 |
| |
|
|
King
My head stuck permanently in my civ
|
Feb 2000
time: 00:16
| |
|
|
OK, so I haven't been the biggest fan of moo2. It was just so different from classic moo.
I actually have played a time or two. just long enough to encounter another race, and then give up in frustration..
See, I didn't understand that Moo2 is what you get if you take Moo and MoM and use a polymerization card (from Yu-Gi-Oh) on them. since then, I have played and enjoyed Master of Magic several times, and I think I'm willing to try moo2 one more time.
what would be the best starting situation? in the moo manual, it suggested med galaxy, klackons, and 3 opponents on easy for your first game. no such suggestion for moo2 in the manual.
Please don't have me making a custom race first off, as I don't have enough experience to understand what is good. suggest one of the premade races, and would small or medium be better.
and hope third time's the charm....
|
|
| |
|
|
Prince
Vancouver, Canada
|
Jun 2001
time: 15:16
| |
|
|
Normal, Large, with 3 races....
Since I started with an custom race, as custom races can be stronger than default picks....
Unified, Creative, Warlord/+production/+reseach/artifact homeworld/Large Homeworld, -Ground attack, -ship attack, repulsive.
Read up a bit on the early tech tree advice that has been scattered around, and the AI should be completely pwned....
|
|
| |
|
|
King
My head stuck permanently in my civ
|
Feb 2000
time: 00:16
| |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by vmxa1
Well you can tke the Psilons and play in a large universe with 3 or 4 races. That should do it and take one of the lower levels. |
OK, I'll try that.
|
|
| |
|
|
Warlord
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
|
Sep 1999
time: 07:16
| |
|
|
Psilons in MOO2 get all the techs, so that will acquaint you with the research items. However, they're Dictatorship, so you will want to build Marine Barracks on each colony to improve its morale and output. The quickest way is to plant an Outpost ship before you place either a Colony Base (in-system) or Colony Ship (in a new system).
Also, Psilons are Low-G, so you should research toward Planetary Gravity Generators and build one on each medium-G colony, and especially on every high-G colony otherwise you won't get much out of those planets.
Huge maps at Tutor or Easy will give the Psilons ample time to research before meeting aggressors, PROVIDED that you TURN ON the END-OF-TURN WAIT. (It's on a long list of options on an in-game menu.)
I lost my very first game, playing as the Psilons at Tutor, because MOO2 didn't wait for me to do anything! First and last event that stopped the turns spinning was an attack fleet against which I had no (opportunity to build) defences on my only planet.
|
|
| |
|
|
Warlord
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
|
Sep 1999
time: 07:16
| |
|
|
The races are among the most enjoyable features about MOO2.
Another good race to play while you're learning:
Silicoids. They are Lithovore and Tolerant. Since they don't need food you can put (almost) everyone on production, or research, or housing, or trade goods (money-making). Almost, because you usuallu want some progress in both research and production.
Being Tolerant, they don't suffer from Pollution, and they have more room to live on each planet; and of course (not having to eat) they can live anywhere.
The Silicoids have -50% population growth, otherwise they would expand rampantly. Now, you can customise that away, but you say you want to know the stock races first, so the trick is to colonise the other planets in the same system and put them on Housing. Don't forget to Outpost (for Marine Barracks) before Colonising, because Silicoids are Dictatorship . Every time the Housing Colony's population increases to two (2), transfer 1 settler to the major world (initially your homeworld). This (popular) trick will ensure that your major worlds will grow much faster.
|
|
| |
|
|
Warlord
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
|
Sep 1999
time: 07:16
| |
|
|
Additional races of note:
* Klackons have production bonuses, of which Unification is the most powerful (+50% to food and industry, and oblivious to the concept of morale so marine barracks are _not_ essential for young colonies).
However Klackons are Uncreative (not the most innovative family of ants on the block), which means you have no choice in techs, so you will often find that vital items such as Research Laboratory and Automated Factory are absent from your list. Lacking those two in particular can be crippling.
So you will need to Trade and to Spy to get techs. Best time to Trade is when your diplomatic relations are good (up in the Green). Best time to Spy is while at War (otherwise you will soon get wars you don't want).
* Sakkra have high population growth, and they're Subterranean, so they have more room on each planet. However, they are Feudal, so they research slowly (-50% per scientist). You will have to rely heavily on research buildings and on settling many colonies to improve your science. You will also want to Trade and Spy. Feudal, like Dictatorship, needs Marine Barracks, so Outpost before Colonising.
