30% Iron Civer Tournament

[Rommel2D]

This is the Organizational thread for the Iron Civer PBEM Tournament. Early discussion on the format can be found in the March Madness! thread.

Yomigaeru Aiyan Shivilan
Yo-mi-guy-ru-eye-yon-shiv-u-ya!

Confirmed Entrants
smellymummy
Conqueror
Aqualung71
Moonbars
Andydog
ricketyclik
Flandrien
Soltz
Paddy the Scot
alexman
Masuro
MickeyJ
McMeadows
sabrewolf
Trip
Bongo
jshelr

Replacement Pool
MFCamillus (D)
Beta (D)
playshogi (D)
Krill (B or C)
conmcb25(D)
Arnelos (D)
snoopy369 (D)


The Tournament is nearing completion. The final will soon be underway and a new tournament will follow. Stay tuned for further updates...

The main thing to keep in mind: This is a long term proposal. Everybody should be available on a daily basis for at least the next year with only limited periods of expected absence.

The games have begun and are scheduled thusly:
Players in Purple text have been purple carded for delinquent play! "*" Designates a yellow card.

Game A
ricketyclik %eliminated%
Paddy the Scot %eliminated%
Aqualung71 Victor
Masuro %eliminated%

Game B
McMeadows %eliminated%
jshelr %eliminated%
Flandrien %eliminated%
Bongo Victor

Game C
Andydog
Mickeyj %eliminated%
Moonbars
sabrewolf %eliminated%

Game D
alexman Victor
smellymummy %eliminated%
Soltz (richthur) %eliminated%
Trip %eliminated%

Standby Game AA
MFCamillus %eliminated%
conmcb25
Arnelos
Snoopy369


Wrabbit Wrangler:
Rommel2D (jwala at fastmail dot fm)

Groupings have been made geographic in hope of promoting 'quick play' periods where mutiple turns may be played in one day. I've done my best to arrange an east to west flow modified by the schedule information I've been given...

[Rommel2D]

Finalized rules (seventh draft):

1) 16 players, two rounds, all four player games
2) Tiny pangea with 70% water, random civs (first round only)
3) Players in final round choose tribes in order of first round completion
4) Players organized by geography for fast play (modified by individual schedule variations)
5) Turn order in east-west progression with exceptions only for players who give specific availability variances
6) Games started by referee, first turn skipped
7) Each player has the option, once per game, to call for a restart before the completion of their first turn
8) Replacements are allowed while game is still BC
9) Replacements will eventually be assigned according to speed and/or number of victories in ICR games, but until the first replacement round reaches completion, they will be chosen as best meets the situation
10) 24 hour 'play clock', actively enforced
11) All players expected to make simple 'sent' post in tracking thread each turn, preferably listing year played, except when technical problems interfere.
12) All turns to be played with version 1.22 until it is superceded by another stable upgrade which all players agree to adopt
13) There is to be no...
rule 13.


To clarify the issue of rules and exploits/ettiquette:
Everything listed under Tournament Rules is here to keep the whole tournament together and running smoothly. These will receive active attention from the moderator.

Everything in the Etiquette and Exploit List is there for the convenience of the players. It is meant to be a starting point for them to refer to when deciding on 'house rules' for each game, and these items are not being actively enforced by a moderator. However, if a dispute arises that is not settled by the individuals in the game, the moderator's resolution will be based on the list and agreements stated in the game's tracking thread.

[Rommel2D]

[ Recently revised content in orange text ]


Regular and bold words give the basic exploit information and rules to prevent them. Red, underlined words are the specific exploits covered. Royalblue, italicized words are etiquette points mostly, meant to add to the game if agreed to, but not necessary to avoid the most damaging exploits.



Preamble
It is understood that everyone participating is doing so to enhance their enjoyment of the game and share this enjoyment with others. These rules are not designed to prohibit someone who does not play with the spirit of sportsmanship from gaining undue advantage, only the vigilance of the community can hope to accomplish this. The aim of these rules are to present a common ground from which a fair challnge is presented to all, subject to the intended random elements of the game.

