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Looks like you'll lose your fresh water, too, unless you settle on the dye. Plus, your corn will then require 1 semi-useless farm. Being carthage, I'd probably be shooting for a CE. I'd stay right there.
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Chieftain
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Jul 2008
time: 04:41
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Settling on the dye would actually be a really good idea, in my opinion. That would mean you could use more squares for towns. And having a resource on the city square means you get access to that resource (once you have the required tech, Calendar). This is an excellent starting location. I agree with the computers choice, and it's just one turn lost.
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quote:
Originally posted by Nikomakkos
Settling on the dye would actually be a really good idea, in my opinion. That would mean you could use more squares for towns. |
With probable tiles in the black areas, settling in place allows 15 Towns. Whereas moving to the coast dye allows 11 maybe 12.
You can see that the coast curls around the top plains, and continues west of the dye. So you lose quite a bit to coast tiles.
quote:
And having a resource on the city square means you get access to that resource (once you have the required tech, Calendar). |
Losing the couple of turns to make a plantation is not a big problem. Saving "build" turns is really only an issue in the early early game. If I can hook up copper 10 turns early, that can be huge. If I can hook up dye 10 turns early, all it does is give me +1 happy across my empire. Net result is a some extra commerce and hammers because I presumably have extra citizens (and that even assumes that I have a ton of cities which are sitting there maxed out). But you lose out by having fewer Towns, which is a much bigger issue.
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Chieftain
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Jul 2008
time: 04:41
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quote:
Originally posted by wodan11
With probable tiles in the black areas, settling in place allows 15 Towns. Whereas moving to the coast dye allows 11 maybe 12.
You can see that the coast curls around the top plains, and continues west of the dye. So you lose quite a bit to coast tiles.
Losing the couple of turns to make a plantation is not a big problem. Saving "build" turns is really only an issue in the early early game. If I can hook up copper 10 turns early, that can be huge. If I can hook up dye 10 turns early, all it does is give me +1 happy across my empire. Net result is a some extra commerce and hammers because I presumably have extra citizens (and that even assumes that I have a ton of cities which are sitting there maxed out). But you lose out by having fewer Towns, which is a much bigger issue. |
You won't necessarily have fewer towns, they'll just belong to another city. You can still use that land. Having a coastal city has all kinds of benefits.
It will be very long until you can have such a huge and happy city that it'll be working close to 20 squares. I think that the coastal option is more beneficial, because the earlier part of the game is more important usually.
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Warlord
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Jan 2004
time: 23:41
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Why not move your warrior one tile to the northeast, thus revealing more of the coastal tiles before deciding on city placement? Or did you already move your warrior?
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Chieftain
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Jul 2008
time: 04:41
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Yeah, tell us Okblacke, have you moved the warrior at all or are you still sitting looking at that start position waiting for more advice? :P
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Deity
Dance Dance for the Revolution!
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Jan 1970
time: 23:41
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Normally I'd build right there, but as the Carthaginians a coastal move is a good idea.
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Warlord
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Feb 2003
time: 04:41
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If the map is Pangaea, coastal cities would not give you much advantage, if you are playing on something else, then waisting a turn might be a good idea.
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Deity
Dance Dance for the Revolution!
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Jan 1970
time: 23:41
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quote:
Originally posted by wodan11
Losing the couple of turns to make a plantation is not a big problem. Saving "build" turns is really only an issue in the early early game. If I can hook up copper 10 turns early, that can be huge. If I can hook up dye 10 turns early, all it does is give me +1 happy across my empire. |
In this case, having the capital w/dye next to river should kick in his FIN bonus in the city square, which could be a big boost early on.
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Technical Assistant
Of the Peanuts Gallery
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Apr 2004
time: 22:41
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I'd settle in place. There will be plenty of spots for coastal cities, and the starting location often has bonus surprise resources you can't see (ie, copper/iron/etc.) I'd be surprised if that plains hill did not have one of the early starting resources...
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Chieftain
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Jul 2008
time: 04:41
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The free irrigation for the wheat is an interesting point, I hadn't thought of that. But I think the 3g on the city square far outweighs that though. Damnit, I wish I had that starting position and was playing right now!
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Deity
Dance Dance for the Revolution!
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Jan 1970
time: 23:41
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I don't think cities spread irrigation until Civil Service.
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Warlord
Sweden
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Nov 2005
time: 05:41
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There is forest between the settler and the coast. Does not not mean 2 turns for moving?
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okblacke
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Warlord
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Dec 2003
time: 20:41
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OK, let me explain the situation.
A little background: I'm a long time Civ player but until Civ 3, I sucked at it. (I mean, really, play at the lowest level, turtle up until you get tanks, then steamroll everyone else. How lame is that?) But Civ 3 kind of turned things around a bit to where I could even play on noble. (I could even win on noble or higher on a duel or small map.)
