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Moderator
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Apr 1999 time: 19:09
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This is a model that I've worked on in haphazard fashion for several months behind the curtain....in light of the recent discussions here, I thought I might trot it out into the sunlight and see what you guys think of it....see how it ties in with some of the other elements we've been discussing of late. If you love it...splendid! If you think it's headed off in the wrong direction....let me know why, and we'll see what we can do to address those concerns!
-V.
Deterministic Army Model (version n)
I know, I know…I should have called it the Deterministic Combat Model, but this made a better acronym! 
What is it?
It is an entirely deterministic, robust, second generation combat model for the Candle’Bre universe (okay, so it’s not ENTIRELY deterministic, but reasonably close!)
What’s it for?
Right now, it’s for discussion and kicking ideas around. Eventually, some version of it is for (eventual!) implementation into the framework of the game.
Defining Chaos
From earliest times, Kings and Generals have attempted to model the effects of war…to create simulations that would help them determine success or failure on the field of battle. In that regard, we are following in a fine, time honored tradition, and I am glad to be able to contribute in some small way to that venerable epic. It is my hope that what is presented here will result in compelling game play, and be seen as a bit of a departure from traditional game theory methodologies of attempting to model warfare in any era.
The Ground Rules
Before we can begin the process of defining the chaos of war, the first thing that needs doing is to lay out a basic framework. That framework will be provided below. A lot of it won’t make much sense in the beginning…it will (or may) not be immediately obvious how everything I’m saying relates back to each other, but that’s okay. The hope is that in the end, all will be made clear. If it is not, then I have failed in some way.
The Military Structure of Candle’Bre
The smallest unit of measure for troops in Candle’Bre is the company. A company contains 100 armed and dangerous human beings.
Six companies combine to form a Regiment. These are the two essential building blocks of armies in Candle’Bre. Companies are the standard unit of measure for armies in the Realm, and Regiments are where the concept of combined arms dwell. The subject of combined arms and their overall effects on combat will be covered in detail later on.
Two to five Regiments combine to form a Brigade.
Two to four Brigades combine to form a Division.
Two to four Divisions combine to form an Army.
These are the military building blocks in Candle’Bre.
Summary:
Company = 100 men
Regiment = 6 Companies
Brigade = 2-5 Regiments (12-30 companies)
Division = 2-4 Regiments (24-120 companies)
Army = 2-4 Divisions (48-480 companies)
Putting some numbers together
The following are assumptions used to create the core model.
· A human soldier has 6hp (hit points). That is to say, he can sustain six points of damage before being slain.
· By extension then, we know that a full strength company of soldiers has 600hp (6*100).
For the moment, there are only three types of troops to consider:
Infantry
Archers
Cavalry
Even when more troop types are added later, with the exception of siege engines, all will fall into one of the three above categories (ie., Skirmishers, Pikemen and Mercenaries are all considered to be subsets of Infantry)
Troops have an initiative value, based upon what type they are. Baseline initiative values are:
Archers (5)
Cavalry (7)
Infantry (9)
Initiative is used to determine which troop category strikes “first” in a given combat round. The lower the number, the faster the troop type, and the sooner in the battle round it gets to strike. Thus, based on the above, Archers would fire first, Cavalry would strike second, and infantry would attack last.
This is important, because when a faster troop type hits and inflicts damage on a slower troop type, those casualties are recorded BEFORE the slower troop type can retaliate. If a fast troop type hits and inflicts damage on an equally fast troop type, those casualties are noted, but not recorded until AFTER the troop type gets an opportunity to retaliate.
For the moment, there are only three weapons to consider:
Spear (an infantry weapon)
Bow (an archer weapon)
Lance (a cavalry weapon)
Each of these weapons is assigned a damage number. These damage numbers are:
Spear (8)
Bow (5) (2 shots per battle round)
Lance (16) (12), changed 2.08.08 @ Kinjy's recommendation
The baseline damage potential of a company of soldiers can be determined by taking that unit’s damage (by weapon type), multiplied by its current manpower. Thus, a full strength (100 man) company of Infantry soldiers has a baseline damage potential of 800. That is (8 * 100).
This baseline damage potential is considered to be the number of hp caused over the course of a battle when one company of soldiers attacks un-armored opponents, but enemy soldiers are rarely un-armored, and so, a new wrinkle is added.
For the moment, there are only three types of armor to consider:
Leather
Chain
Plate
Each armor type has a defensive value assigned to it. Those values are:
Leather (2)
Chain (4)
Plate (6)
If a shield is used, then it increases the armor value by +1
Shield only (1)
Leather + Shield (3)
Chain + Shield (5)
Plate + Shield (7)
Giving us eight different possibilities:
No Armor (0)
Shield only (1)
Leather (2)
Leather + Shield (3)
Chain (4)
Chain + Shield (5)
Plate (6)
Plate + Shield (7)
At game start, the armor values and configurations of troops are as follows:
Infantry: Leather + Shield (3)
Archer: Leather (2)
Cavalry: Chain + Shield (5)
The baseline defensive potential of a unit can be determined by taking that unit’s defensive potential (itself, a function of the numeric value associated with the armor type) multiplied by its current manpower. Thus, a full strength unit of infantry would have a defensive potential of 300. That is, (3 * 100).
If two full strength infantry companies engage in battle, each company would inflict (using baseline numbers only), (800-300) = 500hp of damage in a given battle, but our combat system breaks battles into battle rounds, of which there are six. So to arrive at the damage caused in a single round, this value would have to be divided by six, giving us:
500/6 = 83hp of damaged caused (convention: store ALL fractions till the last step, and then drop all fractions ON the last step), which would kill 13 troops in a given battle round.
Last edited by Velociryx on 08-02-2008 at 12:17
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Moderator
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Apr 1999 time: 19:09
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Combat Mechanism:
Attacker – he who initiates the battle
Defender – the other guy
The attacker’s unit with the lowest initiative strikes (at present, our example only contains two companies…one on each side, both infantry, and both of the same initiative tier, which simplifies things).
So based on the above, the attacking infantry strikes. His damage potential is 800hp. The defender is armored with leather and a shield, giving him a defensive potential of 300hp, thus, the attacker inflicts 500hp/6 (for the damage in a single combat round), or 83hp of damage. The attacker kills 13 men in the defending company.
The defender now counters…since he is also an infantry company (and of the same initiative tier), his losses are not recorded until AFTER he gets his counterattack. Like the unit that attacked him, the defender is spear armed (damage potential of 8), and the unit he’s attacking is armored with leather and a shield (defensive potential of 3), so his damage will wind up being exactly the same. 13 men killed from the aggressor’s company.
