Beyond the Pit [Pitboss Diplomacy Thread] [Warfare-Turn Timer Issue Discussion]

[The Capo]

Hey everyone, Capo here.

This is a debate thread for the Diplogame "Beyond the Pit," which is both the first Pitboss Diplogame (that I am aware of) and the first Diplogame with a full 18 player roster. If you are a member of the game you know we have had difficult times deciding on a lot of rules so far, and, due to the amount of players, have filled our other threads with this issue, which is cutting down on the purpose of our Organization thread.

Therefore we have this thread. I have also inserted a poll that will gague some general ideas and get a consensus on what people think we should do.

Feel free to give your thoughts on this issue even if you are not part of Beyond the Pit; any suggestions that help us make this the best Diplogame we can will help us out greatly and help future Pitboss-based Diplogames as well.

EVERYONE in BtP knows the issue, but I'll try and explain it quickly;

1) Originally and currently our rule is that, during wartime, a player must wait until 1/3rd of the turn timer has elapsed (which in this case is 8 hours) before taking their next turn. The purpose of this is to ensure that players don't take "double moves," or two moves while the other player has only made one. I understand that this is not TECHNICALLY what happens in this case, but during war you can see how one can take advantage.

2) There was an incident, which I will not explain, in which this was purported to have occured. The result was that we lost a player. The person who was accused of doing this got no punishment, which to some players was considered wrong.

3) The issue has returned again, and certain players have explained that one can still take advantage, especially when we have a game that has players in multiple countries and multiple continents around the world. Eight hours, some players contend, could elapse during inopportune times in other areas of the world and this could create difficulties for other players to play. One of our Australian players suggested that he COULD, if so inclined, rig it so that a player in the United States would be sleeping while he took his turns.

I hope that makes sense, the BtP players will already be aware of the issue, so if I left anything out please repeat it here so we can discuss it in a civil fashion. Hopefully we can get something done here.

Thanks.

[Pitboss Vikings]

my suggestion was take turns, if the enemy try to stop you moving by not moiving till last 30 seconds then he gets awarning for first time , cyber reloads the turn and it is redone.

if it occurs twice then the palyer is booted from game.

[The Capo]

I like the idea behind that Raz, but I think people would be against that because it may make turns take longer. What if you are at war with someone who takes a long time to take a turn? Then you have to wait for them to move, which means the turns take longer. That's the issue I have with that. Although I think its probably the MOST honorable method to take.

[CyberShy]

Making it truely turn based is not realistic.
Some players can only move once per day.
imagine that player A can only move 3am while player B can only move at 6pm.

If player A has to move after player B, then that's impossible for him.
This game is simultanious. That has advantages and disadvantages.

If we all deal with that small disadvantage by playing fair and reasonable, then I don't see a problem at all with the 33% rule.

[The Capo]

I agree with you on that point CS.

But I think there has to be punishment regardless of whether we think they gained anything out of it. That really isn't a good way of enforcing it. I think if you break the rule there should be a serious punishment for it, rather than a wait and see punishment. So I think if we can agree to that then we will have a general consensus on our hands.

[Pitboss Vikings]

imagine that player A can only move 3am while player B can only move at 6pm.

If player A has to move after player B, then that's impossible for him.

actually you are wrong... Palyer A moves first.. eithe he or player b decalare war.. they have to wait til lthe other moves..

Player B moves at 6pm. this is after player A....

If player B decalres war hew has to wait till Palyer A moves which is the next mormning so it is after player B ..


hmmmm it WORKS !!!!

[Pitboss Japan]

lets just forget the rule and let the chips fall where they may

[Pitboss Vikings]

well so be it...

next war i will use the Double move ....

[Pitboss Japan]

that's fine with me. just as long as you don't mind haveing a few of your cities sacked and burned to the ground.

[Pitboss Vikings]

little man with little warriors shoudl not boast too loud..

[Pitboss Japan]

lol wait 30 turns then say that again

[Pitboss Vikings]

building pyramids is not the answer to everything..

[Pitboss Japan]

that will be done in 5 turns but i wasn't refuring to that. but if your willing to wait i'll more then gladly show you how powerful i really am. and this time i'll take off the kid gloves and fight you for real.

[Pitboss Vikings]

oh now i scared....


what your huge fleet of galleys going to wipe me out, or is it your secret alliances buddies....

[Pitboss Japan]

nope just me and if you had a navy i would take them out but ur navy is too far away for me to care about. and i won't wipe you out just make you wish you took my offer while you had a chance.

[Pitboss Vikings]

well stop spamming capos thread..

[Pitboss Japan]

ok sorry capo. though i do beleive this rule should not exist. there is no waiting in real life war so why should there be in the game. sure it would make it a little fair but life isn't fair and neither is war. any one who has faught in war knows this to be true so just let it be.

[Pinchak]

Leave it to Japan and Vikings to spam up yet another Beyond the Pit thread.

[Pinchak]

Just my <-- 2 cents

Whatever "wait time" we decide on, it should start immediately after the last player in the war moves. No waiting for the next turn to begin before this "wait time" starts.

We want to give players a chance to react, but we don't want to excessively shorten players time window to play their turn.

For example.... PlayerA plays his wartime move one hour into the start of a new turn. Turns are 22 hours. I really don't think PlayerA should have to wait 28 hours until they play their second turn... which would be required according to the current wording.

Really though, you guys should just give up on coming up with a rule to address this. BEEN THERE, DONE THAT, NOTHING WORKS.

I'll toss out another pandoras box just to prove my point above...

Ever think about what happens if one player logs in, plays his moves, but doesn't end the turn? Did he violate the timer? If so, how do we track this? Chew on that for a bit...

Or how about a three way war? Four way war? Beginning to see the bigger picture here and why it is so hard to implement a rule that WORKS?

[The Capo]

Pinchak is right, yet again.

And seriously you two (Japan and Vikings), how does this happen everytime? Why are you two so dead-set on fighting eachother? I don't understand it. Obviously Japan wants you around if he is willing to help you fend off barbarians.

Can't you see you two love eachother?!?!?!

But in all seriousness you've proved, beyond my attempts to try and quash it, that Ozzy and co. have been right. You just have to shoot your spam everywhere, all over everything, you just spam spam spam spam spam everywhere. You are blasting us with spam, its just spam right in my face, in Pinchak's face, in Ozzy's face, and all over Cybershy's face (and tits) that its ridiculous.

Keep your spam to yourselves.

[Pitboss Japan]

you know this thread would not matter if we just got rid of the rule. stop making everything so much more difficult then it has to be. besides even if we leave the rule the way it is what's to stop another civ like the mayans to just ignore the rule and move anyways?