The Bloody Monk HOF Celebration Succession Game!!!

[-Jrabbit]

After several years of slogging, the Civ II community has finally succeeded in getting Bloody Monk into the Poly HOF. Overdue and well deserved, IMHO. In tribute and celebration, at rmatsleeprs' suggestion and with the Monk's encouragement, we are organizing this, the Bloody Monk HOF Celebration Succession Game.

This will be MGE. Monk will set the rules and parameters, generate the map and, if fortune smiles, play a few turns himself.

Those interested and still in possession of MGE, enter and sign in please...

1. BLOODY MONK
2. rjmatsleepers
3. -Jrabbit
4. DaveV
5. Straybow
6. SlowThinker
7. Elephant
8. defrancoj
9. Sharkbait
10. Verrucosus
11. solo
12. Andemagne
13. atomant
14. StuporMan

ORDER OF PLAY
Player Name / Turns, Years
1) Bloody Monk / 20 turns, 4000 - 3050 BC
2) rjmat sleepers / 20 turns, 3050 - 2100 BC
3) DaveV / 20 turns, 2100 - 1150 BC
4) SlowThinker / 6 turns, 1150 - 900 BC
5) defrancoj / 10 turns, 875 - 650 BC
6) Sharkbait / 10 turns, 625 - 400 BC
7) rjmatsleepers / 10 turns, 400 BC – 175 BC
8) Verrocusos / 10 turns, 150 BC – 60 AD
9) defrancoj / 10 turns, 80 AD – 260 AD
10) solo / 10 turns, 280 AD – 460 AD
11) Andemagne / 10 turns, 480 AD - 660 AD
12) atomant / 9 turns, 680 AD - 860 AD
13) Sharkbait / 10 turns, 860 - 1040 AD
14) rjmatsleepers / 10 turns, 1060 - 1240 AD
15) Verrucosus / 10 turns, 1260 - 1440 AD
16) StuporMan / 1460 - 1520 AD >> LAUNCH!!!
Then -->> 1535 AD ALPHA CENTAURI!!

Civ II dinosaurs -- unite and JOIN US!
One More Turn!!!!

[StuporMan]

Alas, for I must weep. I have not now the time for a SG. I am overjoyed at Monk's entry into the HOF. I will definitely keep track of your progress.

[solo]

About time and a hearty congrats to Monk for getting into the HOF!

I would also love to join in, but I am away from home and my Civ II game, helping my brother build a house.

Perhaps when I get back home...

In the meantime, i can check on the progress of the game.

[-Jrabbit]

Solo sighting!!!

[Bloody Monk]

Thanks, _jr. The special font is a nice touch.

I think we must ask ourselves a few questions.

--Is there enough interest in this trip down memory lane?? If there isn't a full slate of players (8-10), do we agree to commit to finishing; and how should we handle player rotation, a set order or some other scheme?? (Everyone please keep in mind that my ability to play regularly can not be more than a hope. )

--Are you sure you want me to set the rules, etc?? I'll post my ideas but would prefer suggestions. This may well be the "Last" Succession Game so all players ought to have a say. I have a map that should provide a challenge. My preference is for a spaceship game with "peace" limits on ourselves for a long enough time for the AI to develop (ie, a1500).

--Can we agree that the goal for this endeavor should be to have fun in the spirit of remembrance of days gone by?? That means that the Sticky Mouse Institute will need reopening (if someone remembers where the keys were left)... for example. hehehe

--The map I generated is Medium size, Deity, Raging Hordes with seven civs and restarts are allowed; there will be islands so sea based trade will be the emphasis.

Suggested Rules of Engagement

I'd like to keep it simple....

Objective: Win by AC Landing

-A "Free For All" situation (anyone but last player), with posted "call the ball" and 24-48hr completion requirement (per Elephant)
-No to reloading, map peeking
-No rehoming of vans/freight (thnx Elephant)
-No city bribing (except Barb cities)
-Maintain a Spotless Reputation until SS Launch, no ethnic cleansing (killing AI cities) until after 1500a or Launch. Obviously, killing attackers is okay.

Discuss. If this meets with general approval I'll attach the map and we can get started.

Monk

[rjmatsleepers]

All of the above sounds good to me. In the most recent games we didn't stick to a strict order. Anyone other than the previous player could step in. (Or was there a rule that the one before that had to wait a certain length of time.) Anyway, the main point is to be flexible if things bog down a bit.

RJM

[Straybow]

I'm in!

[Bloody Monk]

Happy Birthday _Jrabbit

Hope you enjoy a great year!!

Monk

[SlowThinker]

I can't participate regularly, but I will add some turns if Bloody Monk allows...

[Elephant]

I've been away due to complications in my wife's pregnancy, but I shall try to contribute. A "Free For All" situation (anyone but last and next-to-last player), with posted "call the ball" and 24-48hr completion requirements might suffice. Keep the number of turns per round short in the midgame and encourage creative log reports. Suggest we also formally ban caravan/freight rehoming.