This basic mechanic will repeat itself over each unit involved in a given battle.
Kills vs. Captures
25% of all casualties in a given battle round will be considered captures.
75% of all casualties in a given battle round will be considered kills.
Captures are removed from play just as kills are, but are recorded as prisoners of war, and may be bartered for or exchanged at some later time.
Troop Levels
A single company dueling with another single company is interesting, but would, in practice, be a rarity. In truth, when forces clash, there will likely be hundreds, if not thousands of troops on both sides, representing multiple companies of men, and we must come up with some way of differentiating them, one from the other in terms of their performance. To do that, we shall introduce the concept of levels of expertise.
Let us say (arbitrarily) that there are five levels of expertise where troops are concerned. We’ll define them thus:
Levy
Green
Regular
Veteran
Elite
Let us further say that experience in combat lends itself to moving up through these ranks, such that a Levy company of infantry, with sufficient combat experience, can eventually become an elite fighting force.
We’ll do something odd here, and award experience points thus:
For every battle that a company participates in, that company gains +1 experience. If the company was on the LOSING side of the battle, but still managed to survive, then it gains an additional +1 experience (ie., the winners gain the ground, or whatever objective was being fought over, but in general, there is more practical experience and education to be found in the school of hard knocks, and so the loser of a given battle winds up with troops who learned a good deal more from their mistakes).
So in summary: To the winners go the spoils, and +1 XP for each surviving company on the winning side.
We learn from our mistakes, so the surviving companies on the losing side of a battle get +2 XP.
Of course, now we’ll need to define how long it takes to advance through these various levels, and we’ll arbitrarily set those values as well, as follows:
Levy: 0-10 XP
Green: 11-30
Regular: 31-60
Veteran: 61-100
Elite: 101+
So at present, we’ve got levels defined, and a means of advancing through a progression of rank, but the ranks themselves have no “teeth.” They are presently meaningless, which is the next thing we shall address.
Morale
Morale is the measure of a company’s willingness to continue to give battle when things begin to go wrong. All troops start with a specified Morale value (Mor), which is expressed as a percentage. Morale is primarily determined by a unit’s “level,” thusly:
Levy: 50%
Green: 60%
Regular: 75%
Veteran: 90%
Elite: 100%
Each round of battle, the first time a unit sustains damage in battle, that unit’s morale drops by 1%. If that unit is hit a second time during the same battle round, that unit’s morale will drop by 2%. If the unit is hit a third time in the same battle round, that unit’s morale will drop by 4%. (6% for the 4th hit in a battle round, 6% for the 5th, and so on).
Section changed 2.08.08, on recommendations from Kinjy - we'll simplify this and say that each time a unit is ATTACKED (note: the unit need not be damaged by the attack!), that unit's morale drops by -3%, baseline (other factors may cause it to drop more, as explained elsewhere). This should do much to prevent headaches.
Note that if a morale check is called for—see below—the reduction in morale (if there is one) is not taken until AFTER the morale check is performed!
If a cavalry unit hits a non-cavalry unit, the non-cavalry unit suffers an additional –9% loss to its morale (the shock of a cavalry charge can quickly shatter even a well trained unit’s morale).
At certain points during the course of a battle, a unit’s resolve may be tested (ie., a Morale Check may be required). This can happen if:
· A unit sustains damage from a single attack that is equal to, or greater than 15% of its current strength (HP total of the company)
· A unit is hit more than one time in a given combat round (each hit beyond the first automatically requires a morale check)
· Any time a non-cavalry unit is hit by a cavalry unit
· Any time a spell or other in-game effect mandates that a morale check be made
When a Morale Check is called for, a random number is generated (thus, the model is no longer entirely deterministic) between 1 and 100. If the random number is greater than the current Morale of the unit in question, then that unit is considered to be “Disrupted.”
Disrupted Units
A disrupted unit may attack, but it does so at a –25% penalty to its combat effectiveness.
A disrupted unit may defend, but it does so at a –25% penalty to its combat effectiveness.
If a disrupted unit is hit, regardless of the damage it sustains, it MUST immediately make a morale check. If this check fails, the unit becomes Routed.
Routed units
Routed units may not attack.
Routed units may defend, but they do so at a –50% penalty to their combat effectiveness
If a routed unit is hit, regardless of the damage it sustains, it MUST immediately make a morale check. If this check fails, the unit flees from the field of battle (returning to a friendly adjacent province). If there are no friendly, adjacent provinces, then the unit is considered captured. All remaining members of that unit are removed from play, and recorded as prisoners of war.
**Note! It is entirely possible that various effects, either alone or acting in concert can raise the morale of a unit to beyond 100%. This is not only acceptable, but players are encouraged to find ways of boosting the morale of their armies to provide some “cushion” which will give their forces the ability to last longer in a fight!
Other Factors impacting Morale
At player discretion, a Forced March can be issued. Forced March will add +1MP to each company, at the cost of –20% morale. Forced March must be used with great care, as you don’t want troops arriving to a given battle in no shape to fight! Note that only one forced march is possible per unit, per turn.
At player discretion, fortifications can be hastily constructed (rather than waiting several turns for the level to slowly increase). Each level of hastily constructed fortification will cost your men –20% morale. Again, care must be taken when using this approach!
Morale Recovery
Every turn that a unit spends NOT engaged in hand to hand combat with the enemy, morale recovers by 10%. (thus, morale will improve while a siege is ongoing), to whatever its normal maximum level is.
Other effects of units “leveling up”
At each level up (Green, Regular, Veteran, and Elite), when a unit crosses the experience threshold, that unit will be offered a series of promotions. Promotions are a means of guiding and directing the unit toward certain areas of expertise, and can dramatically enhance a unit’s fighting prowess. This allows for a tremendous amount of player-controlled variability of the composition and overall effectiveness of the battle companies under a player’s command.
Based on the above, we know that a unit may have no more than four promotions. See the appendix at the end of this work for the full listing of unit promotions and their effects.
There are a great many other factors that will influence these numbers. This document will outline all factors that are important in deciding the outcome of combat in Candle’Bre.
Troop Type Advantages:
The following are changes/additions to the unit types as already defined in the game.
Infantry have no particular advantages, save for the fact that they are relatively inexpensive (note that as infantry variants are added, they may well bring with them unique advantages—pikemen will, for example, gain a bonus against cavalry units).
Archers – note that the first strike of an archer’s attack in any given round treats enemy armor as zero (0) modified 2.08.08 (Vel) This is game breaking. I'm changing this to say that the first shot Archers get treats enemy armor values at -2 places lower than it actually is. As archers get two strikes per round, then can have a debilitating effect on enemy morale, though not as dramatic as cavalry.