* Trilarians are an interesting race to play. Being Aquatic, they treat Terran and Ocean worlds as if Gaian (extra food), and Swamp and Tundra worlds as if Terran. Their homeworld is of course Ocean. The extra food means they can afford to put more people on research and production.
The Trilarians can usefully specialise their worlds. Food worlds can export their surplus via Freighters to the Dry but Rich colonies, which therefore can grow their populations quickly. Most other races would have trouble finding the food to do that,
They are Dictatorship, so they need Marine Barracks (think Outposts again) to get the best from colonies.
Trilarians are Transdimensional. Their ships travel 2 parsecs/turn faster (no small difference as it amounts to two engine techs, which early in the game means double the speed) so Trilarians can reach planets quicker than their rivals, for colonisation, for defence, and for attack.
Also, the Hyperspace Flux event, which shuts down the interstellar drives of every other race for an indeterminate number of turns, has no effect on Transdimensional vessels. (Incidentally, according to the MOO3 backstory, the Hyperspace Flux is a recurrent unwanted aftermath of the pocket-universe technology that the Orions used to confine the Antarans and so end the Orion-Antaran war.)
In combat, Transdimensional ships are faster by 4 additional squares per turn; and in version 1.31 of MOO2 with Initiative On (a good choice), that means superior initiative, which often means getting to fire the first shot (or running from a stronger foe before their weapons can catch you).
* Meklars: Cybernetic with +2 Production. They only eat half a unit of food each, but they need half a unit of production to sustain themselves (otherwise they perish from absence of electricity and lack of maintenance).
This eating of production is bad enough at low industrial levels: still a net 1.5 production from workers, but a net -0.5 from farmers, so it's fortunate they only need half as many farmers. So the +2 Production bonus isn't nearly as great as it seems.
But on Industrial planets, there is Pollution. All races except the Silicoid have to face that, but for Cybernetics it's much worse because the production they need to eat comes out of the little Industry that's left over AFTER Pollution has taken the lion's share of it! So the Meklars desperately NEED the Pollution-reducing technologies.
That also means less choice in what they research: Merculite and Pulson Missiles, Iridium Fuel Cells, Zortrium Armor, and Microlite Construction are all valuable techs but the Meklars have to weigh up whether to continue to cripple their industry while hoping to trade for anti-pollution techs, or to forego some or all of the above military, colonising, and production bonus techs when they are likely most needed.
Cybernetic also means Regenerative ships: all ship (and planet!) systems repair during combat, and ship shields recharge faster, because Meklars (including the ship leader Sparky) are excellent engineers. So Shield and Armor techs are natural choices for Meklars. (Zortium Armor or Atmosphere Renewer - what a dilemma!)
|
|
| |
|
|
Prince
Vancouver, Canada
|
Jun 2001
time: 15:16
| |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Zoetrope
Silicoids.
Being Tolerant, they don't suffer from Pollution, and they have more room to live on each planet; and of course (not having to eat) they can live anywhere.
The Silicoids have -50% population growth, otherwise they would expand rampantly. Now, you can customise that away, but you say you want to know the stock races first, so the trick is to colonise the other planets in the same system and put them on Housing. Don't forget to Outpost (for Marine Barracks) before Colonising, because Silicoids are Dictatorship . Every time the Housing Colony's population increases to two (2), transfer 1 settler to the major world (initially your homeworld). This (popular) trick will ensure that your major worlds will grow much faster. |
Just get cloning by reseaching biology. At +100k growth silicoids can grow as fast as most races, and considering that one can tech robo miners without worrying about pollution, Silicoids don't expand slow once you get into mid game....
|
|
| |
|
|
King
My head stuck permanently in my civ
|
Feb 2000
time: 00:16
| |
|
|
OK, so I'm a bit into this game, and it's not so bad. Psilons get the whole tech pie, I guessordinary folks have to pick between the available techs in an advance, and uncreative types only get one, and don't get to choose. is that right?
I noticed pretty early on that new colonies are pretty bad off until you get that marine base. Kind of reminds me of the corruption in Civ3. I discovered the outpost ship trick by accident. Now I use it all the time.
Speaking of which, outpost ships are pretty cheap, but Colony ships are outrageous!!!! even in a powerful planet with lots of production it still took 17 turns!
Antarans are a big pain. they come to a system and invariably attack the planet without the Star Base. this is especially galling when my ships couldn't handle them (did minimal damage with fusion beams) but a starbase could.
I think I recall someone suggesting assault shuttles to take over antarans. I just got assault shuttles, so I'm designing such a ship.