Reloading
Reloading of the turn in an effort to gain better RNG results or reposition units according to newly aquired information is the most heinous abuse of the PBEM system. However, reloading a turn to correct manual errors is Ok, as long as no unexplored or fog-of-war tiles are revealed and no combat has taken place. Any instance of reloading should be reported in the tracker thread.


Definitions
'game turn'= sequence begun when first player in order starts turn and ended when last player clicks 'save & exit'

'production phase'= part of the individual's turn immediately after loading, lasting until player is free to select and move units. In the "it's not a bug, it's a feature" department, any time the map is blacked out, it is still the production phase. :-)

'Trade' = applies to tradeable resources only

1 Intertribal cooperation

1-1 Players shall not conspire to use irregularities of the game engine's turn sequence to gain extra use from units or resources. They shall not declare frivilous wars. Deals shall not be canceled on the same game turn as they are made unless due to a legitimate war. Resources intentionally removed from a trade network cannot be reconnected to that network on the same game turn. Players shall not make deals that include money they will not pay for.

1-1.1 Getting double-duty out of artillery and Workers
1-1.2 Sharing a Luxury or Strategic resource
1-1.3 Generating Leaders and Golden Ages by sacrificing cheap units
1-1.4 Declaring war for happiness
1-1.5 Inflation bug
2-0.2 Accepting a Peace Treaty from a civ then immediately declaring war


1-2 Players shall not exchange in-game information until they are represented on each other's foreign advisor's screen. They shall not exchange graphic map information before both have knowledge of Navigation.
a) In diplomacy without an embassy between the Tribes, a player may only offer technology already known by their Tribe. They may not offer or ask for unknown techs.
b) Players shall not coordinate military action unless an alliance is formally declared in the foreign advisor's screen.
c) Players shall not make reference to specific distances or directions until both have knowledge of Map Making.
d) Players shall not make Mutual Protection Pacts or Trade Embargoes unless they are declared in the foreign advisor's screen.

1-2.1 Exchanging map/minimap information before Navigation.


2. Intertribal conflicts

2-1 Players shall not rename units or cities to disguise the content of unit stacks or diplomatic offers.


2-2 Cities may be offered diplomatically only as part of a peace treaty.

2-2.1 Teleporting units by abandoning or gifting cities


3. The individual turn

3-1 Players may only use drop-down menus to make changes during the 'production phase'. They should not zoom to cities or advisor screens from the pop-up boxes.

3-1.1 Using F1 to change production during the 'production phase'
3-1.2 Using city screen's arrow keys to change production during the 'production phase'


3-2 Last player in turn sequence shall not use the GoTo command's double movement to gain strategic advantage over an opponent.

3-2.1 Using GoTo to get extra movement


4. Options

4-1 Naval chains are allowed unless players agree otherwise in advance.

4-1.1 Chaining naval transports to quickly move land units across water

4-2 There are 4 basic levels of combat reporting;

Level 0> Absent
No reporting whatsoever, unless the attacker feels like gloating.

Level 1> Passive
(The default level to be used unless there is a consensus to use one of the other levels.)
A summary of combat results is required to be sent to the defender if, and only if, they make a relevant inquiry soon afterward.
['soon' should allow for a few turns to realize a unit is missing, but could only be one turn cycle for simplicity if the attacker insists.]

Level 2> Active
A player making any attack must indicate to the defender that it has taken place and provide a brief summary of units involved, along with damage taken.

Level 2.5>
Same as level 2, except any unit moving into and out of another player's fog of war on the same turn must be reported.

Level 3> Intensive
A player making any attack must indicate to the defender that it has taken palce and provide a detailed account of each unit's location and resulting damage status.

