merely that it does not compare with the Rider or Ansar (which, IMHO, with the Sipahi make up the three best UUs in the game).

[Cerbykins]

Not if the Persians go KAI on them first
Sorry, but a top-list of UU's without Persians isn't a top list

[Jon Shafer]

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
It is the cheap cost that makes the unit.

I disagree profoundly that the unit is any less exciting than any other knight level unit. GREAT timing for a UU. Yes, your expansionist trait is done by then, what better time to trigger a GA?

With the CHEAPER knight, you also can easily build more numbers of them than your standard opponent. The mountain movement is a little map dependant, and I would like hills added to that ability, but other than that the Mongols are one of my preferred civs at the end of the day.

Then...I'm not called UnOrthOdOx for following convention...

Meh...

6 Riders or 7 Keshiks?

I know what I'd choose... in a heartbeat.

[Goethe80]

Originally posted by Last Conformist
I'm not saying the Keshik is bad, merely that it does not compare with the Rider or Ansar (which, IMHO, with the Sipahi make up the three best UUs in the game).

Heh, lists of top UUs!

*smells heated debate*

But seriously, how can you leave out the berzerks?


Fond memories of my fur-clad (and probably rather smelly) vikings charging down at the prissy french musketeers....