that's why Calig is awesome...
Yes, yes I do.
...people like to cry a lot... - Pekka
...we just argue without evidence, secure in our own superiority. - Snotty
that's why Calig is awesome...
...people like to cry a lot... - Pekka
...we just argue without evidence, secure in our own superiority. - Snotty
Wrong Sava
About The refurbished Titan 4 satellite carrier:
"So you don't think our kids say to themselves, 'Gee, you know, Dad goes off to the factory every day and, you know, he builds missiles. These are weapons of mass destruction.' What's the difference between that mass destruction and the mass destruction over at Columbine High School?'"
About the Plaque:
"The plaque underneath it proudly proclaims that this plane killed Vietnamese people on Christmas Eve 1972."
What the plaque really says:
"B-52D Stratofortress. 'Diamond Lil.' Dedicated to the men and women of the Strategic Air Command who flew and maintained the B-52D throughout its 26-year history in the command. Aircraft 55-083, with over 15,000 flying hours, is one of two B-52Ds credited with a confirmed MIG kill during the Vietnam Conflict Flying out of U-Tapao Royal Thai Naval Airfield in southern Thailand, the crew of 'Diamond Lil' shot down a MIG northeast of Hanoi during 'Linebacker II' action on Christmas Eve, 1972."
Notice that even shooting down a mig doesn't mean that the pilot died.
About the Iraq Invasion:
"1990 - Iraq invades Kuwait with weapons from the US"
I'd find out where he heard this one, the GAO, FAS and SIPRI groups all seem to disagree with this assessment:
http://projects.sipri.se/armstrade/T...Imps_73-02.pdf
http://projects.sipri.se/armstrade/IRQ_IMPRTS_73-02.pdf
GAO report in HTML:
http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/gao/nsi94098.htm
GAO report in PDF form from the GAO website:
or just do a search on NSIAD-94-98 from gao.gov
http://161.203.16.4/t2pbat4/150766.pdf
This film has been very thoroughly taken apart.
http://bowlingfortruth.com/
What else can I get you to admit to? . . .
Where were you on Nov, 22, 1963?
Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...
Twinkling in my father's eye.Originally posted by chegitz guevara
What else can I get you to admit to? . . .
Where were you on Nov, 22, 1963?
...people like to cry a lot... - Pekka
...we just argue without evidence, secure in our own superiority. - Snotty
Whoha: actually Moore acknowledges the stuff about Lockheed as well... click on the link...
http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/wackoattacko/
oh burn... and I feel bad, you tried so hard.Here's another whopper I've had to listen to from the pro-gun groups:
"The Lockheed factory in Littleton, Colorado, has nothing to do with weapons of mass destruction!"
That's right! That big honkin' rocket sitting behind the Lockheed spokesman in "Bowling for Columbine"-- the one with "US AIRFORCE" written on it in BIG ASS letters – well, I admit it, I snuck in and painted that on that Titan IV rocket when Lockheed wasn't looking! After all, those rockets were only being used for the Weather Channel! Ha Ha Ha! I sure fooled everyone!!
Or....
The Truth: Lockheed Martin is the largest weapons-maker in the world. The Littleton facility has been manufacturing missiles, missile components, and other weapons systems for almost half a century. In the 50s, workers at the Littleton facility constructed the first Titan intercontinental ballistic missile, designed to unleash a nuclear warhead on the Soviet Union; in the mid-80s, they were partially assembling MX missiles, instruments for the minuteman ICBM, a space laser weapon called Zenith Star, and a Star Wars program known as Brilliant Pebbles.
In the full, unedited interview I did with the Lockheed spokesman, he told me that Lockheed started building nuclear missiles in Littleton and "played a role in the development of Peacekeeper MX Missiles."
As for what's currently manufactured in Littleton, McCollum told me, "They (the rockets sitting behind him) carry mainly very large national security satellites, some we can't talk about." (see him say it here)
Since that interview, the Titan IV rockets manufactured in Littleton have been critical to the war effort in both Afghanistan and Iraq. These rockets launched advanced satellites that were "instrumental in providing command-and-control operations over Iraq...for the rapid targeting of Navy Tomahawk cruise missiles involved in Iraqi strikes and clandestine communications with Special Operations Forces." (view source here).
That Lockheed lets the occasional weather or TV satellite hitch a ride on one of its rockets should not distract anyone from Lockheed's main mission and moneymaker in Littleton: to make instruments that help kill people. That two of Littleton's children decided to engineer their own mass killing is what these guys and the Internet crazies don't want to discuss.
I don't know about the plaque, but he doesn't mention that. But if all you have is he mistated what some plaque says, well@ you
I read his response, he also acknowledges to slandering Willie Horton.