Cavalry – note the bonus that cavalry get when attacking non-cavalry unit (unit must automatically make a morale check, and suffers an additional hit to morale).
Unit-Oriented Variables
From the above, and from earlier iterations of these discussions, we can arrive at the following unit-oriented variables:
HP: 6 (individual soldier, 600 for a full company)
Type (Unit Type): Either Infantry, Archer, or Cavalry
Cost: (defined in earlier iterations)
Maintenance: (defined in earlier iterations)
Str: (Unit Strength): A measure of the total number of HP of the unit. A full strength, full health company of soldiers will have a unit Str of 600 (100men * 6hp).
DaP: (Damage Potential): Defined by weapon type
DeP: (Defensive Potential): Defined by armor configuration
MP: (Movement Point): Non-cavalry units get 1 MP per turn, Cavalry units get 2 (unless otherwise specified)
Mor: (Morale): Defined by the “level” of a company of soldiers.
Condition: (Condition): Either Ready, Disrupted, or Routed
XP: (Experience Points): Defined by the total number of wins/losses the unit has lived through
Level: (Level): Defined as specific break points for XP
Psa: (Promotion Slot a): Granted at gaining “Green” level
Psb: (Promotion Slot b): Granted at gaining “Regular” level
Psc: (Promotion Slot c): Granted at gaining “Veteran” level
Psd: (Promotion Slot d): Granted at gaining “Elite” level
Last edited by Velociryx on 08-02-2008 at 14:21
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Moderator
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Apr 1999 time: 19:09
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Combined Arms
The subject of combined arms is a vitally important one in terms of battle. Everyone knows it…few games make any real effort to model its effects. It is my hope that this will be seen as a big step in the right direction!
Note that combined arms does not necessarily mean “combining different troop types.” Essentially it means that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts, and in some cases, combined arms units might be combining all the same types of arms to greater than normal effect!
While the company is the building block of armies, in order to consider Combined Arms, and its possible impacts on the outcome of battle, we must look at groupings of companies. Thus, we will say that the powers and benefits of Combined Arms lives in the Regimental Level.
As previously discussed, a Regiment is made up of six (6) companies of soldiers, but not all Regiments are created equally. The precise makeup and composition of those six companies will determine a great deal about the fate of the Regiment in question.
Now, in order to fully explore the potential of Regimental Combined Arms, we’ll need an army management screen that is broken out by Regiment, with six “boxes” for each regiment, allowing for units to be clicked, or dragged and dropped into each regiment so that the player is able to control and manipulate the exact composition of each regiment he commands.
The boxes should be arranged thusly on the screen:
A ...B......C...D
...E............F
This then, is what a regiment “looks like.” Any collection of six companies can and will constitute a regiment, but the following combinations of units will unlock certain advantages:
Regimental configurations
All Infantry (all slots occupied by infantry) – This configuration creates a Rolling Line Regiment, capable of maintaining a fighting front filled with fresh troops for far longer than other types or configurations of units.
Benefits – All Infantry companies in the Rolling Line Regiment gain:
· +10% to Morale
· +20% when attacking
· When defending, Fortification and Terrain bonuses are doubled (see below)
· One “free pass” on a failed Morale Check (the first time that each company in this Regiment fails its Morale, treat that failure as a success)
All Cavalry (all slots occupied by cavalry) – This configuration creates a Horde Regiment, capable of fast movement, fast response, and devastating strikes against enemy formations.
Benefits – All Cavalry companies in a Horde Regiment gain:
· +5% to Morale
· The first attack (and ONLY the first attack) that each company in the Regiment makes in each battle (not battle round) is made with a +4 bonus to damage potential
Infantry in slots (A,B,C,D), Archers in slots (E,F) creates a Balanced Regiment.
Benefits of a Balanced Regiment:
· All units in the Regiment gain +5% to Morale
· Infantry gain a +20% bonus when attacking and when defending (light artillery support from the Archers)
· Archers gain +4 to their Defensive Values (as they have considerable protection from the Infantry in the fore ranks)
· On the first round of battle (and ONLY the first round of battle), both shots of the archer companies treat enemy armor as zero (0) changed on 2.08.08, simulations have indicated that such a power for Archer units renders them insanely powerful, so this has been changed, and should read: "being four places worse than it actually is (enemy armor value -4) - note that this is double the "normal" archer bonus, and applies specifically to this particular combined arms regimental configuration.
Cavalry in slots (A,D), Infantry in slots (B,C), Archers in slots (E,F) creates a Mixed Regiment
Benefits of a Mixed Regiment
· All units gain +15% Morale
· Infantry gain a +20% bonus when attacking and when defending (again, the light artillery support from the Archers)
· Archers gain +2 to their Defensive Values (less Infantry, so less protection from the enemy)
· Cavalry ignore all negative terrain modifiers and gain a +10% bonus, whether attacking or defending (good screening by allied infantry and archers)
Thus are the benefits of combined arms defined.
** Note! We can easily come up with additional configurations, both with these troop types, and as we add new ones (ex: When we introduce Pikemen, an all Pike unit could create a “Shield Wall Regiment” which would have certain bonuses, etc).
Summary
Combined Arms, and its various advantages “lives” at the Regimental Level.
At present, there are four types of combined arms bonuses allowed.
Rolling Line
Horde
Balanced
Mixed
Others may be added as our discussions explore further, and as other troop types are introduced.
Leadership
The effects of leadership in a battle are well known, but again, few games beyond the grognard variety seek to model leadership in any way that truly reflects their importance. Again, it is my hope that the following will be seen as an enormous step in the right direction.
In order to begin to quantify the sometimes dramatic effects that leaders can and have, historically, had on the outcomes of battles, we must first make a few assumptions and arbitrary assignments.
Stacking Limits
We’ll start here, and hearken back to the company as the building block of all armies. Now, in the absence of “significant leadership” (that is, no great leader present), the largest size unit that can be held together under a common banner is 18 companies (3 full Regiments, which would be enough to make a modest sized Brigade).
Anything beyond this is outside the capabilities of what we’ll refer to as “generic” leadership.
Thus…a new rule. The largest concentration of forces that any player may have, in the absence of exceptional leadership is 18. More forces than these may, of course, exist together in a province, but anything beyond 18 companies will have to be stacked separately. The generic leadership of the force does not allow for control of more than 18 companies at a time.
Changed on 2.08.08 @ Kinjy's excellent recommendation. An unlimited number of units may stack together, and may even fight together, but if a commander attempts to control some number of units in excess of his C&C rating, then those units will suffer combat penalties. For the moment, we'll say that any unit over and above a commander's C&C rating is treated as "Disrupted" for purposes of combat
We’ll refer to this as the Command and Control rating.
