DESIGN: Expected Behavior of Research Pacts?

[NelsonAndBronte]

I know this is bugged, but how is it SUPPOSED to function? The function Science::ComputeScienceFromResearchPact appears to sum up the science generated in each city of the partner civ and then multiply that total by 1.05. Therefore you get 105% of the other civ's total science. I think the bugged behavior is that AI civs get an advance every turn whilst the player civ gets nothing. Getting such a massive amount of science would explain the advance every turn problem. What is the number supposed to be? I haven't figured out why the human player gets nothing yet.

[MrBaggins]

The better question is, do we want it to function?

And obviously 105% of the others science is too much. A bonus percentage like 30% of the others total science, provided you are reseaching the same thing. Obviously you need an embassy.

I think its basically a good idea... but you have to look for the abuse in the situation.

I think here's the abuse:

The player avoids researching X... but goes ahead with more important (to him) advances.

When a lowly AI civ starts to research X, the player forms a research pact. He gets a modest bonus to science (even if he's ahead of all other AI's scientifically) and the lowly AI gets a big boost, which is ultimately meaningless.

[Peter Triggs]

I think the bugged behavior is that AI civs get an advance every turn whilst the player civ gets nothing.

That's what was perceived as the bug, but if you think about it, it's not a bug at all. IIRC, the AI will only enter into a research pact when you've got a huge lead. They then get 105% of your huge science and start getting advances every turn because they're so far behind. You get 105% of their measly science and don't see anything happening. So it was concluded that it's a bug.

I used to think that research pacts were a good thing to have in the game. But now I'm not at all so sure.

[MrBaggins]

Well... two comments.

1) That is based on the currently awful state of AI competitiveness. Hopefully something can be done about that

2) Advantages which REQUIRE diplomacy, and thus require good diplomatic behavior, are not available to human players who behave "badly": being warlike, breaking agreements, sneak attacking... etc.

It can be controlled, and thus shouldn't necessarily be a problem. 105% seems a bit much though.

[NelsonAndBronte]

Well, naturally 105% is an absurd amount -- you get ALL of the other civ's science with a 5% bonus on top!! I haven't managed to scrounge a copy of CTP2 yet, so I was wondering just what the manual says a research pact SHOULD do.

I haven't made enough sense out of the diplomacy stuff to see what makes the AI desire certain proposals over others. It does use a factor of 5 when determining whether or not the AI science is 'very low' when compared to the other party's science.

[The Big Mc]

is it when i am coding i often get some one looking and asking which finds me the bugs a lot quicker

[SMIFFGIG]

imo the research pact should stay, it has the possibilty to be a great feature, (and im sure it already is on mplay), currently just needs a much improved AI to make the feature viable, but please dont remove it.

On another issue, remember the bug if you traded a technology for gold with the AI. The AI got the technology, but the player never recieved the gold. This really pissed me off.
I was wondering if this is being or has already been fixed?

[kaan]

the no money bug is still in there as far as i recall.

I imagine the research pact to work something like this:
two nations have a research pact, lets call them nation1 and nation2.
nation1 and nation2 is almost equally advanced and nation1 already have the tech nation2 is researching therefore nation2 gets a 100% bonus on its own research for as long as it takes to complete that tech. This works both ways ofcourse
If at some point the two nations is researching the same tech they will pool their research points and thus reach the new tech at the same time. This is to signify that the two nations are openly cooperating to research the tech.
And last but not least it should be easyer to steal tech from nations that is engaged in a research pact because of the openness involved.

What do you all think of that?
Klaus

[SMIFFGIG]

nice idea Kaan

It would be also nice to expand on the logic of this feature.
1 example being what government nation1 and nation2 are in

if both nation1 and nation2 are in democracy, there is a 100% bonus (as u stated)

but say a nation1 is democracy and nation2 is facism, i think there should be some considerate differences in this value

However i dont want to expand on this to much as it will leak into a whole new concept of how different civs act and make peace etc depending on what government they are.

I made a post a LOOONG time ago about this idea.
In short, should a democracy allied with facists
have the some benifits and limits as a
democracy allied with a democracy

I think not

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Originally posted by kaan
I imagine the research pact to work something like this:
two nations have a research pact, lets call them nation1 and nation2.
nation1 and nation2 is almost equally advanced and nation1 already have the tech nation2 is researching therefore nation2 gets a 100% bonus on its own research for as long as it takes to complete that tech. This works both ways ofcourse
Klaus

so why not just exchange those techs?
what about making science pacts focused on a single tech.. both (or all nations included) pool there science output.. then all parties involved get that science really quick and the pact is over.

can be especially usefull on sciences which prevent pollution later in the game, or a means to counter whatever horrific tech a noninvolved party wields (examples sonar against subs, radar against bombers, dsi against nukes)

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wow, that was really an old thread i bumped