Modified scenarios workshop

McMonkey · May 17, 2009, 17:22

I have been wondering how many of us would be interested in setting up a thread for modified scenarios and a corosponding section for them on the SL Wiki. I know Fairline has converted several MGE scenarios to ToT and done graphics mods for them (EG Sengoku Jidai, Bonaparte, Aeterna Civitas). Gapetit has also given a large number of MGE scenarios a revamp with Fairline's and his own modified units. I often feel the need to do a complete overhaul of the graphics before I attempt to play a scenario and have some modified ones on my hard-drive and I expect others do too.

As well as the visual aspect there are often bugs in the gameplay that can be fairly easily fixed. Often the designers are no longer around to do such work but as AGRICOLA showed recently, with Bonaparte, the fixes are often quite easily done. I can think of a few scenarios that would benefit from some minor tweaking. I am sure that the designers would not mind this tinkering. In fact I'm fairly sure they would be happy that people were still enjoying their work enough to want to take the time to improve it, I know I would be!

Just an idea anyway. It could be interesting to pick one scenario at a time, have a discussion on what could be done, dig out and finish off any graphics mods and make any minor changes to the rules or events needed and then upload them to the SL Wiki to allow them a new lease of life. Undoubtedly this will lead to some creative differences as everyone has different tastes but I am sure we could come to some kind of consensus and everyone can then do their own private alterations to suit themselves (shiny white roads etc...

)

Oh, and this most definitely would not include Red Front!

Chris 62 · May 17, 2009, 19:15

I like the idea, I too often change the units.

It might be nice if all the available units were better organized.

The current links to threads with them have pages of text with no units, and are sometimes 17 or more pages long!

Perhaps someone could organize them into pages of JUST units without all the posts so it would be easier to fix up old scenarios.

Here is an update of units I did for the WWI era second reich scenario:

Chris 62 · May 17, 2009, 19:16

When i say 'update' I just mean gathering the units, i got them from all over, I always forget who made what.

techumseh · May 17, 2009, 20:09

Some work was done on this a few years ago. With the help of Fairline and David Woehr, we converted several top notch MGE scenarios to ToT with state of the art graphic upgrades. Some of them are on my site, here: http://www.tecumseh.150m.com/Convers...nversions.html

Since then, I've been working on a mod for ToT Original, with new rules and 3 distinct unit styles: German, British, and Russian. Dk Blue and Green civs have German units, Orange, Yellow, and Lt Blue have British units, and White and Purple civs have Russian. Barbarian units are in the British style.

I've made lots of changes to the rules, esp. units. Ancient units are revamped, with Phalanxes becoming the major offensive unit until Legions. Archers are now the basic defensive unit. Early 2 MP units are weaker offensively.

Medieval units are the same, but there are arquebusier units instead of Musketeers, which come later, with Leadership.

Only Explorer and Mountain units can enter mountain or glacier terrain. Air units are now broken into WWI (with Zeppelins), WWII and early jet types. Stealth is renamed Jet Propulsion.

Naval units have increased movement. There are no changes to the city improvements or wonders. Sometime this summer, I'll upload the mod to the SL site.

McMonkey · May 18, 2009, 04:36

Originally Posted by Chris 62

I like the idea, I too often change the units.

It might be nice if all the available units were better organized.

The current links to threads with them have pages of text with no units, and are sometimes 17 or more pages long!

Perhaps someone could organize them into pages of JUST units without all the posts so it would be easier to fix up old scenarios.

There is the Units section of the Scenario League Wiki:
http://sleague.apolyton.net/index.ph...ory:Civ2_Units

Most of the Test of Time compilations made by Fairline have been added. I am working on several massive MGE compilations divided by era and then sub divided by nations and wars. This will probably take a long time to sort properly but I have all the units in several massive bitmap images. I could upload them to the SL Wiki in zip files. They are far from perfect compilations but you should be able to find pretty much any unit you need.

My own idea of a good graphic modification is consistency. The vast majority of quality unit graphics are by Fairline or are mods of his units. Gapetit does a good job of using Fairline's original units and doing his own modifications of Fairline's units to fill the gaps. The final result is a unit set that all match.

I'm not sure what the current feelings are about signatures. I try to keep them where space allows but ofter there are so many signatures that there is no space left. I think the original artist and the last person to modify the unit should be enough. Anyone have a strong opinion about this?

McMonkey · May 18, 2009, 04:44

Originally Posted by techumseh

I've been working on a mod for ToT Original.

That's funny. When I was having my morning shower (where I have a lot of my best ideas!) I was thinking about doing the same kind of thing for MGE, just for my own amusement. There are a few spare slots for extra units and I can think of some tweaks that would make the original game more challenging. I was also planning to redo the graphics and play on the European map I created.

I know a lot of these mods have been done over the years. Yesterday I was looking at the Fascist patch which uses some of the spare unit slots. I would like to make the early part of the game more interesting. Too often the ancient period is over before I have had any significant wars.