Generic Leadership has a C&C rating of 18. Exceptional Leadership will modify this value, allowing for the control of ever larger forces (note! Some Exceptional Leaders only really shine when in control of small numbers of men, so it is entirely possible to have an exceptional leader with a negative C&C rating!).
Leaders, like the collections of companies they command, come in all sorts of flavors, and like their troops, gain experience over time, thus, we’ll need to come up with a scheme to track the “leveling up” of leaders, just like we do companies. We’ll do that thusly:
Novice: 0-20XP
Apprentice: 21-40
Journeyman: 41-70
Expert: 71-110
Master: 111+
Unlike their troops, even a Novice leader may start with one or more attributes and abilities (some of which may be negative!), but like their rank and file counterparts, when they level up, they gain additional skills in the form of various promotions.
Like the companies they command, a Leader will gain 2XP for a loss, and 1XP for a win on the battlefield.
Other Impacts of Leadership:
In addition to changing the C&C equation and their abilities and promotions which can impact battlefield promotion, all leaders have some ability to maintain organization in the ranks, even during the heat of combat. Thus, all leaders, regardless of whatever their other traits (or shortcomings) have some number of “Rally Points” that are available each battle round. If a unit under their command is in a disrupted state (or routed, but not yet fled from the battlefield), then the leader may be able to restore those units to a ready state.
Attempts are automatic, and made at the start of each battle round, before any other action is undertaken by either side (for these purposes, leaders are assumed to have an initiative value of –10, making it unlikely in the extreme that any unit, spell, or other effect will “go before” a leader’s attempts to rally troops).
Rally attempts are made on a “first in, first out” order (the first unit that fails a morale check in the leader’s force is the first unit that a rally attempt is made on). Only one rally attempt may be made per battle round, per unit.
When a rally attempt is made, first, the unit in question sees its morale raised by (random(1-3) * leader level (novice = 1, apprentice = 2, journeyman = 3, expert = 4, master = 5)). Then, morale is checked against. If the check succeeds, the unit immediately returns to a ready state. If the check fails, then the unit maintains its current state, but keeps the boost in morale.
Nice as this ability is, it’s merely a perk. The real power of leaders are in their army-affecting promotions and abilities, and in their ability to radically expand C&C, enabling you, the player, to field increasingly large forces.
Loyalty and Agenda:
Leaders, for all their power, bring another random element into the mix, and this is expressed in terms of leader Loyalty.
Cowardly leaders, for example, may balk at being ordered to hold their ground against superior numbers. Honorable leaders might refuse an order to launch an attack against a beleaguered and starving force of dramatically inferior numbers or quality, and so forth, so while leaders are extremely powerful additions to your arsenal, they are not without risks and drawbacks of their own. The conditions under which certain leaders may require a loyalty check are outlined in the appendix detailing leader attributes, abilities, and promotions.
Keeping leaders loyal:
Arranged Marriages
Good leaders are hard to come by and whatever steps that need to be taken in order to ensure their loyalty should be taken. Thus, it may be possible for you to arrange a marriage with one of your available cousins, sisters, or nieces in order to keep a good general at your side. (note – this will require further additions to the engine, and will not be addressed immediately…this idea is presently included for discussion only, as it could dramatically alter the flavor of the game!)
Honorific Titles
Each player has a listing of Honorific titles that can be granted to great leaders. These titles will serve to enhance a leader’s loyalty to you and possibly have other impacts as well (see the appendix of honorific titles for a complete listing, including all effects).
Leader Summary
All leaders are defined by the following variables:
Name: (the name of the leader in question, pulled from a faction-specific text file of leader names)
Loyalty: (% chance that a leader will comply with an order you issue)
Marriage: (possible modifier, up for debate!)
Titles Granted: (listing of titles and their effects)
C&C Rating (the number of companies that a leader can effectively control)
Rally Points (the number of rally points available per battle round, to the leader)
Attributes (Positive): Leaders begin with 0-2 positive attributes
Attributes (Negative): Leaders begin with 0-2 negative attributes
Promotion a: available at apprentice level
Promotion b: available at journeyman level
Promotion c: available at expert level
Promotion d: available at master level
Supply
In the Candle’Bre universe, Supply has an indirect, but (potentially) quite debilitating effect of troops.
Supply, and its effects are expressed thusly:
Each province has a baseline supply number.
This number represents the number of companies that the province can support.
This number is doubled if you own the province.
The baseline number is used if you own the province but it recently changed hands (see existing rules governing new conquered penalties and durations).
The number is halved in the event of a harsh winter storm.
It is halved if you are in enemy territory.
added on 2.08.08 (Kinjy): All units must be able to trace an unbroken line of supply through either occupied or friendly (and unoccupied) territories, back to their homeland. If at any time they cannot, then the supply numbers for all provinces so affected are halved again. Note that this could devastate troops so cut off!)
If you have a number of companies greater than the modified supply value of the province in question, then each company over that value must make a survival check (20% per turn chance of suffering 3-30 losses).
Modified 2.08.08 (Vel): I'm changing this survival check thus: 20% - (2*troop level), per turn. Losses will remain the same (3-30). This makes veteran and elite troops less likely to succumb to the effects of bad supply situations, which is, IMO, as it should be...that's partly how they got to be vets in the first place... )
Note that troops with better initiative values (archers) get supplied first, while troops with worse initiative values (infantry) get supplied last. So all archers would get first dibs on supplies, then cavalry, and then, if there’s anything left, the infantry get a crack at it.
In terms of pecking order within these ranks, your troops with the most experience points get supplied first, then less experienced troops.
Note too that if you are invading a province, and the owner of said province attacks you, it is entirely possible that your supply for that turn will be zero (all your units may have to make survival checks), because the owner of the province will get supply priority, and each of his units in the province will be counted against the supply number you are checking against!
(note to self – need to come up with baseline numbers for all provinces!)