Basically, the huge imbalance created by the resources forced me to get aggressive and changed my game up. I loved Civ 3. I understand that around here, that's sort of like loving Van Halen when Sammy Hagar was singing lead or something. But there it is.
Anyway, I'm playing on some wussy level (Warlord), but I've decided to make my stand on this map. I don't know why, exactly, but I have. I think because I can usually pretty easily win on Warlord going cultural. (In fact, however I start a game, it usually ends as a cultural victory.) But in this case, directly to my southeast is Montezuma.
And he kicks my ass. I've run this map 4-5 times figuring it should be pretty easy, but I just don't have the chops to balance the early military. (Usually, I neglect military until someone attacks, then I start pumping out units and cutting back on research till everything's upgraded.)
Other info: To the north is Qin. And somewhere to the south are Justinian and Huyana. I'm not sure if we're on continents or pangaea or what. It's a fractal map with 6 opponents (random size).
That picture is after the warrior has moved.
Those of you guessing the hill has bronze or iron are wrong. In fact, that's part of my problem. I don't have bronze, iron or horses. I do have ivory, so I beelined for...elephants...uh...construction? and that allowed me to hold off Monty. But I still feel like I'm losing.
I'll post an updated picture. But my plan is to keep playing this map until I can really beat it.
Consider this a plea for assistance out of lameness.
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okblacke
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Warlord
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Dec 2003
time: 20:41
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OK, so, answering everyone's questions:
- It's two turns, not one, to move to the coast.
- The map is "all I know"; I've already moved the warrior.
- I know a lot more because I've played this opening half-a-dozen times by now.
- There's no seafood.
- I can post the save if some of you want to play it. I learned a lot from Civ 3 "walkthroughs". (I learned, for example, exactly how hard I wanted to play. Heh.)
- The nearest metals are: bronze, seven tiles NE, near Qin's territory; iron, I believe is sitting somewhere below Monty.
- Still don't know what kind of map.
I've made a bunch of mistakes here, as you can see:
- I've let the capital's worker wander off to work on other cities while the capital itself has pop working unimproved tiles.
- I've moved too slowly turning out settlers. (So far I've always ended up with three cities on this map, even when, in this case, I actually popped a settler from a goody hut.)
- I chased after the Apostolic palace and lost, resulting in a lot of cash but few troops.
- I just plain don't have enough production.
- I compulsively road things up. I'm not sure it matters much at this point, but I tend to road everywhere, then build the improvement.
- I tried to take Texcoco knowing full well I didn't have the manpower.
- Haven't scouted enough.
Now, things I think I've done right, or at least less wrongly.
- Hooked up the quarry and got Stonehenge. That's helped me fight culture creep from the Chinese.
- Beelined war elephants. This has allowed me to take out any of Monty's troops that attack. He's trying to head up north to my bronze, which allows me to hit his Quecha with elephants the instant they step out of the forests. though I'm still too low on production to take his cities.
- Beelined alphabet. Tech trading allowed me to trade with everyone NOT Monty.
- Kept up enough with military to be at 3rd.
Even though I'm ahead on points, I feel like I've lost. I don't have the juice to actually take Monty's cities. It will be many turns before I do.
I'm beelining gunpowder which I'm not sure is a good thing.
I've never been good at placing workers or using specialists (except I have done the CS slingshot and used scientists; that's about my whole strategy).
Note that I'm super concerned about the game at this point; I plan to start again. What I'm really looking for is a confident enough start that I can get past the opening stage with a strong enough start to eliminate Monty as a serious threat, and not be too worried about Qin or Huyana.
I think, at Warlord, this should be pretty easy.
 Attachment: civ4.jpg
This has been downloaded 111 time(s).
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Chieftain
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Jul 2008
time: 04:41
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You do seem to have copper. Dude, start again, build the capital in the same place you chose, by the coast. Go for Bronze Working straight ahead and chop all those damn trees there! Chop a worker first, then have your two workers chop a settler. Settle by the copper we can see in the screen shot. Settle another city, build barracks and lots of axemen, at least a few. Get some more workers, preferably two for each city and now your set.
This is a really good start, you have everything you could wish for, even stones for wonders. And oh so many trees... You know they are primarily for chopping!
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Chieftain
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Jul 2008
time: 04:41
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Another good thing to do if you don't want the AI to attack you too much, is either be the same religion, or not have one. I see that you founded Judaism. I am of the opinion that time is better spent researching something else to get ahead. Like maybe Mathematics -> Construction if you want to get rid of Monty asap (which would be a good idea).
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for the city square and 7? 