I haven't found a use for a cloning center yet. all my planets seem to grow pretty quickly.
NOW.
I have a question not answered by the manual or interface. I built a spy, but how do I set it to be an agent in my empire. You know, a counterspy?
I can't figure it out....
|
|
| |
|
|
King
My head stuck permanently in my civ
|
Feb 2000
time: 00:16
| |
|
|
Oh, and one way it's like good old Moo1. other empires will up and declare war for lousy reasons, and then never bother to attack before coming and asking for peace 20-30 turns later.
Some things never change.
except now they come asking me to pay for peace. tribute, or a tech. I turned that one on its head by going to a race that declared war and then did nothing about it, and offered peace in exchange for tribute. they started paying me.
go figure.
|
|
| |
|
|
King
My head stuck permanently in my civ
|
Feb 2000
time: 00:16
| |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by vmxa1
When you build a spy it is added to your pile and defends against other spies. On the Race screen you can see how many spies you have and if they are agents or spies. It also shows you the current percentage they have (effectiveness).
If you want to use on one another race, move it to that races picture and select the function you want. This will be either espionage or not as in Moo1. |
so when a spy is added to the pool, he is a counter spy unless I drag him to another race? I thought newly built spies were unassigned.
|
|
| |
|
|
King
My head stuck permanently in my civ
|
Feb 2000
time: 00:16
| |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by vmxa1
Yes they tinkered around with this abit in the patches, but it is still not very good. I play as a Repulsive most of the time to avoid the chit chat and to prevent me from extorting the AI.
It is too easy to make them give you tribute and then systems. |
at least they got rid of the cheat of redirecting retreating ships. I was a little miffed when I couldn't redirect the scout to it's next destination, but I understand. it's kind of like removing the civ1 settler cheat from civ2.
|
|
| |
|
|
King
My head stuck permanently in my civ
|
Feb 2000
time: 00:16
| |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Father Beast
Antarans are a big pain. they come to a system and invariably attack the planet without the Star Base. this is especially galling when my ships couldn't handle them (did minimal damage with fusion beams) but a starbase could.
I think I recall someone suggesting assault shuttles to take over antarans. I just got assault shuttles, so I'm designing such a ship.
|
I have to eat my words, now. The antarans attacked with two small and 4 medium ships, but they attacked my Homeworld, with a battlestation and missile base. I had a large ship with troop pods and assault shuttles, but it wasn't enough. they ended up pounding my world from 14 to 4 pop, and destroying most of the buildings. and the battlestation, too.
|
|
| |
|
|
King
My head stuck permanently in my civ
|
Feb 2000
time: 00:16
| |
|
|
it's about 3548. that makes it about 480 turns into the game, if it's 10 turns per year.
|
|
| |
|
|
Warlord
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
|
Sep 1999
time: 07:16
| |
|
|
Antarans appear on the map anywhere from one (1) to four (4) turns out.
To capture Antarans, you need a specialist ground combat race, you need to be ready and waiting with the boarding ships before the Antarans announce their visit, and you need to be good at ship battle tactics: in particular, you need to know how to distract the Antarans from your boarding vessels and/or assault shuttles while you close in. Tractor beams are good but you have to be quick before the Antarans auto-destruct. Speed is of the essence against those Elder Bullies.
Marine bases improve morale for Dictatorship and Feudal; they don't affect morale in Democracy; whereas Unification has no concept of morale.
Incidentally, the best govt for morale is Dictatorship: with Psionics and all the morale achievements and buildings, it can get +100% morale which means +100% on production, science, farming, and i guess taxation too.
On the other hand, Galactic Unification gets +100% on production and farming automatically, which is very powerful because production is so vital.
As you play you'll realise that MOO2 wrongly weighs the governments: Demo is too many picks compared to Uni (or Uni is too few), and Feudal is too punishing for only -4 picks. I would have disentangled the effects of govts and weighted them separately: eg, Feudal gives 2/3 ship costs, and that should be a +pick in itself; Feudal also gives -50% research per scientist, and that should be a -pick
in itself.
|
|
| |
|
|
King
My head stuck permanently in my civ
|
Feb 2000
time: 00:16
| |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by vmxa1
Yes that is it one year is 10 turns. So 480 turns is a heck of a lot for a Moo2 game. I am surprised they did not send titan class ships, must be due to the level. |
Yeah, playing on tutor. I call the first four sizes after their moo1 counterparts, instead of "frigate and destroyer and such, so small, medium, large, huge, then titan and doom star.
quote:
Originally posted by vmxa1
Do you have all the tech researched now? If so, I would expect BS and missile base and a BB tobe plenty to defeat them. I would not put shuttles and such on ships, especially so late in the game.