Your idea sounds like a more substantial improvement and the original ToT really needs a makeover, it is so ugly!!! Look forward to seeing this!

civ2units · May 18, 2009, 10:46

I would devide the graphic section from the SL into TOT and MGE. The problem is, that MGE only use 256 colours and TOT graphics should be converted for using in a classic civ2 game. When there are two sections, the scenario designer immediatelly knows, where he can find his graphics.

Also we have many graphics (i.e. city, icons, terrain, etc...) in the scenario folders which are not available on a thread. Maybe we can sort them out and posting them on the SL.

McMonkey · May 18, 2009, 17:38

Dividing the MGE and ToT Unit graphics makes sense and should be easy enough to do. I would like to upload more cities, terrains and icons but it will probably be some time before I can get round to it. Feel free to upload any good sets you think would be useful for designers.

civ2units · May 19, 2009, 03:58

Great, I will have a look on my computer, what I have for graphics. I can upload them but I don´t really know, how to devide the graphics section.

McMonkey · May 19, 2009, 05:11

Currently the resources section (http://sleague.apolyton.net/index.ph...:Civ2_Graphics) has the following sub-sections for graphics: Units, Cities, Icons, People, Terrain.

The units section is well stocked if not yet complete. The other sections need to be filled. I would just add stuff in any order for now. Once there is enough on there to work with it will be easy enough to shuffle it all around into a logical order. That's just a case of copy & pasting the text around.

I will do a quick tidy up now so you can just begin adding stuff when you can

EDIT: I just tried uploading the terrain 1 & 2 from Frederick the Great to get things started (renamed terrain1FTG/terrain2FTG) and realized the Bitmap format does not work well with the Wiki. I guess we will have to have a preview in a different format (PNG/GIF?) and include the Bitmaps in a Zip or rar file. What would be best?

civ2units · May 19, 2009, 06:17

I would make a png preview and saving the the real graphics in a zip file like we have done with the units. This should be the best way.

I´m trying to upload something at the weekend.

McMonkey · May 19, 2009, 07:10

Keep on chipping away at the stone. We'll get there eventually

Elensar · May 19, 2009, 10:14

One thing that would be nice to have - both (?) with the mod techumseh mentioned and alone (at least alone) is someone converting the changes from the Fascism patch over to ToT.

Fundementalism makes no more sense there than in any Civ 2.

I'm not sure of what all needs to be adjusted to do it properly or I'd do it (and I'm not sure we have permission...do we need permission?)

curtsibling · May 20, 2009, 04:56

I am sure there is a Fascism patch for ToT...

I'm going to check...

gapetit · May 23, 2009, 06:40

McMonkey I think that you have a very good idea. There are a lot of very nice scenarios that with little changes are news scenarios... Yes mge is more limited that tot, in space and colours (256) but adapted it, that is fun too, the units and other graphics can lost quality, but not much...
I have modified a lot of graphics of tot and something old scenario, and the proved are very good.
Saludos,
Petit

gapetit · May 23, 2009, 08:20

I don´t know if the people have it...
Units adapt for red front mge-fw:
http://sleague.apolyton.net/index.ph...rap_fw-mge.zip
De nuevo saludos
Petit

McMonkey · May 23, 2009, 11:05

Good stuff gapetit

At some point I will go through all of your mods and upload them to the Scenario League, either as an optional extra on the existing scenario page or if there is no page for the scenario I will create one. Of course I will leave the original graphics in place. If we make any mods that go further than just the graphics I think a new page should be created for the scenario which explains what has been updated and why.

gapetit · May 24, 2009, 12:43

Very well McMonkey,
Saludos,
Petit

curtsibling · May 26, 2009, 15:51

There are many classic scenarios kicking around that could really be brought to life with ToT.

I recently updated Exile's great Imperialism 1870 with graphics, but I ended up going the
whole hog and maxing out the rules and units file with tech running up to a 1939 level!

I also messed around with the rules layout and events, and even added a batch file.

This of course is the extreme end of upgrading! Some scenarios might only need a GFX
mod to bring them up to date, and of naturally they would have to be CIV-converted.

McMonkey · May 27, 2009, 07:35

That's the sort of thing I was thinking of CS. Minor graphics mods can be added to the scenarios existing page on the SLeague Wiki whilst major modifications or ToT conversions can have new pages.

If anyone has one of the above mods or graphics updates please let me know and I will be happy to upload it to the SLeague Wiki or build a new page for it. Alternatively feel free to upload it yourself if you know how to.

GhostOfDisco · May 28, 2009, 15:32

I know the Bonaparte scenario could benefit from ToT's extra unit slots (am I the only one annoyed to see, say, French and British units belonging to the "Independant" barbs?)