Level 3.5>
Same as level 3, except any unit moving into and out of another player's fog of war on the same turn must be reported.

All information need only pass between the affected parties. Post it in the turn thread only if you wish to broadcast results to the world (or are too lazy to make a seperate email )

[Rommel2D]

...From first to last
The peak is never passed
Something always fires the light
That gets in your eyes
One moment's high
And the glory rolls on by
Like a streak of lightening
That flashes and fades
In the summer sky...



Progress Report, as of July 18, 12 weeks into it:

Coliseum A was at 310BC.
Scores at 750BC:
314 Paddy the Scot
219 ricketyclik
169 Aqualung
161 Masuro

Coliseum B was at 1725BC.

Coliseum C was at 70BC.
Scores at 750BC:
235 Moonbars
176 Andydog
160 Mickeyj
159 Sabrewolf [since eliminated]

Coliseum D was at 670BC.
Scores at 750BC:
254 alexman
247 smellymummy
162 Soltz
Trip [eliminated]

[Soltz]

Sorry, between the Easter weekend and a business trip last week, I didn't get around to checking my PM's.

Password sent.

[Rommel2D]

MFCamillus and McMeadows requested the last spot, but Soltz responded within 24 hours of their PMs, so I'm going with him.

All passwords received, thank you.

Tracking threads will be made up and games launched later in the week. I'm particularly busy with RL on Mondays and Tuesdays.

[Beta]

Um - interested.

[Krill]

I can be a replacement for GMT games.

[Paddy]

so when do we start

[Conqueror]

Originally posted by Rommel2D

I could still use passwords from the following (in order to save me the trouble of making up rude embarrassing ones for them myself ;-) :
MickeyJ
LzPrst

Something like 'ReadYourPMs' and 'SendPMInTime' would be good passwords for them, dont you think

[Rommel2D]

Haven't sent PMs yet- they still have a few days as I don't plan to launch the games until the end of the week. It would be nice if they read this thread though, since it has been so graciously topped.

[alexman]

The replacement pool has enough players to form a new group. Some of them are frequent and reliable PBEM players.

Would it be any fun to form a new group, and have five players in the final?

[Rommel2D]

The experimental Quatrain Tournament Engine (TM) is scheduled to have its prototype assembled early Saturday GMT. Unfortunately, the engineering team will be sleeping one off for the next few days, and are unavailable to make modifications.

I'd really like to keep the tournament structure as simple and uniform as possible for this one, and focus on what happens within that structure. Like I've said elsewhere, I hope someone else takes the initiative to run another tournament and experiment with different set-ups like that. (We can sort of compare this to the first Tournament to see how well the five-player final works.)

[jshelr]

Originally posted by alexman
The replacement pool has enough players to form a new group. Some of them are frequent and reliable PBEM players.

Would it be any fun to form a new group, and have five players in the final?

I'm sure we would have loved to see that happen Alexman!

[richthur]

All sounds great guys! I'v never tried the PBEM, done alot of CivII Gold MP. THIS seems the way to go for a REAL long term player.
Bummer to hear of all the cheats that are possible, but that's true in ANY human competition. Some a__holes have to push his/their ego ahead of everyone else's fairness & fun. But "luck" has a way of balancing them out. As long as, as U have so well done, THE rules are known to all.

As for this touney... i'm a single, self-employed, work from home, keep-strange-hours-anyway, kinda guy. So, having been in long term MP's with players all around the world, i CAN & WILL stick with it... even if i'm getting whooped (as i would no doubt in this crowd). It'd be a great learning experince for moi'. I AM a fast learner.

But if U need another altern or, as has been just suggested, another grouping is formed... count me available & interested.

As a PBEM newbie, any one know where i can get into a / some games? Any takers here? Or "mentors".

---------------------------------------
An Aside: where / how do U get your personal "icon" & flags created/added?

[Beta]

Originally posted by alexman
The replacement pool has enough players to form a new group. Some of them are frequent and reliable PBEM players.