And I just cited 3 examples out of the film, there are a whole lot more, if you read through the site I posted.
So what, exactly, was this bomber doing over N. Vietnam during the Christmas bombings of not dropping bombs? And bombs do kill people, do they not? More than two million people, as a matter of fact, died during the Vietnam War, mostly because of these bombers.Originally posted by Whoha
Wrong Sava
About the Plaque:
"The plaque underneath it proudly proclaims that this plane killed Vietnamese people on Christmas Eve 1972."
What the plaque really says:
"B-52D Stratofortress. 'Diamond Lil.' Dedicated to the men and women of the Strategic Air Command who flew and maintained the B-52D throughout its 26-year history in the command. Aircraft 55-083, with over 15,000 flying hours, is one of two B-52Ds credited with a confirmed MIG kill during the Vietnam Conflict Flying out of U-Tapao Royal Thai Naval Airfield in southern Thailand, the crew of 'Diamond Lil' shot down a MIG northeast of Hanoi during 'Linebacker II' action on Christmas Eve, 1972."
Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...
It was shooting down a mig apparently. The claim he makes about the plaque is that it is extolling the virtue of bombing women and children on Christmas eve.
oh and about Saddam's intimate weapons involvement with the US:
http://www.casi.org.uk/info/usdocs/usiraq80s90s.html
also
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp...nguage=printer
The fact is, Saddam's military before 1990 was built up mostly by the Reagan, then Bush administration. Including a massive sale of duel-use missile computing system the DAY BEFORE Saddam invaded Iraq.The story of U.S. involvement with Saddam Hussein in the years before his 1990 attack on Kuwait -- which included large-scale intelligence sharing, supply of cluster bombs through a Chilean front company, and facilitating Iraq's acquisition of chemical and biological precursors -- is a topical example of the underside of U.S. foreign policy. It is a world in which deals can be struck with dictators, human rights violations sometimes overlooked, and accommodations made with arms proliferators, all on the principle that the "enemy of my enemy is my friend."
God, I love being right.
Lefties would never do anything of the sort, of course.Originally posted by Sava
oh and about Saddam's intimate weapons involvement with the US:
http://www.casi.org.uk/info/usdocs/usiraq80s90s.html
also
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp...nguage=printer
The fact is, Saddam's military before 1990 was built up mostly by the Reagan, then Bush administration. Including a massive sale of duel-use missile computing system the DAY BEFORE Saddam invaded Iraq.
God, I love being right.
...people like to cry a lot... - Pekka
...we just argue without evidence, secure in our own superiority. - Snotty
They don't send B-52s out to shoot down MiGs. They only shoot down MiGs when Migs are trying to stop them from dropping bombs, in this case, on Hanoi, home of millions of women and children.Originally posted by Whoha
It was shooting down a mig apparently. The claim he makes about the plaque is that it is extolling the virtue of bombing women and children on Christmas eve.
The plaque doesn't say specifically it was killing women and children, but it proudly announces its participation in a operation that murdered women and children. I know it's hard for you conservatives, but try using your native ability to reason.
Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...
I dunno. Let us run the U.S. for a while and we'll see. You can have it back if it doesn't work out.Originally posted by Caligastia
Lefties would never do anything of the sort, of course.
Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...
B-52's shooting down MiG's... yeah the B-52 is an awesome interceptor and air to air fighter...
Gee... I don't think anybody is arguing that bombers don't kill people... hell, we were at war.
But there is a big difference in what he implies the plaque says... The plague is dedicated to the military personal who simply did their job and fought the war. As usual, he doesn't get it right, and takes things out of context. For every war memorial for our troops, one can assume that people on the other side died as well... and their purpose isn't to gloat over the fact that others were killed...
Keep on Civin'
RIP Baron O
The plague is dedicated to the military personal who simply did their job and fought the war.
No thanks, we already saw what you did to those other countries we let you have.Originally posted by chegitz guevara
I dunno. Let us run the U.S. for a while and we'll see. You can have it back if it doesn't work out.
...people like to cry a lot... - Pekka
...we just argue without evidence, secure in our own superiority. - Snotty
Larry Horse says Ming is to diseasy...
It's one thing to memorialize a job well done. It's another to memorialize a war crime, which the Christmas Eve bombings were. It's be like having a statue for a soldier who shot a VC saving his fellow soldiers while they were busy slaughtering My Lai.Originally posted by Ming
For every war memorial for our troops, one can assume that people on the other side died as well... and their purpose isn't to gloat over the fact that others were killed...
Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...
I guess you simply ignored the fact that it was for all the different crews that served on board the aircraft during it's 26 year history...Originally posted by chegitz guevara
It's one thing to memorialize a job well done. It's another to memorialize a war crime, which the Christmas Eve bombings were. It's be like having a statue for a soldier who shot a VC saving his fellow soldiers while they were busy slaughtering My Lai.