So far, we have merely covered the human element of warfare, but there are other factors to consider as well. What follows then, is a complete listing of the ALL the factors (human or otherwise) that can influence the outcome of a battle in the Candle’Bre universe:
· Fortification:
o Each turn that an Infantry or Archer unit remains in one place (no movements), that unit gains a cumulative 5% bonus, to a maximum value of 25%
§ 1 Turn = L1 Fortification (Def. Infantry and Archer units, +5%)
§ 2 Turns = L2 Fortification (Def. Infantry and Archer units, +10%)
§ 3 Turns = L3 Fortification (Def. Infantry and Archer units, +15%)
§ 4 Turns = L4 Fortification (Def. Infantry and Archer units, +20%)
§ 5 Turns = L5 Fortification (Def. Infantry and Archer units, +25%)
· Terrain Modifiers:
o Each province in Candle’Bre will be designated as being one of the following: Plains, Hill, Forest, or Mixed
§ Hills
· Defending Infantry in a Hill province gain a +25% modifier
· Defending Archers in a Hill province gain a +15% modifier
§ Forests
· Defending Infantry in a Forest province gain a +45% modifier
· Defending Archers in a Forest province gain a +65% modifier
· Defending Cavalry in a Forest province gain a –15% modifier
§ Plains
· ALL Cavalry operating in Plains provinces gain a +15% modifier (applies equally to the attacker and the defender’s cavalry units)
§ Mixed
· Defending Infantry in a Mixed province gain a +10% modifier
· Defending Archers in a Mixed province gain a +10% modifier
o Cross-River Attacks
§ ALL attacking units that execute an attack cross-river are subject to a –25% modifier
· Weather Modifiers: (this will require us to come up with a system of generating or determining weather conditions on a per-province basis throughout the realm each turn…whatever system is used should be cellular in nature…ie., we pick a starting point…say, Thunder Hill…determine the weather there, and allow the weather conditions there to modify the chances of similar weather conditions in adjacent provinces).
o Clear
§ No combat modifiers
o Windy
§ ALL Archers (-15%)
o Storming
§ ALL Units (-15%)
o Winter
§ ALL Units (-20%)
· Disruption
o Disrupted units attack with a –25% penalty
o Disrupted units defend with a –25% penalty
o Any time a disrupted unit is hit (regardless of damage), it must make a morale check. If the unit fails its morale check, it routes.
· Route
o Routed units may not attack
o If a Routed unit IS attacked, half the casualties are considered kills, and half are considered captures
o Routed units defend with a –50% penalty
o Any time a routed unit is hit (regardless of damage), it must make a morale check. If it fails that check, then it must immediately flee the battlefield to the nearest friendly, adjacent province. If there are no valid provinces to flee to, then the unit is removed from play and considered to be captured.
· Multiple hits in a given battle round.
o Each time a company is attacked in a given round, that unit receives a token, demarking the fact that it has been attacked this round. If that unit is attacked again in the same battle round, then the attacking unit receives a bonus equal to (+15% * the number of tokens on the unit). This is to reflect the increased fatigue of units having to fend off multiple attacks in the same battle round. All such tokens are removed from all units on both sides at the conclusion of any battle round. This is in addition to the debilitating morale impacts of multiple attacks per round (covered in the section on morale and outlined again, below added: Additionally, each attack beyond the first reduces the defender's armor value by -1, to a minimum of zero - thus, successive attacks on the same company will do increasing amounts of damage TO that company...armor values reset between battle rounds)
o In a battle round, the first time a unit is attacked, that unit suffers a -3% reduction in morale.
· Leadership
o The presence of a great leader on the field of battle can have a tremendous impact on the fighting ability of the troops that leader commands. Leadership bonuses are covered in the section on Leaders.
· Troop promotions and skills
o All troops are not created equally, and as troops survive battles, they gain experience that can manifest itself in many ways. These are expressed in game terms as promotions, and promotions can allow you to tailor your battle force to specific situations. The exact bonuses and their effects are covered in the section on Troop Promotions.
· Combined Arms
o As has been discussed, combined arms can have a dramatic impact on the performance of troops, at the Regimental level.
Last edited by Velociryx on 08-02-2008 at 14:20
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Apr 1999 time: 19:09
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Other Notes – recovering unit strengths
Combining Companies – Two weakened companies may be combined, provided that their combined strength is not greater than 100 (or the maximum allowable size of the company if more than 100). If companies are combined, they will only retain the promotions of the most numerous unit (if we allow combining companies at all). Promotions may be lost, as the experience total of the unit is averaged.
Prisoner Exchanges – Captured soldiers lose all their skills, BUT, they may be “injected” into weakened companies without damaging experience or mucking about with promotions, making them extremely valuable.
Damaged units that do not move will “heal” 60hp per game turn as a baseline.
Modification to Barracks
If this model is adopted, then the following modification is recommended for Barracks.
When a Barracks is constructed in a province, it still increases the number of units that can be trained at a time in a province.
It also provides 10XP to all newly trained troops (they’re still levies, but their first battle, win or lose, will turn them into Greenies).
Additionally, a Barracks allows up to one leader AND one unit to be “sacrificed” (ie., permanently removed from play) to it, in order to permanently increase its effectiveness, thusly:
Merge a Veteran unit with the Barracks (all troops trained here gain +20 XP)
Merge an Elite unit with the Barracks (all troops trained here gain +20 XP)
Merge an Expert Leader with a Barracks (all troops trained here gain +30 XP)
Merge a Master Leader with a Barracks (all troops trained here gain +30 XP)
Merge a Veteran Unit and an Expert Leader with a Barracks (all troops trained here gain +50 XP)
Merge a Veteran Unit and a Master Leader with a Barracks (all troops trained here gain +50 XP)
Merge an Elite unit and an Expert Leader with a Barracks (all troops trained here gain +70 XP)
Merge an Elite unit and a Master Leader with a Barracks (all troops trained here gain +70 XP)
This, to reflect the increasingly improving instruction at these institutions.
Appendix A – Unit Promotions
(note that this is a place of beginning only…I am hoping the ideas here spark conversations that give us MANY more options than these!)
Infantry Promotions
Military Tradition I: +10% on all attack and defense determinations
Military Tradition II: +10% on all attack and defense determinations
Military Tradition III: +15% on all attack and defense determinations, and gain 1 “free pass” per battle on a failed morale check
Discipline I: +10% morale
Discipline II: +10% morale
Zealotry (Discipline III): Unit is exempted from making morale checks
Level 2 promotions:
Medic 1: regiment heals an additional 20hp/turn
Medic 2: regiment heals an additional 40hp/turn
Medic 3: regiment heals an additional 80hp/turn
Ranger 1: Halves negative weather and terrain modifiers
Ranger 2: Eliminates negative weather and terrain modifiers
Ranger 3: Eliminates negative weather and terrain modifiers for entire regiment. +1MP (unit only)
Level 3 promotions:
Engineer 1: Whole Regiment gets immediate level 5 fortification, each turn
Engineer 2: Double the effectiveness of fortifications (whole regiment)
Sapper 1: eliminate fortifications for any unit that the sapper attacks. Counts as a siege engine
Sapper 2: negates all terrain bonuses for any unit it fights against. +1 on all siege rolls
Archer Promotions:
Marksmen I: +10% on all attack and defense determinations
Marksmen II: +10% on all attack and defense determinations
Marksmen III: +15% on all attack and defense determinations. Second shot is always made as though the enemy’s armor value was –2 places lower than it actually is.