Would it be any fun to form a new group, and have five players in the final?

[Beta]

Originally posted by Rommel2D

1-3 Players shall not exchange in-game information until they are represented on each other's diplomacy screen.
a)They shall not make cooperative research, development, or combat plans until an embassy is established between them and an alliance formally declared.
b)They shall not make Mutual Protection Pacts or Trade Embargoes unless an embassy is in place and they have knowledge of Nationalism.

Is this exclusion based on contact, or the building of an embassy. In many games, research and military co-operation has occured after teams have met, but before embassies have been built. That being said, I think I agree with your proposal (ie you have to build the embassy to engage in such negotiations.)

3-1 Players shall dismiss all pop-ups at the beginning of their turn until the production phase is complete.

3-1.1 Hitting F1 to change production
3-1.2 Using city screen's arrow keys to change production

These I was not aware of. Can you explain, please?

And thanks Rommel - I may grab these for use in the topped info thread. I presume that is OK by you.

[richthur]

Beta; I can shed some light in the way of explaination. U can do this/these in any game.
When the game engine gets around to updating your civ, U simply hit `F1' at the first chance. That, as U know, gets into your civ's overall city mgt display.
From there, U clik on a city's name & it takes U to that city's individual mgt window. Make your changes to that city's orders. THEN, instead of closing the city's window, use the arrows at the top of that screen to scroll to any other of your cities' & change things before releasing control back to the game engine to update these remaining cities. Cities which NOW may have altered instructions based on the changes JUST done... instead of what U ordered LAST move before sending off file.

That help?

[McMeadows]

Originally posted by Beta


Is this exclusion based on contact, or the building of an embassy. In many games, research and military co-operation has occured after teams have met, but before embassies have been built. That being said, I think I agree with your proposal (ie you have to build the embassy to engage in such negotiations.)

I enjoy to conduct a certain code of honour in games, but I think we should not make it too difficult and just go with what the game has to offer at some points. As soon contact is established I would say it is ok to negotiate for "tech trade pacts" or "mutual protection pacts". Allready in ancient times pacts were made, and only later people thought of building embassies in one anothers country. It's PBEM, with all human players, equal chances for anyone, less chance for "cheating" if it isn't cheating and, isn't it the juice in the PBEM game to negotiate with real people?

McM

[Rommel2D]

Originally posted by Beta
Is this exclusion based on contact, or the building of an embassy. In many games, research and military co-operation has occured after teams have met, but before embassies have been built. That being said, I think I agree with your proposal (ie you have to build the embassy to engage in such negotiations.)

Rule 1-3 is based on contact only. No communication until contact is pretty standard in games I've seen, so it is the main rule.

1-3 a) and b) are not usually observed. They add some depth to the game since there is little use for embassies otherwise. However, these (along with the other lettered clauses) can be dropped from a game without introducing unbalancing exploits like the other rules are meant to cover.

More important than what rules to play by is that eveyone play by the same rules. I'm suggesting all players in each game explicitly decide whether to use the lettered clauses (in blue text) before starting. I think we need to make everyone more aware of them, since they have been rarely used before.

These I was not aware of. Can you explain, please?

And thanks Rommel - I may grab these for use in the topped info thread. I presume that is OK by you.

The detailed discussion on these exploits is over in the March Madness! thread. Basically, anything at the beginning of the turn that gives you a pop-up (new tech, production, rioting) allows you to either zoom to the city screen and use the arrows, or hit F1 and use the advisor screen to go directly to any city. You can then allocate entertainers to stop rioting before it happens, or reallocate workers to gain extra commerce.

Clicking on the default ok for each pop-up eliminates the chance of the player using this exploit while thinking they are doing legitimate city maintainence. Like the pre-1.20 load bug, this is something newer players will occasionally stumble onto without even realizing it is happening. I speak from personal experience here.

