USA and France to reconcile?

[Shi Huangdi]

While watching the news today I saw encouraging news regarding world leaders reactions, particularly regarding France. Chirac said he was most pleased at Saddam's captured, and the French Foreign Minister now said that France would be willing to play its part in the international "ensemble" rebuilding Iraq.

James Baker is about to head to France for negoitations with Chirac. The main thing the USA is trying to negotiate would be cancellation of the Iraq debt, France's main goal would be to get on the bidding list for reconstructing Iraq. But perhaps now a larger for France would be more politcally papable now that this major victory has been scored on the coalition side?

Do any of our French posters have any ideas on what France might be willing to do? Forgive the Iraq debt? Make a formal statement putting them in the coalition of the willing? Help finance the reconstruction? Send in the French Foreign Legion?

[Nubclear]

France has no balls. I certainly hope Russia does.

[Dis]

now they want to get in?

[Spiffor]

We're having very big financial trouble, and it's unlikely we'll make any commitment that would cost us significant money. Besides, we're trying to keep our "party discipline" with the Germans and the Russians, and thus I don't think we'd do anything too drastic in direction of the US.

OTOH, the Executive Life fraud (an old fraud from the French business against Californians) will cost millions to the taxpayer, and we're finally looking for an agreement with the American justice. So we will want to show a reconciliation.

The most plausible thing that'll happen, IMHO, will be some friendly symbol, that would look good on TV without costing a dime.

OTOH, if the US agrees to give us some reconstruction contracts, and oil-exploitation contracts, it is very possible we send troops there. But that's my old theory of "give us some loot and we'll come".
The price had risen when the death toll of US soldiers became high. It has probably lowered now that we can hope for a demoralization of the Iraqi guerilla.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar
France has no balls. I certainly hope Russia does.

Once again, we surrender

[GhengisFarb™]

Chirac and France were all against the Iraqi rebuild as long as their boy that they backed (Saddam) was still in competition. Now that their side got captured and is most likely permanently out of power they want to try to join the other side.

[Dis]

I'm not sure I buy that. Surely France didn't believe Saddam had any hope of regaining power did they?

[GhengisFarb™]

Originally posted by Dissident
I'm not sure I buy that. Surely France didn't believe Saddam had any hope of regaining power did they?

All right, this go back over this. We're talking about FRANCE................

[Spiffor]

Dissident:
I don't think so. It is possible our diplomats believed that the US would weasel out and leave an unfinished job in face of the opposition, but I can't imagine they believed Saddam could come back. Especially old and heirless as he is.

[GhengisFarb™]

If America and the Coalition had backed down its entirely conceivable he could have come back. He has the bulk of his military still buried in the sand and the bulk of his money stashed who knows where.

The Iraqis believed it.

[Spiffor]

If the Americans backed off, the seeds of civil war would be already planted. Saddam would never have managed to unite a weaponed and hostile country (Shiites and Kurds) under his rule again. Besides, don't forget much hardware and many soldiers have been wiped out during the war, and the Kurds can be emboldened by their victories in the north.

[Shi Huangdi]

[SIZE=1]

OTOH, if the US agrees to give us some reconstruction contracts, and oil-exploitation contracts, it is very possible we send troops there. But that's my old theory of "give us some loot and we'll come".
The price had risen when the death toll of US soldiers became high. It has probably lowered now that we can hope for a demoralization of the Iraqi guerilla.

That would be excellent for the international status of both nations if that could be arranged, and we could forget the past debate and work together to fix the Iraq situation. The French Foreign Legion are some of the best troops in the world and could definitely play a huge role in crushing these guerillas.

[Sava]

I think its just a little bit hypocritical for a lot of these supposed "free market" conservatives saying France and Germany shouldn't be involved in reconstruction. Is some silly grudge more important than possibly wasting tax payer dollars with Halliburton? I guess it's obvious where the administration's loyalties are. The "free market" ideology takes a backseat to political kickbacks and no-bid contracts.

I also think it's hypocritical to ask France to cancel the Iraq debt when the US refuses to cancel debt from other third world countries. I think France should cancel the debt, but I won't blame them if they don't. And the US certainly has no right to ***** and moan considering it won't cancel it's third world debt.