Prepared Positions I: fortification values count double for this unit
Prepared Positions II: terrain values count double for this unit
Prepared Positions III: unit gains +1 to its defensive value for each level of fortification it has
Level 2 promotions:
Quick Shot I: Unit gains an extra shot at the first round of any battle
Quick Shot II: Unit gains an extra shot EACH battle round, but the third shot is treated as though the target unit’s defensive value was +2 greater than it actually is.
Quick Shot III: Unit gains an extra (third) shot, each battle round, at no penalty.
Ranger 1: Halves negative weather and terrain modifiers
Ranger 2: Eliminates negative weather and terrain modifiers
Ranger 3: Eliminates negative weather and terrain modifiers for entire regiment. +1MP (unit only)
Level 3 Promotions
Forage I: Unit does not count toward supply limit
Forage II: Whole regiment does not count toward supply limit
Light Artillery Support I: Whole regiment gains +10% morale
Light Artillery Support II: Whole regiment gains +10% morale
Cavalry Promotions
Military Tradition I: +10% on all attack and defense determinations
Military Tradition II: +10% on all attack and defense determinations
Military Tradition III: +15% on all attack and defense determinations, and gain 1 “free pass” per battle on a failed morale check
Discipline I: +10% morale
Discipline II: +10% morale
Zealotry (Discipline III): Unit is exempted from making morale checks
Level 2 promotions:
Ranger 1: Halves negative weather and terrain modifiers
Ranger 2: Eliminates negative weather and terrain modifiers
Ranger 3: Eliminates negative weather and terrain modifiers for entire regiment. +1MP (unit only)
Screening I: +5% morale (whole regiment)
Screening II: +10% morale (whole regiment)
Screening III: +10% morale and double the effect of combined arms bonuses (whole regiment)
Level 3 promotions
Exquisite Horsemanship I: -2 on unit initiative value
Exquisite Horsemanship II: -2 on unit initiative value, -1 initiative for the rest of the regiment (better scouting and information)
Fearsome Presence I: any time this unit strikes a non-cavalry unit, it reduces the morale of that unit by an additional –4%.
Fearsome Presence II: cavalry units attacked by this unit are treated as non-cavalry units. Any unit failing a morale check against this unit will route immediately and flee to the nearest friendly adjacent province. If unable to flee, the unit is captured outright.
Appendix B – Leader Positive and Negative Traits
Leader Loyalty will be some random number from 40-90% (loyalty can go above 100%)
Leaders will either be identified as Honorable or Dishonorable (same honor/infamy scale that the player resides on), and will be given some random number of honor/infamy points. Each “step” difference there is between the leader and the player will lead to a –5% loyalty reduction.
Marriage will boost the loyalty of a leader by a permanent value between 5-20%
C&C Value: The default C&C value of leaders is 30. It may be modified by traits or abilities. addition: 2.08.08, C&C for leaders is 30 + 2 per XP that the leader has. Note that small unit commanders still can't exceed a C&C rating of 18!
Rally Points: The number of rally points a leader gets is C&C value/6 (drop all fractions).
At game start, leaders will have from 0-2 positive traits, randomly generated from the list below (note that some traits, if randomly selected, preclude the random selection of others as companion traits…the system will have to take this into account as it is randomly selecting traits). Note too that if a trait is randomly selected a second time, then the “level two” version of the trait will be chosen!
Positive Traits (these traits are chosen as bonuses when leaders level up, keeping in mind that selecting certain traits will make it impossible to select certain other traits).
Organized (this leader will never be disorganized)
Organized I: The organized leader will make better use of what men and supplies he has. Units under this leader will fortify two levels per turn spent not moving (still to the maximum of fortification level five). +30 C&C. Organized leaders hate being rushed, and will check loyalty any time they are ordered to execute a forced march.
Organized II: All combined arms bonuses are doubled under this leader. +30 to C&C. Organized leaders hate being rushed, and will check loyalty any time they are ordered to execute a forced march.
Small Unit Commander (this leader will never be a large unit commander)
Small Unit Commander I: These leaders are notoriously good with smaller forces. This commander sees all units under his command gain +25% to their attack and defense numbers, but C&C is reduced by –18, and cannot exceed 18.
added 2.08.08, Note that the experience mechanism will see to it that all small unit commanders eventually arrive at a C&C of 18, they'll still not be able to exceed that value, thus keeping them small unit commanders!
Small Unit Commander II: All units under the command of this leader gain +25%. Max C&C is still 18.
Small Unit Commander III: All units under the command of this leader gain +50%. Max C&C is still 18, regardless of what other traits are selected.
Large unit commander (incompatible with Small unit commander)
Large Unit Commander I: C&C +60. Leader’s loyalty will drop by –1% for every unused C&C slot in his command structure (if his loyalty is 80%, and he’s got a C&C of 70, but you only have him in command of 50 companies, his loyalty will only be 60%).
Leader will require a loyalty check any time he’s ordered to move (he will defend normally and without question), if he controls fewer men than he is capable of commanding.
Large Unit Commander II: C&C +90. Loyalty drops –1% for every 2 unused C&C slots (drop all fractions). Loyalty check as above.
Large Unit Commander III: C&C +120. Loyalty drops –1% for every 3 unused C&C slots (drop all fractions). Loyalty check as above.
Large Unit Commander IV: C&C = 480. Loyalty drops –1% for every 6 unused C&C slots (drop all fractions). Loyalty check as above.
Popular with the men I: All troops serving under this leader gain +10% morale. Leader gains +3 Rally Points. Loyalty check required any time the force has more than 25% of its units damaged units and is ordered to attack or defend. C&C = +12 (unless the leader is also a small unit commander)
Popular with the men II: All troops serving under this leader gain +10% morale. Leader gains +3 Rally Points. Loyalty check required any time the force has more than 50% of its units damaged units and is ordered to attack or defend. C&C = +18 (unless the leader is also a small unit commander)
Popular with the men III: All troops serving under this leader gain +15% morale. Leader gains +3 Rally Points. Loyalty check required any time the force has more than 50% of its units damaged units and is ordered to attack or defend. C&C = +24 (unless the leader is also a small unit commander)
Strict Disciplinarian I: Forced Marches executed by the force under this leader’s command only cost half the normal morale hit (-10%). C&C = +18 (unless the leader is also a small unit commander)
Strict Disciplinarian II: Forced Marches executed by the force under this leader’s command are 50% likely (check for each company) to require no morale hit whatsoever. If fortifications are hastily built, these only require a –10% morale hit per fortification level desired. Leader gains +3 Rally Points. C&C = + 24 (unless the leader is also a small unit commander)
Independently Wealthy I: Units under this leader’s command see their upkeep costs halved.
