Civ3 Christmas Chat, December 21, 2001
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[DGahaFIRAXIS] rather I played Civ 1 on the Amiga, duh the Amy never got Civ II I don't think
[Jeff_Morris_FIRAXIS] Been enjoying your editing tools...cool stuff
[DGahaFIRAXIS] hey Vik
[DGahaFIRAXIS] our reigning CivTrivia champion ;)
[Jeff_Morris_FIRAXIS] CRAZY!
[Gramphos] I like the poster and the stone
[Libertarian] Speaking of CivTrivia, I had e-mailed the site asking whether it was possible to win entering late. No response.
[DGahaFIRAXIS] Glad they got there safe Gramphos
[Jeff_Morris_FIRAXIS] Actually, I've been really happy with the mod/map output...The editor was focused on modifying the game we made...the rest...well...stay tuned
[ColdFever] Good evening here from Germany - this is Kai Fiebach, the one who got into trouble for the German translation project - is it possible to get a statement from Firaxis what kind of mods are allowed and what kind of mods are prohibited?
[dmantione] I know someone who bought his first pc, because he thought there was no civ for the Amiga...
[Gramphos] Yea, I just got the poster indoor before it started to snow.
[draz2] why are there different boxes for US or Europe releases? are we that different? :)
[DGahaFIRAXIS] Lib, the game was designed so you couldn't cheat by answering old questions again under a new name
[ACS_MarkG] mod/map output?
[Jeff_Morris_FIRAXIS] The tweak mods like Korns, the redone world maps, things like that
[Jeff_Morris_FIRAXIS] I do my own tweak mods all the time, but primarily to dry run stuff
[draz2] also it was a shame that no tech chart was in the box like in SMAC and civ2 I know it was in the deluxe version... but thats not for sale here in Europe
[adaMada] do you have any idea at all, even a rough one, as to when the next patch will be? not a definate answer (i know you can't give it :) ), just a time period... sorry if this was asked before
[dmantione] Yeah, the envelope in which the cd was packaged was also a bit cheapish.
[draz2] when its done ;)
[draz2] yeah I agree dmantione
[Jeff_Morris_FIRAXIS] I miss the reference card
[Jeff_Morris_FIRAXIS] But hey...we had an index in the manual..unlike SMAC
[DGahaFIRAXIS] A lot of this stuff is really Infogrames' call, it's their game
[draz2] I miss my tech chart :( "snif" ;)
[Jeff_Morris_FIRAXIS] We wanted to add the functionality in game
[korn469] which company was easy to work with infogrames or EA?
[Jeff_Morris_FIRAXIS] The chart with the LE was really just 4 screenshots of the science advisor
[Jeff_Morris_FIRAXIS] They both have their strengths
[adaMada] i have a tech chart (LE) and, no offense faraxis, but draz -- you don't want it :D.
[DGahaFIRAXIS] beat me to that one ;)
[Jeff_Morris_FIRAXIS] Beyond that...no comment
[korn469] ok
[draz2] the manual is quite good though :)
[draz2] haha ok
[ColdFever] Would it be a future option to release a game as shareware?
[DGahaFIRAXIS] Kai, again that is Infogrames' decision
[Jeff_Morris_FIRAXIS] Maybe...internet software distribution is an intriguing idea
[Trifna] Question: Is there a possibility (and is it something you think about) of including fan-made stuff in an official Firaxis product? Such as adding maps (ex: Earth map) and things that are espescially appreciated by fans. Or is there some problematic legal issues?
[Jeff_Morris_FIRAXIS] Maybe....
[Jeff_Morris_FIRAXIS] I like the idea though
[DGahaFIRAXIS] Personally I would love to see that happen
[Gramphos] Why aren't the images for the foreign advisor read from pediaicons.txt?
[Libertarian] Another aspect that deserves recognition: the artwork is wonderful.
[Jeff_Morris_FIRAXIS] Probably different programmers implmeneted it...a good idea
[ACS_MarkG] what do you respond to the "the game was rushed, we're beta testers" argument?
[ColdFever] Everybody is born as a beta tester :)
[DGahaFIRAXIS] a lot of guests in here today =)
[draz2] good question.....
[Libertarian] Yep. Good question.
[adaMada] -- markos fields a tough question; silence in the chat room... ;) --
[quinalla] Do you guys ever get over to the stories forum?
[Jeff_Morris_FIRAXIS] Software development is a business...
[draz2] I know that with civ its tough to get a bug free game out....