Grab away!

[Rommel2D]

Originally posted by McMeadows
As soon contact is established I would say it is ok to negotiate for "tech trade pacts" or "mutual protection pacts". Allready in ancient times pacts were made, and only later people thought of building embassies in one anothers country. It's PBEM, with all human players, equal chances for anyone, less chance for "cheating" if it isn't cheating and, isn't it the juice in the PBEM game to negotiate with real people?

I don't think embassies have to be seen solely as buildings with permanent staff. In the ancient era, it could represent a single important emissary who makes occasional visits to another chief and stays in their guest room. It simply represents a slight investment to facilitate higher-level communications between tribes. IMO, Following the spirit of Civ's tech development with diplomacy would keep human interaction a bit more interesting and respectable than the realityTV-style alliances that seem to develop...

I'm not sure if we're talking about the same thing with "tech trade pacts", but the 1-3 a) clause is meant to prevent the "I'll research this tech tree branch, you take that one" sort of deals, not simple trading of technologies already discovered. These deals [edit: coordination of research] would be fine with an embassy, however.

[Conqueror]

3-1.1 Hitting F1 to change production
3-1.2 Using city screen's arrow keys to change production

You could add 'during production phase' in the end of these sentences to clarify them.

(I admit, i used these myself not so many months ago, before i saw the MZO rules and realized these were counted as exploit in general. Havent done that since. But never intended knowingly cheat by using these, mostly changed prebuilds to something that new tech allowed, as i was used to do in GotM.)

[Conqueror]

Rule 1-3 is based on contact only. No communication until contact is pretty standard in games I've seen, so it is the main rule.

This is important rule.

Example : I played a 4 player game in 'other' forum about year ago, and the game was pretty much over for me and 'mr. c', when it started, because 'mr. a' and 'mr. b' had agreed all research paths / development / military cooperation even before the 1st turn.
This pretty much ruined the game, and me & 'mr. c' were not that happy about it.

[Arnelos]

Well, shoot, I missed this. Put me down as a replacement if anyone drops (please PM me! I may or may not be paying very close attention to this thread if I'm not actually IN the tournament ).

[Beta]

Arnelos - I know - I missed it as well until recently. Hopefully another game or two will start up for us extras.

To all above, especially richtur. Thanks! I understand it now. Never knew about that possibility, but as I have always clicked the OK button, I guess I never stumbled across it.

As to contact and embassies. I have always been pretty adamant about the no communication before contact rule. It only makes sense. Conqueror gives an example of the main reason for this. It is the embassy rule that is new to me, and I agree with Rommel, it would be good to find some reason to make them useful in MP.

Thanks aagain - and I will check March Madness. btw - it is now April.

(and they start with 64 teams )

[jshelr]

Replacement Players:

If you email me your addresses I'll start up a game or two to bring everybody into play.

[Rommel2D]

If anyone has special last minute considerations (customized names, titles, etc.), now's the time to speak up. Unless I hear otherwise, I'll use your 'poly nicknames as your leader's.

[Rommel2D]

Replacement players,

I'm sorry everybody couldn't get directly into the tournament. I started the discussion thread over a month ago (hence the 'March' in the title ) and advertised it in this forum and in my .sig. The 4 -> 4 framework was planned for months before that, as part of the original idea for this tournament.

Alexman made another suggestion that I would like to work into the tournament. Instead of rule 9) Replacements for final game will be highest scoring runner-up from first game to finish in first round, how about if the late arrivals played games to determine the primary replacement? They would be with similar rules, except play clock enforcement by me would be passive rather than active, as I'm not sure if I'll have enough time to keep up with more than four games...

[Rommel2D]

The turn tracking threads are out there, the first turns will follow within 24 hours...

[jshelr]

I will have the first replacement game going this morning, btw. (I hope this is regarded as helping rather than interfering.) It looks to me like this group of players might be the nucleus for a decent club!