Independently Wealthy II: Units under this leader’s command see their upkeep costs reduced to zero. The leader pays for his own troops.
Aggressive (cautious and cowardly leaders will never be aggressive)
Aggressive I: Units under this leader’s command all gain +10% to any attacks they make.
Aggressive II: Units under this leader’s command all gain +15% to any attacks they make.
Aggressive III: Max duration of battles is increased by +1 battle round.
Aggressive IV: Max duration of battles is increased by +1 battle round.
Battle Mage I: (acts as a Focusing Sigil…generates mana) Leader generates +5 Mana per turn. C&C +12
Influential with the Church: Leader generates + 5 Influence per turn. C&C +12
Stubborn Defender I: Normally, a battle lasts for no more than six rounds. This leader will defend for +1 round (when defending only)
Stubborn Defender II: Increases the duration of battles by +1 round (when defending only)
Stubborn Defender III (The Rock): Leader WILL NOT retreat from battle. Units under his control may become disrupted, but none will ever route (when defending only)
Negative Traits
Honor before Duty (never brutal)
Always honorable leaders, they will require a loyalty check any time they are asked pillage a province or attack a numerically inferior force. A failure means that they will refuse the order to attack.
Brutal (brutes are never cowards) (never honorable)
Brutal leaders are always infamous. Any enemy force fighting against a force led by a brutal leader gets –5% malus, but the brutal leader’s troops suffer a –15% morale penalty. Brutal leaders are 40% likely to pillage a newly conquered province, even if you do not order it.
Sickly
Sickly leaders do not inspire confidence in their men. All troops suffer a –10% morale hit
Hard Drinker
Troops under the command of this leader suffer a –5% morale hit. Leader is only 50% likely to abide by an order to execute a forced march, and is only 25% likely to abide by an order to hastily construct fortifications. IF he executes either, he’ll make life miserable on his men, and the penalties associated with those actions will increase by +50%.
Reckless
Units serving under a reckless leader suffer a –10% penalty to all attack/defense determinations
Cowardly (this leader will never be aggressive, nor brutish)
Cowardly leaders don’t like to fight, and will attempt to shorten the duration of any battle they’re involved in (by –1 battle round).
Cautious (this leader will never be aggressive)
Units serving under cautious leaders gain +5% morale, but such leaders will NEVER abide by order to execute forced marches, or hastily build fortifications, nor do anything that will harm the morale of the men.
Disorganized (this leader will never be organized)
Disorganized leaders pay a 50% upkeep premium on troops under their command.
Incompetent: Units serving under incompetent leaders suffer a (random) 5d4% penalty (5-20%) whether attacking or defending, due to this leaders colossal lack of understanding of command.
Honorific Titles
not yet fleshed out…the idea is that at game start, each faction has 3-4 honorific titles they can assign to certain generals…these titles will confer certain abilities (increase C&C or rally points usually), and see a boost in the loyalty of the general.
As the game rolls on, new titles might be spawned by research, certain buildings, wonders, in-game events, etc.
Just…wanted to kick it around. I don’t have anything specific in my mind on it yet.
So….having done a brain dump to the thread…anybody wanna kick it around?
Last edited by Velociryx on 08-02-2008 at 12:47
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Moderator
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Apr 1999 time: 19:09
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Two additional elements to add/consider:
The army management window should have a total of four drop down boxes where certain strategic decisions can be made.
Two for "if we are attacked" and two for "if we launch an attack"
If we are attacked, we need to decide how ardently we mean to defend this province (number of battle rounds between 1 and 6...we'll either plan to offer token resistance and then withdraw, step up the resistance, or hold until relieved....the default will be 6 (hold until relieved...the full six turns of battle, should an enemy attack).
The second question for "if we are attacked" will revolve around strategy selection (what strategy will we employ?) - this hearkens back to my earlier "canned strategies" work....attack, overrun, hold, envelope, flank, and fighting withdrawal.
Same two questions on the other side of the management window for "when we attack"
Do we want to skirmish? (a brief attack lasting only 1-2 battle rounds) demonstrate (a longer duration attack lasting 3-4 battle rounds), or are we in for the whole enchalada (5, or perhaps the full 6 rounds)?
Thus, a force commander can not only tailor his force, but also to some degree set the duration of the battle
(if two forces have different ideas about the duration of the battle, then the force commander with the highest C&C rating wins...if equal, then the army with the most troops wins...if equal, then the attacker wins by default and his durational values are used).
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King
Nashville, TN
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Mar 1999 time: 13:09
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quote: Originally posted by Velociryx
For the moment, there are only three weapons to consider:
Spear (an infantry weapon)
Bow (an archer weapon)
Lance (a cavalry weapon)
Each of these weapons is assigned a damage number. These damage numbers are:
Spear (8)
Bow (5) (2 shots per battle round)
Lance (16)
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Hmm.. haven't absorbed the math yet, but I am wondering about the cav. While lances were nice in jousting contests, they weren't really the weapon of choice for mounted infantry. After all, in battle they are one-shot weapons. And really really inaccurate ones at that.
Quite apart from the weapon choice, having cav be twice as powerful as infantry seems a bit much. Perhaps (12) would be a better value?
Offense vs defense...
quote:
So based on the above, the attacking infantry strikes. His damage potential is 800hp. The defender is armored with leather and a shield, giving him a defensive potential of 300hp, thus, the attacker inflicts 500hp/6 (for the damage in a single combat round), or 83hp of damage. The attacker kills 13 men in the defending company.
The defender now counters…since he is also an infantry company (and of the same initiative tier), his losses are not recorded until AFTER he gets his counterattack. Like the unit that attacked him, the defender is spear armed (damage potential of 8), and the unit he’s attacking is armored with leather and a shield (defensive potential of 3), so his damage will wind up being exactly the same. 13 men killed from the aggressor’s company.
This basic mechanic will repeat itself over each unit involved in a given battle.
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So you are favoring the attacker in a battle then. While the Builder in me cringes, I know that this is better for gameplay, as otherwise, the game ends up being a long slog that gets boring and the end game takes way too long.
On Experience Points...
quote:
So in summary: To the winners go the spoils, and +1 XP for each surviving company on the winning side.
We learn from our mistakes, so the surviving companies on the losing side of a battle get +2 XP.
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Very interesting indeed. Has this ever been done in a game before? I don't think I have seen it.