[draz2] ofcourse u wanted the game out b4 x-mas...
[Libertarian] LOL! Has so much meaning ever been packed into so few words?
* Trifna puts notice that he doesn't bother of beeing a beta tester if there are some patches after and if it was simply more productive. As long as it doesn't become as some other companies I wont name...
[Jeff_Morris_FIRAXIS] Not much else to say about it...I wish we could have fixed more bugs, but QA often doesn't get all the time it asks for...I got most of the time I asked for an was pretty thrilled!
[DGahaFIRAXIS] The one thing I find interesting is that on one hand people are eager to abandon the "box retail model" because we have the Internet and the "new wave" of technology, but at the same time those people think that patches are wrong
[Jeff_Morris_FIRAXIS] I also wanted a public beta which would have definately caught the nvidia problem...next game ;0!
[korn469] i for one love each time i see a new patch come up with an improvement or ten :)
[adaMada] agreed
[draz2] me 2
[ColdFever] I think for the complexity of Civ the software runs fine - but I wonder why there was no fan beta test - in fact I think the fans are the best beta testers
[Jeff_Morris_FIRAXIS] We'll never release a patch without some new features...it's a good habit
[xerent] next game? so jeff, whens Civ4 coming out? :)
[draz2] :)
[Jeff_Morris_FIRAXIS] By the time the game was fairly representative of it's final state, we didn't have time to do the beta...it's atight window
[David_M1] mm yeah, let's have more features for the editor...soon please!
[ColdFever] WAIT - before Civ4 I would like to get SMAC 2
[Jeff_Morris_FIRAXIS] Civ4....Beats me...
[Jeff_Morris_FIRAXIS] Less than 10 years?
[DGahaFIRAXIS] patience david
[ACS_MarkG] jeff, i'm right saying that civ games will always have some issues in the end-game part simply because it takes too much time to test a game until that part?
[draz2] I havent even used the editor.. am I missing out on anything?
[David_M1] :)
[Trifna] [Jeff_Morris_FIRAXIS] Less than 10 years?
[Trifna] [DGahaFIRAXIS] patience david
[Trifna] thx alot for the answer Jeff :)
[DGahaFIRAXIS] draz, even if you don't want to modify the game it will help you to see how the game operates
[draz2] u worked 2,5 years on civ3?
[Jeff_Morris_FIRAXIS] Well, the major problem is that it's pretty tough to redo all game checklists on every final version. They take 10+ testers 60 hours to finish...we didn't get to finish them on the last version...It was heavily tested, but we couldn't hand check everything...live and learn
[Libertarian] I for one am glad I came here. Much appreciation to you two.
[draz2] aha ok I'll check it out then
[DGahaFIRAXIS] No problem Lib
[Jeff_Morris_FIRAXIS] Civ3 was about that...
[David_M1] yeah, this has been an excellent chat so far.
[Gramphos] I want Colonization II
[Jeff_Morris_FIRAXIS] ...
[korn469] i agree thanks for taking the come to come and shoot the bull with us
[Jeff_Morris_FIRAXIS] A lot of people do
[ColdFever] I want "Cover Action 2"
[Jeff_Morris_FIRAXIS] I want Solo Flight 3!
[dmantione] Yeah one additional vote for colonization II.
[DGahaFIRAXIS] CPU Bach 2002... I'm holding out hope :P
[DilithiumDad] I want SMAX2!
[Mark_L] sorry for being late. can someone tell me if there will be another civ3 patch and if the AI will understand the 512 city limit? Thanks in advance :)
[Jeff_Morris_FIRAXIS] The GURPS source book is about to sign-off...more SMAC background for you!
[DGahaFIRAXIS] Mark: I think Soren has already nailed that one
[DGahaFIRAXIS] not positive thoigh
[draz2] good :)
[DilithiumDad] 512 cities? Corruption kills you long before then!
[jlc9539] It's interesting would you said about the testing.
[DGahaFIRAXIS] or though if you speak English :)
[draz2] check it again LOL
[Mark_L] thanks :)
[Jeff_Morris_FIRAXIS] Probe team adventures in Morgan-town!
[DGahaFIRAXIS] That sounds like an adult video
[quinalla] haha
[jlc9539] What about Blizzards' stragegy for testing?
[Mark_L] do they have one? ;)
[Libertarian] Why don't you ask for volunteers among the fan base for beta testers?
[Jeff_Morris_FIRAXIS] They haven't had a game sell less than 1million...it's hard to argue with that...QA time is always eaten when dev slips...they must have a mighty powerful QA department
[adaMada] just curiosity: do either of you play starcraft or other RTS games?