[Bloody Monk]

SlowThinker, Elephant, and any one else...
Please participate as much as possible.

There was almost no discussion so I adopted suggestions from Elephant and edited them into the ruleset in Post 5.

I hope everyone will pm oldtimers and invite them to take a turn or play often. With activity like it has become, this may well be our last game. So, let's play like madmen and have a grand time!!

This is MGE, so Mac contingent can play. We play as the Spanish and start with no advances. Our pair of 'walking cities' stand right beside a hut on a hill.

This brings us the first decision. Pop the hut now hoping for a 4-footer to explore or keep it in hand until the first two settlers are made cities. There is a high probability that, at that point, the hut will yield another Settler, giving us three quick cities and a leg up on getting to Monarchy. So, first player gets to decide (and defend the decision): it's a roll of the dice either way, a NON explorer or a quick third city.
^^^This is probably a faulty memory moment. I'll be in the Institute for a while.^^^^

Who wants to be first?? 20 turns per player for the first few rounds.

Here is the map....

Monk

[Verrucosus]

Ah, 4000 BC! The most important year in history, full of wonder and hope (to a Civ-Player anyway).

Personally, I would never be able to resist the temptation of that hut. I would argue that a horseman unit - if you are lucky enough to get it - this early might well be about to explore the next village before we even get to found the first two cities, but it would only be cover for my urge to see what's in that village.

I hope that the river in the northeast will give you easy access to some good sites. You cannot see the minimap on the screenshot below, but this time the cradle of Spain is pretty far up north (77, 15).

Two questions (please tell me to shut up if this is inappropriate):
- Regarding hut outcomes: Is samson's study (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=69873) applicable to MGE? If so, it seems to say that there is no chance of getting another settler as long as our existing ones haven't settled down, but not that there's a high probability after they do. Is there a rule that I overlooked?
- What's the "Sticky Mouse Institute"?

Anyway, it's great there's once more a Civ2 game to watch here. Good luck!

[Bloody Monk]

Originally posted by Verrucosus
Ah, 4000 BC! The most important year in history, full of wonder and hope (to a Civ-Player anyway).

Personally, I would never be able to resist the temptation of that hut. I would argue that a horseman unit - if you are lucky enough to get it - this early might well be about to explore the next village before we even get to found the first two cities, but it would only be cover for my urge to see what's in that village.

I hope that the river in the northeast will give you easy access to some good sites. You cannot see the minimap on the screenshot below, but this time the cradle of Spain is pretty far up north (77, 15).

Two questions (please tell me to shut up if this is inappropriate):
- Regarding hut outcomes: Is samson's study (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=69873) applicable to MGE? If so, it seems to say that there is no chance of getting another settler as long as our existing ones haven't settled down, but not that there's a high probability after they do. Is there a rule that I overlooked?
- What's the "Sticky Mouse Institute"?

Anyway, it's great there's once more a Civ2 game to watch here. Good luck!

Hello Verrucosus,

You are probably right, or more to the point, I am probably misremembering. Happens so often now that it is now a default response. I think the probability is higher, but only if you drop the first two cities and pop the hut the same turn. But that would require popping the hut now AND exploring AND finding another non-grass/plains hut... way too much if, if, if. So I withdraw the suggestion. Take the hut and hope for a 'good' exploration unit.

I do remember this about huts. Before you get Monarchy, hut tipping should stop after getting a hut advance...so the path to Monarchy is not unduly slowed. Every offpath tech really delays research. And if anyone forgets that, especially after this reminder, they will be shipped off to the Sticky Mouse Institute for an intensive re-education program. Which answers your second query, at least in part.

Another thing about huts. If you open the map generator and study hut/special placement a very interesting reveal shows up. Specials occur around huts. Specifically, a trade special will be placed either two tiles above or below a hut. We can see there isn't one above so just off the open part of the map is a (probably) water special.

Why not play the first 20 turns and get us started??

Monk

[Verrucosus]

Originally posted by Bloody Monk
I think the probability is higher, but only if you drop the first two cities and pop the hut the same turn.

This could fit with samson's "continent rule" that says there's a 47% tribes probability when tipping a hut on a continent without cities. That rule would apply if the computer registered that the NON-settlers are gone, but failed (for hut purposes) to register the cities before the next turn.

Having brought too much work home this weekend, I am unable to play. Also, I must admit to be in awe at the care you and your colleagues have taken with both playing and reporting the turnsets during the previous succession game. That is, of course, what makes it so interesting to tune in, but it also makes it somewhat daunting to participate ... let alone make the first moves. However, I have a vacation coming up in December that would be long enough both to play a few turns and to be shipped off to the "Sticky Mouse Institute" afterwards.

Anyway, I am confident that someone will get the ball rolling very soon. I'll stay tuned.

Verrucosus

[Straybow]

Originally posted by Bloody Monk
Specifically, a trade special will be placed either two tiles above or below a hut. We can see there isn't one above so just off the open part of the map is a (probably) water special.