Originally Posted by Chris 62

Here is an update of units I did for the WWI era second reich scenario:

I saw that and decided to improve it (the Italian cavalry and Hungarian infantry are probably inaccurate, and I couldn't find a fairline-quality railroad gun besides the Nazi WW2 one, but still...)

gapetit · May 30, 2009, 15:06

GhostOfDisco your adaptation of fairline's units are perfect... It´s very well.

I modified the original scenario of John Ellis about Bonapart (of 1998), that after he did better: boney, and Fairline put his wonderful units...
With my modified (scenario, rules, evens), graphics (of Fairline), cities (of Curt Sibling), etc., the scenario is diferent, and for me fun... If John Ellis is not opposed I would like to send it.
Saludos,
Petit

curtsibling · May 30, 2009, 17:20

@GhostOfDisco: Those updates of the units look awesome!

@gapetit: Lovely work with that Boneparte redux!

gapetit · May 31, 2009, 14:49

Sometimes the wait is not my fort, excuse me Ellis.
I hope that it redux entertains you like to me.
Saludos,
Petit
I do not include the sounds.

McMonkey · June 1, 2009, 05:13

Great stuff guys. When I get some spare time I will start adding the graphics mods to the SL Site and building new pages for the ToT conversions and major mods. I have some holiday coming up so I should be able to do some work, hopefully in the garden with a beer if the good weather continues.

fairline · June 1, 2009, 06:37

Originally Posted by GhostOfDisco

I know the Bonaparte scenario could benefit from ToT's extra unit slots (am I the only one annoyed to see, say, French and British units belonging to the "Independant" barbs?)

There's already a ToT conversion by Catfish which I have gfx for.

fairline · June 1, 2009, 06:42

Originally Posted by McMonkey

I have been wondering how many of us would be interested in setting up a thread for modified scenarios and a corosponding section for them on the SL Wiki. I know Fairline has converted several MGE scenarios to ToT and done graphics mods for them (EG Sengoku Jidai, Bonaparte, Aeterna Civitas). Gapetit has also given a large number of MGE scenarios a revamp with Fairline's and his own modified units. I often feel the need to do a complete overhaul of the graphics before I attempt to play a scenario and have some modified ones on my hard-drive and I expect others do too.

As well as the visual aspect there are often bugs in the gameplay that can be fairly easily fixed. Often the designers are no longer around to do such work but as AGRICOLA showed recently, with Bonaparte, the fixes are often quite easily done. I can think of a few scenarios that would benefit from some minor tweaking. I am sure that the designers would not mind this tinkering. In fact I'm fairly sure they would be happy that people were still enjoying their work enough to want to take the time to improve it, I know I would be!

Just an idea anyway. It could be interesting to pick one scenario at a time, have a discussion on what could be done, dig out and finish off any graphics mods and make any minor changes to the rules or events needed and then upload them to the SL Wiki to allow them a new lease of life. Undoubtedly this will lead to some creative differences as everyone has different tastes but I am sure we could come to some kind of consensus and everyone can then do their own private alterations to suit themselves (shiny white roads etc...

)

Oh, and this most definitely would not include Red Front!

Nice idea. A pukka ToT conversion together with bug/gameplay tweaks and a bit of graphical polish works wonders. Might even get people (ie me!) playing civ again. Any suggestions for which scenarios?

techumseh · June 1, 2009, 11:14

I'd like Koby's new Pacific war scenario converted. I'd be willing to change the graphics to ToT standard.

typhoon · June 1, 2009, 11:31

If I may interject with the following list of Catfish converted scenarios at hand -

2194 Days of War by Captain Nemo and Alex the Magnificent

All Under Heaven v1.14 by Winterfritz

Hammer of the North v2.9 by Morten Blaabjerg

Seize the Crown by John Ellis.

Sub Wars v1.0 by Bernd "BeBro" Brosing.

There are also several scenarios, such as John Ellis' Hundred Years War and Jesús Muñoz Fernández's Carolus Invictissimus which have completed units.bmp by Gareth but lack full conversions, and some underway like Carl Fritz's Brown Man's Burden and Exile's Imperialism 1870. In addition there are the old ToT scens at the Cradle of Civilization that could use a face lift. Michael Jeszenka's Europe in Flames and Techumseh's Congo, for instance.

As for unconverted scenarios, I'd personally like to see Hellas and Colonies IV by John Ellis, Koby's TRON and ZWK, and Case's Raging Dragon in ToT. I've dabbled with them at one point or another, at varying degrees of completion, but I'm sure someone with more experience and know-how could do a better job.

McMonkey · June 1, 2009, 18:31

Good stuff! If you want me to build a new page for a ToT converted scenario please feel free to e-mail me the files (if you need my e-mail addy just send me a PM). I definitely think there are a number of good scenarios around that could be given a whole new lease of life. This would also add to the list of reasons for people to get into Test of Time. Also a lot of scenarios were built before stackable terrain was widely employed. I think it makes a real difference to a lot of scenarios and would be worth adding along with the appropriate stat tweaks.

Now I just need some spare time to start adding these wonderful works to the SL Site