[DGahaFIRAXIS] It's also nice when you can delay a game for 2+ years :)
[Jeff_Morris_FIRAXIS] Private public betas require an immense amount of managment
[Jeff_Morris_FIRAXIS] We didn't have the people to pull it off
[jlc9539] Well, they don't release products until they are sure it's up to speck.
[ACS_MarkG] do you think will civ3 reach 1 million?
[Jeff_Morris_FIRAXIS] Probably when german ships!
[draz2] yes
[draz2] I think it will :)
[DGahaFIRAXIS] ada: I can't hang with the clickfests
[Jeff_Morris_FIRAXIS] We usually sell 50% of our games in Europe...most of those in the UK and Germany
[DGahaFIRAXIS] but a lot of other people in the office do
[Libertarian] LOL! There's already debate in the new thread with the announcement about late-game tedium!
[adaMada] lol, 'k
[AlrightyThen1] mid-game tedium
[jlc9539] How does one become a alpha/beta tester for games in developement?
[DGahaFIRAXIS] I tend to play a lot of RPGs and some FPSes
[dmantione] Too bad games are never translated into Dutch
[Trifna] jlc9539: By beeing useful I'll say
[jlc9539] I've always thought that would be a great job!
[DGahaFIRAXIS] it's not glamorous jlc
[DilithiumDad] Tedium does set in at certain points of Civ3 but you have done a great job reducing micromanagement
[Jeff_Morris_FIRAXIS] Just make your self available and known...If a slot opens up, you'll be considered...we may try to resurect the Firaxis beta program...we'll see how it goews
[Trifna] jlc9539: I know an exemple of someone that was asked for testing a game in which there was NO beta test. he simply was very useful.
[Mark_L] I used to be a playtester...not as fun as it seems. very tedious work, very little play
[Misfire] I always thought that testing would suck all the fun out of gaming. :-/
[DGahaFIRAXIS] it's like being a beer taster or ice cream taster.. you go in thinking you'll love it, by the time you finish you hate beer / ice cream
[Jeff_Morris_FIRAXIS] Professional testing is not a great job...You're in the door, but work wise it's a pain
[AlrightyThen1] Firaxis should have a QA department that does their testing for them
[Mark_L] exactly
[Jeff_Morris_FIRAXIS] A good idea
[DilithiumDad] Just hire testers with addictive personality disorders and see if thye get hooked on the game! :)
[Jeff_Morris_FIRAXIS] Our testers are ramping up on Moo3 now!
[draz2] cool
[Jeff_Morris_FIRAXIS] It's the hiring part that makes it tricky
[ColdFever] I think the fanbase is already well organized and could be very helpful in a lot of tasks: beta testing, translating, PR
[draz2] when is that coming out? :)
[Mark_L] how much of BotF is put in MoO3?
[Jeff_Morris_FIRAXIS] I always heard 3 months after us
[draz2] thats soon
[Jeff_Morris_FIRAXIS] Proabably not much...Did quicksilver do BotF?
[DilithiumDad] Fan base would be more active with a multiplayer patch!!
[Misfire] There are indications that MOO3 may slip, but no official announcements as far as I know.
[AlrightyThen1] Testing wil (hopefully) catch bugs and maybe glaring design flaws but the latter is iffy
[Libertarian] Especially PR. No offense, but y'all need serious help in that area.
[Trifna] Libertarian: What's PR?
[Gramphos] I'm happy with the game in English. 99% of all games translated to Swedish have grammar or spelling errors and typos.
[beegboss] Do any of the Firaxis guys know what happened to the Simtex folks?
[DilithiumDad] Fireaxis guys: Did you ever see DeadlockII from 1998? Very advanced in many ways --bldn of turn and relatime based straetgy
[Libertarian] Public Relations.
[adaMada] do either of you know if faraxis is considering opening the standard for it's save format/bic format/anything else? also, is there even a CHANCE that we might get some way to modify the AI in the long run?
[Jeff_Morris_FIRAXIS] Public betas can catch bugs, but it's usually the same bug repeated a billion times...In my experience they're great at compat testing, finding exploits, and giving 'fresh eye' impressions
[DGahaFIRAXIS] holy question flood batman
[ESPL-SlasH] lo all
[jymmyg] hya
[Jeff_Morris_FIRAXIS] Bic...Mike B is pretty open with info
[jlc9539] How long has MOO3 been in developement?
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