Anyway, the only potential difficulty I see is if the losing force becomes a sitting duck for repeat attack by the earlier winner. I actually like an aspect of CIV here the best - applying a promotion gives an hp boost so the combination of a now more experienced unit, with at least some extra hp, stands a chance of living beyond one additional turn to actually apply their experience!
On Morale...
quote:
Each round of battle, the first time a unit sustains damage in battle, that unit’s morale drops by 1%. If that unit is hit a second time during the same battle round, that unit’s morale will drop by 2%. If the unit is hit a third time in the same battle round, that unit’s morale will drop by 4%. (6% for the 4th hit in a battle round, 6% for the 5th, and so on). Note that if a morale check is called for—see below—the reduction in morale (if there is one) is not taken until AFTER the morale check is performed!
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My head is starting to hurt...
I see where you are going with this, but it seems a bit complicated. Computers are great at burning through iterations of calculations, but humans are not so good at optimizing the code to make this happen. As such, this *might* be a feature you need to sacrifice in trade for better performance. Do you feel that the model as a whole could be adjusted to leave out this aspect? You do still have the promotions, so there is something to apply xp towards.
On Regimental configurations...
I like this idea a great deal. Both in terms of how you have laid out specific configs and bonuses, and in terms of modability.
On Stacking Limits...
I am going to suggest a slightly different mechanic for your consideration. And this come from Armageddon Empires (one of my two new obsessions). From what I have seen, the more casual players use stacking, not as a means to achieve greater success in battle, but simply as a convenience in not having to move so many smaller units. Let's not take that away.
Rather than preventing a stack of larger than 18 without a C&C Rating, why allow whatever size stack, but anything over 18 suffers a penalty to both attack and defense. This penalty to should increase linearly with additional units added.
In this way, large stacks can be made to move the pieces around, but a smart player will unstack them just before battle. Perhaps, on easy mode, there is even a UI popup asking if the player would like to unbundle the stack to avoid the penalty?
On Keeping leaders loyal via marriage...
While I very much like this part, I fear it may be layering on just a bit too much. My suggestion would be to leave this part alone until you are very happy with the DAMn model, the improvements, and other aspects. I.e. wait until you tackle Diplomacy in general to take up this element.
On Supply lines...
Here is a thought, though I hesitate to offer it since it adds more complexity.
Let's say we have 6 provinces arranged such:
A -> B -> C -> D
------- F <- E
So A has direct access to B.
B has direct access to C and F (and A).
C has direct access to B, D, E and F.
D has direct access to C and E.
E has direct access to C, D and F.
F has direct access to B, C and E.
I own province A, Vel owns province D. B, C, E and F are unowned. I want to attack Vel. In province B, my troops have no ill effects. In province C, my troops have no ill effects. If I were to invade province D, my troops would encounter the need for all the checks Vel describes.
Now, when I begin to build up my troops, Vel moves some troops from D to E. When I move into B, Vel moves from from E to F. When I move from B to C, Vel moves from F to B.
Now my troops are not in enemy territory, but they are cut off from their supplied province (A). In this case, shouldn't they act much the same as if they were in enemy territory, or even better, much worse?
On Prisoner exchanges...
How about an event that provides intel on the opposing forces and their provinces. After all, we know from Hogan's Heroes just how much intel POWs can gather! 
That's all I got for now. I'll think some more though...
Last edited by Kinjiru on 08-02-2008 at 00:02
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Moderator
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Apr 1999 time: 19:09
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Yes yes! I know it was a lot to read, but since we've been having these discussions over the last couple days, I definitely wanted to put it "out there."
LOVE the idea about allowing stacks of unlimited size, but applying combat penalties beyond set thresholds.
Keeps the convenience, and doesn't feel contrived (which was an admitted weakness of the method I originally proposed). GREAT stuff!
re: Cavalry...a good point....2x str. is likely too strong...I'll rethink that and see about ratcheting them downward.
Offense vs. Defense: I tried to strike a balance here....the actual combat mechanic (before applying modifiers--fortification, terrain, etc--does (or should?) favor the attacker, but the defender is not without his advantages too...chiefly, it's this....if an attacking force invades a province and begins to lay siege, he's essentially a "sitting duck" for the duration of the siege (and depending on the fortification level of the province, that could be quite some time), so...since the maths favor the attacker, this can be made to work for the defender, as you "attack" to rid the enemy of your homeland.
Or at least that was my intent... 
Regarding the XP thing...no...I don't think I've ever seen it done in any other game, and it serves a couple of useful purposes. The victor of said combat is already getting a largish boon (that being, whatever the objective of the attack was), so this is a light handed means of keeping the game at a point of uncertainty for slightly longer--yes, the loser is losing, but he's all but guaranteed to go down fighting, which could lead to some intriguing reversals of fortune. It remains to be seen if it'll actually have the kinds of effects I'm hoping it will, but I'm looking forward to finding out!
And combined arms...ahhhh, that one was the hardest part. There's MUCH more that can be done here, and the few examples I laid out were just brain food to get the community started....I'm really looking forward to seeing what comes of that, as I think it's a good overall methodology that captures the essence of combined arms, but does so in a way that I"ve not seen tried yet. So my goals there were twofold...one, I wanted to present a potent "version" of the notion of combined arms, and two, I wanted to do something that hadn't been seen before....as to how well it works....no idea yet, but my sense of it is that it'll lead to some interesting military decision making! (fingers crossed!)
The morale thing - you are right...when I went back and re-read that just now, it sounded horrible in my ear. Perhaps a straight line morale hit would be more the order of the day...I'll go back to that section and re-think...see if I can come up with something simpler.
Supply lines....I'm not sure I see the picture, but this could be because I"ve not slept in 30 hours. I'm gonna get some shut eye and re-read your notes there, and see what that gets me! 
Prisoner-oriented events
And yeah....don't pay much mind to the whole notion of marrying your family members off to the generals...it's neat, but in all honesty, we're nowhere CLOSE to really even thinking about that. It would involve the creation of a whole HOST of new game aspects, so uintil we get the other stuff nailed down, I have to agree...much as my brain loves the idea, it's something that's gonna have to wait (and WHEN we get there...when we do it, I'll want to do it in a way that hasn't been seen before, which will mean even more sub-system development....so yep...let's table that one for later!)
GREAT feedback so far, and I"m looking forward to more!
-=Vel=-
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King
Nashville, TN
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Mar 1999 time: 13:09
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All I was trying to say with the supply lines is that if you get yourself surrounded (province-wise) then your troops should incur the same penalties as if they were in enemy territory, even if they aren't.
Stated another way, if you are getting attacked, you can try to regain advantage by using some portion of your troop strength to flank the invaders.
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Moderator
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Apr 1999 time: 19:09
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