Not so, O HoF Great. Two tiles above is a grassland, which could indeed conceal a Hidden Special, begging to be mined into existance!

Hmmm, not enough to qualify for a trip to Sticky Mouse.

[Bloody Monk]

What our Errant Archer says is true, though no less equivocal than my statement, substituting 'could' conceal for my 'probably'. The subtext for both of us is the same I bet...we need more opening of the map to be sure which it will be. (And until more is known a delay in placing a city is not a bad thing.)

A minor argument can be made that my 'probably' should have come before the 'a'. To which I call for forgiveness.

How about you, Stray; want to start us off??

Monk

If nobody picks this up I'll start tomorrow.

[Bloody Monk]

I'll get us started. Be back later with the save and log. Hopefully, then someone else can play this weekend.

Monk

[Bloody Monk]

General Considerations

Such a beautiful feeling looking over the beginning save of a new game!!
-- This will be a trade-centric game so cities sited on the coast are a must. Boats, boats, and more boats.
-- Cities should be able to support a Settler for roads, etc, AND have a surplus to build another for new cities. So, if there is a choice, build on grass.
--There is no rush choosing a city site to be the SSC. Having the SSC 5th or lower (7-10) on the list will yield more multiple advance turns later and, since the SSC usually completes the advance, the earlier cities can still add their beakers as they are processed this turn. No waste.
--Rush to Monarchy, then Trade, then build Marco Polo. Tech trading and maps give the biggest boost early. This leaves more time for finding the best site for the SSC. Ideally, the SSC will be on the coast so it can support the later-day Navy with its Shakespeare Theater.


4000bc -

...I put on my robe and wizard hat...and begin.
My wizard tools tell me there is another hut close by. Will it be on hills or trees?? Could the Nomad Beginning Gambit (NBG) be in play?? That is very tempting.

Tip hut hoping for a Horse, and we are joined by a Chariot. So far so good. (Can't point to anything other than past experience but it seems to me Horses are more likely (than Chariot or Elephant) to take the second step onto "difficult" terrain (trees, jungle, etc). Chariot moves NE and climbs hill in one go, revealing a Wheat Special. Second Sett moves N into river system.

3950bc -

Chariot reveals a second hut, and it is in trees!! Now to set up the (NBG). 1st Sett moves SW onto hill to discover if there is a special below the hut (or is hidden, per Straybow). It's a Whale and there is a grass tile. 2nd Sett explores river system.


This move is subject to intense RCC. I could have gambled on the Special being there, and not being a Fish and moved W onto the adjacent plain. Then the Gambit could have been tried two turns earlier. Plus, the first two cities would be closer together, more in keeping with a DaveV strat, ICS. I debated about doing it (going W) anyway. A two turn quicker start was tempting. But in the end, my mentat nature prevailed and I went with getting more information. Now that I know it's a Whale and that I can site on grass, I believe I made the right choice. But good, even strong arguments can be made for the other path.

3900bc -

Sett moves onto grass; Sett completes river exploration; Chariot reveals Silk as part of Wheat pattern.

3850bc -

River Sett becomes Madrid at (79,13). 2nd Sett becomes Seville at (73,17). Chariot tips hut and out pops a Nomad. The Gambit worked!! Move Nomad SW. There is probably a four special possibility by building at (83,19). Building the 3rd city to the SW, on the coast, is a better move now. Especially as it looks like it will be a Canal city and I can't resist. Later, if no other site turns up, the SSC can be built at (83,19). But that site will require a lot of tree clearing to max the pop. Again, a mentat requires data.

I debated about building Seville on the river (as in RL) because the encroaching Tundra may be a bad omen for suitable building sites to the North. But the second site is hill heavy. The Palace on the river will be able to grow more.

Select Alphabet as the first tech to research. Settings at 4-6-0 to max Science.

3750bc -

Squibs discover a magic called Alphabet. Get them going on knowledge to bury dead folk and whipping up a religion.

3700bc -

Build the 3rd city, Strabo'sFolly, a coastal city that is indeed a canal. As a canal city, obviously Straybow must be honored. If it turns out both sides are just inland-lakes then the folly part will be mine.
3650bc -

Seville builds Warrior for exploring and continues building another. Warrior finds Grapes in the hills beyond Seville. Chariot uncovers another Whale.

3600bc -

Madrid builds Warrior and switches to Settler. Chariot continues exploring. Rush build Warrior in StraboFolly.

3550bc -

Warrior in Strabo. Go exploring; switch to Settler. Ceremomial Burial --> Bronze.

3400bc -

Some partial rushing, more exploring. Seville gets 2nd Warrior and switches to Settler. Looking more like an inland sea. Another Canal may be in order.

3300bc -

Bronze Working --> Code. (69,21) looks like a possible canal site that will give blue water access.

3050bc -

There will be 3 new Settlers in a few turns. One sure bet, IMHO, is (69,21). Another possibility is (79,29) if it is grass. Good luck, everyone.

Monk

Who will be next??