Your example is irrelevent... I'm sure there are people on the Viet Nam Memorial that probably participated in war crimes as well... but that doesn't invalidate the memorial or mean that it was built to honor war crimes.
Keep on Civin'
RIP Baron O
You are right Ming... but you have to realize that when some people see a memorial of a B-52, they think more about the innocents that it killed rather than the people who flew them.
I don't necessarily have that kind of view of war memorials. I acknowledge they were made in good faith. But there are two sides to the coin.
WTH Ming!?Originally posted by Ming
Gee... I don't think anybody is arguing that bombers don't kill people... hell, we were at war.
But there is a big difference in what he implies the plaque says... The plague is dedicated to the military personal who simply did their job and fought the war. As usual, he doesn't get it right, and takes things out of context. For every war memorial for our troops, one can assume that people on the other side died as well... and their purpose isn't to gloat over the fact that others were killed...
Where's your usual ''
Spec.
-Never argue with an idiot; He will bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.
And I think of all the enemy soldiers that the plane killed... and the brave people that flew the aircraft. You can abuse the leaders that picked the missions... But the plague isn't memorializing the leaders that sent the plane on "illegal missions"... it is memorializing the crews that flew it.
The plague is NOT a memorial to killing civilians.
That's all I'm saying.
Keep on Civin'
RIP Baron O
Why is anyone sligthly interested in what MM says. There are far better people out there speaking out against guns and you people cling on to him.
Which side are we on? We're on the side of the demons, Chief. We are evil men in the gardens of paradise, sent by the forces of death to spread devastation and destruction wherever we go. I'm surprised you didn't know that. --Saul Tigh
Plague again, Ming? Something in the back of your mind?
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-Bokonon
yeah... pretty funny... it's one of those good typos
Keep on Civin'
RIP Baron O
Yea, thats why every weapon in his arsenal is Soviet,french or Chinese, because we armed him.
The fact is, that US trade with saddam barely amounted to 1% of all trade done with him. Doesn't quite qualify "mostly built up by the Reagan, then Bush administration" does it.
Now for this site:
http://www.casi.org.uk/info/usdocs/u...0s90s.html#ten
Number 11:
":Later in the year the Reagan Administration secretly began to allow Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Egypt to transfer to Iraq U.S. howitzers, helicopters, bombs and other weapons.[11]"
http://projects.sipri.se/armstrade/IRQ_IMPRTS_73-02.pdf
Eygpt:80 Training planes that are propeller driven
Jordan:2 Spirit S-76's, civilian craft that have to be modified.
Itally: 8 helicopters and 1 ship.
SA and Kuwait aren't even on the list of Places Iraq bought arms from.
Eygpt did sell them several soviet made weapons, thats pretty much it for the list. # 11 is wrong. In any event, the premise does not make sense, the US is the largest exporter of arms to the world, we would have sold them directly to him if we wanted to.
Number 37:
"U.S. intelligence reported in 1991 that the U.S. helicopters sold to Iraq in 1983 were used in 1988 to spray Kurds with chemicals.[37]"
I keep seeing this, and I keep seeing no proof of it, it sites an LA times article as a source. Lets see,30(not 10 as the piece states) Bell helicopters, or over 200 soviet helicopters... which one is more likely... and remember, our helicopters can be brought down by small arms fire, but the Hinds are quite impervious to that form of attack.
Number 38:
""Reagan administration records show that between September and December 1988, 65 licenses were granted for dual-use technology exports. This averages out as an annual rate of 260 licenses, more than double the rate for January through August 1988."[38]"
Only 15 licenses ever sent anything to Iraq, http://161.203.16.4/t2pbat4/150766.pdf, so this is a very misleading quote.
As for non-conventional weapons, Iraq had chemical and Bio warfare capabilities as early as 1980, well before we ever met with him,unless one of the 15 licenses was a Time machine, the allegation that we helped Saddam develop this Capability is Absurd. The Europeans and others were keeping him well equipped in that regards.
The House Banking & Finance committee shows that we sold Iraq biological research materials, not 500 tons of thiodiglycol like the Belgians:
http://cbw.sipri.se/cbw/002050100.html
Finally, to round everything out, the picture MM shows in that quote, is of a bunch of soviet tanks.
test. ****
04-06-04 Killdozer NEVER FORGET
Stadtluft Macht Frei
Killing it is the new killing it
Get Rich or Die Tryin'
double test. fag fags faggot faggots
04-06-04 Killdozer NEVER FORGET
Stadtluft Macht Frei
Killing it is the new killing it
Get Rich or Die Tryin'
Posting Permissions
Bookmarks