After the capture of Saddam, Bush has a chance to put petty grudges aside and make a move to gain more international support. If he blows it, it will be just another failure on Bush's part.

So basically, I agree with Shi.

[Spiffor]

BTW, I forgot to mention that the Six coming months are campaign time in France. We'll have 3 elections until June, and every politician is on the lookout to get an opportunity for votes.

Any major action taken by France in the coming months should take this fact into account. These are the first elections since the arrival of the right to power in 2002, and the government is increasingly unpopular here. Chirac may try some stunt about Iraq to raise the right's popularity. After all, Chirac has never been so popular as when he opposed war back in February.

[Bereta_Eder]

Maybe it will be like Germany where Shroeder won the elections, despite economic problems, by promising no action in Iraq.

[Whoha]

Guys, why shouldn't Saddam have come back to power, we cut and ran after a single bombing in Lebanon, we cut and ran in somalia? Why would france have not made the bet that we would once again cut and run?

[MrFun]

I'm surprised other Americans have not demolished the Statue of Liberty yet.

[Dr Strangelove]

The ones most likely to do that are the very ones least likely to know who built it.

[Lefty Scaevola]

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
Do any of our French posters have any ideas on what France might be willing to do? Forgive the Iraq debt?

That depends on how much evidence the USA finds in Iraq about how the debt was acrued.

[Sava]

yeah Lefty... maybe they will find out the French gave Saddam WMD components...

I can just see Donald Rumsfeld now... "Those evil old Europe bastards gave Saddam WMD's!!!" despite the fact he was the Reagan administration envoy who met with Saddam to iron out agreements for US corporations to sell WMD components to Saddam.

I hope that Bush attacks France for that... one more thing to call HYPOCRISY on...

[Shi Huangdi]

Sig Updated.

[Space05us]

The ones most likely to do that are the very ones least likely to know who built it.

no kidding.

[Kuciwalker]

I hope that with Saddam captured we'll find out more about any deals between France and Saddam's regime...

... come on, you know there had to be something going on, else why would they be so adamant about protecting him?

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
Sig Updated.

I'd use it too, but I already have one Sava-quote in it

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by skywalker
... come on, you know there had to be something going on, else why would they be so adamant about protecting him?

Of course we dealt with him. We're the world's third weapon exporter after the US and Russia. It's obvious we have clients scattered around the world, and it's obvious we don't only have the nice kids on the block in our shop.

And you know what more incredible? You too!
Your country too had deals with the Saddam regime, if only because you cannot exactly act as if a 30 million inhab country didn't exist for 12 years, especially when it sits on a sea of oil.

To "discover" the deals between France and Saddam's Iraq will be about as interesting as to "discover" that Rumsie went all smiles to Saddam some 15 years ago. It feels dirty, but the whole international diplomacy is dirty.

One of the many reasons France rejected war so adamantly was that the Saddam regime had a huge debt towards us, and we feared his toppling would cancel the debt. In all their postwar handlings with France on the issue, the US and the Iraqi council raised the debt issue, threatening or announcing to cancel it.
There's a very simple reason why this debt is important (even for France, who cancelled many debts in the past). That's because the debt is huge. Before GulfWar1, we sold throngs of missiles and chemicals to Saddam, and even a nuclear reactor! Of course we want the money.

Is it dirty? Definitely, that's clearly nothing to be proud of. But then again, past the moralizing PR, nobody can be proud of anything in Iternational Relations.

[Kuciwalker]

I think it would be awesome if we cancelled the debt. The irony is wonderful.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Before GulfWar1, we sold ... a nuclear reactor! Of course we want the money.

Take it up with the Israelis.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by skywalker
I think it would be awesome if we cancelled the debt. The irony is wonderful.

Will you, or did you, cancel the one they had to you?

[Alexander's Horse]

The French say "kiss my butt" and everyone takes that as a sign of reconciliation?

[Shi Huangdi]

Well we know France used to sell weapons to Iraq. Before '91, that's no big deal. The key will be discovering if France continued to arm or support in anyway Saddam after Gulf War I.