A BB with autofire disrupters should kill the Antie frigates the first turn. Use HV mounts and Inertial Stabilizers, HEF and Reinforce Hulls. Remove any other specials (not Battle Pods).
You should have had a 4 turn warning to get more ships there if needed. |
nope, don't have all tech yet. don't have autofire diruptors. just barely got phasors.I did max out one field, though (power).
|
|
| |
|
|
King
My head stuck permanently in my civ
|
Feb 2000
time: 00:16
| |
|
|
Ok, so the antarans send a fleet to one of my tiny worlds with missile bases and ground batteries. The game crashes partway into the battle. again and again on all reloads.
I check and discover I am using version 1.2, so I find the 1.31 patch on the internet and download it. One of the things it says it fixes is the tiny world radiation shield crash. sure enough, that's my problem.
But the game won't run with the patch on. it says something like too many items in racesutf.lbx, a file which doesn't exist.
So I had to uninstall and reinstall version 1.2. Then sell off the radiation shield before the antarans arrived. Dang.
Still fought them off, though.
|
|
| |
|
|
Warlord
|
Apr 2004
time: 08:16
| |
|
|
ftp://ftp.infogrames.net/patches/moo2/
I guess you took the (new?) 1.31 exe patch here.
It doesnt work.....with 1.2.....(i guess u need 1.3 first ---- poor hw was added there in the racestuff....)
or......the easiest solution....
take the 1.31 zip file there........it works for sure.....
|
|
| |
|
|
Warlord
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
|
Sep 1999
time: 07:16
| |
|
|
As siron hinted, the filename is spelt "racestuf.lbx" (not "racesutf"). It is present as you can't do much without it, but I don't recall whether it's automatically put on the hard drive or normally stays on the CD.
|
|
| |
|
|
Prince
Vancouver, Canada
|
Jun 2001
time: 15:16
| |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Zoetrope
Antarans appear on the map anywhere from one (1) to four (4) turns out.
To capture Antarans, you need a specialist ground combat race, you need to be ready and waiting with the boarding ships before the Antarans announce their visit, and you need to be good at ship battle tactics: in particular, you need to know how to distract the Antarans from your boarding vessels and/or assault shuttles while you close in. Tractor beams are good but you have to be quick before the Antarans auto-destruct. Speed is of the essence against those Elder Bullies. |
I don't think it is that hard. With max/near max tech with marines at >+80, capturing Antarans merely requires enough marines..... (20:1 to be safe, and more than enough firepower to neutralize them the Ant ships if needed)
Unless one is playing -10GC LowGrav, one can cap Antaran ships if one gets all the techs for it. And addition to Ground Combat techs, assualt shuttles, troop pods, tracker beams, transporters and someway of getting the ships close is needed.
If you don't even have autophasers and gets pwned by a few small ships, don't try capturing though. Your marines simply won't stand a chance unless we are talking about frigates.
-------------------------
Last game, I took a Antaran battleship after immobilizing with my autophasers, stasised it with my destroyer and surround it with ~25 ships cruiser/BB. One other Ant cruiser was immobilized and assaulted, but it self destructed due to q-det after having its marines killed. The marines where at +85, 1hit (no power armor).
And I only got damper field......  Me wanna xenotronium after getting Orion too. I killed the Antarans for good 15 turns later with my 117 ship fleet after getting tired of killing the Ai....but that reflector field is a *****, and I don't have timewarp stellar converter doomstar this game to kill it, or blackhole gen phase cloaked CA/DD.... (not that it took anything more than 1/3 fleet to fire)
When playing Creative, with +95 2hit marines, Ants are pwned easily.
|
|
| |
|
|
Prince
Vancouver, Canada
|
Jun 2001
time: 15:16
| |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by vmxa1
I mean it, never colonize a tiny world, you don't need it. |
Maybe not for production purposes (though it can be a tiny bit okay with biosphere + adv city planning or +pop picks, there are better choices unless playing a small-ish map) but what about using it as a forward base so that one can help invade time warp indictator-defended systems. Just pop a barrier shield and Ground battary and it'd be quite annoying to take out. Just build it during peace and watch the scary jump gate teleport your fleet into the heart of the enemy when war starts.
Or I should just use the ~1000bp for a Titan?
|
|
| |
|
|
Warlord
of Arkansas
|
Nov 2004
time: 07:16
| |
|
|
| |
|
|
