Dale/Snoopy PatchMod (Bug-fixes and more) - Page 2

crantor · September 29, 2008, 12:49

Definately getting and playing a few games with this.Looks good, and I like the proposed changes.

I certainly hope we will one day be able to move a colonist and then use him the same turn. *grumble*

chooch · September 29, 2008, 16:11

Playing with Patch Mod, king demanded 30 gold (early, had only spent 20 for lodge so I had 80 left) and when I agreed the game crashed.

Windows XP, playing with blue marble skin.

don't know if you want this kind of info... thx

Dale · September 29, 2008, 16:42

Snoopy, let's put "AI making an army" back on the table. How big do you want the AI army?

chooch:
Thanks, I'll look into it.

snoopy369 · September 29, 2008, 18:09

Big, but not so big that it cripples the AI?

I'd say:
1. 50 guns for every colony (maybe above size 2)
2. 50 additional guns for every 3rd colonist
3. 50 horses for every 5th colonist
4. 1 artillery for every 6th colonist

And then adjust it based on how well they do with that? We don't want them actually taking the units out and making them soldiers, of course, unless they're in AI_ATTACK or whatever, or in AI_DECLARED_INDEPENDENCE, and I imagine if they're in AI_BUILD_UP_FOR_INDEPENDENCE, they should increase the numbers ...

How good is the AI at economic stuff?

Dale · September 29, 2008, 18:11

No, I mean standing army. I have the AI creating a standing army to defend from native attacks, and the Euro takeover gambit.

I was thinking 1 soldier per 4 pop myself. And 1 dragoon per 10.

snoopy369 · September 29, 2008, 18:15

Why a standing army that's not actively fighting, though? Can't the AI be told to mobilize some of the guys who are colonists, if there's a city danger?

chooch · September 29, 2008, 18:41

Hi guys, same crash with payment of initial kings payment request yr 1524. When I reloaded the game and rejected the payment, it didn't crash.

In the old game, the AI's always had all kinds of troops running around. They would camp out around your colonies (wouldn't hinder production, though unless you were at war with them). Seems like in this version (Civ 4: Col) there is a lot less battling going on in general...?

Dale · September 29, 2008, 19:04

Quote:

Originally posted by snoopy369
Why a standing army that's not actively fighting, though? Can't the AI be told to mobilize some of the guys who are colonists, if there's a city danger?

Mostly, to stop indians taking 3 or 4 cities as soon as the dow an AI. I've seen it happen way too much.

It'll also effectively stop the human gambit of camping a caravel full of soldiers off the coast of the city, dow the AI then immediately sail in and occupy the city. That's a major exploit the AI can't handle obviously.

snoopy369 · September 29, 2008, 19:11

Won't the guns-in-the-city protect the city, though? Don't they get taken up by any available citizen?

Dale · September 29, 2008, 23:03

That only occurs once though.

Caledorn · September 30, 2008, 01:22

I just thought I'd give a headsup for the newest version of this patch - I have (and am currently) playing it, and enjoying it very much. :-)

There is a weird issue I'd like to mention though, just in case you guys are not aware of it. If I enter the world builder and select to regenerate the map (with the A_new_world map script), really weird stuff happens to the regenerated map. Boats disappear, settlers appear inland, and I've even seen land mass overlapped by "Sail to Europe" territory tiles. And on one game start with said map generator script there was only 2 mere tiles of "Sail East" in the very upper right corner of the map, and all the European colonial nations started in the very same square up there.

Dale · September 30, 2008, 03:55

You know you're doing SOMETHING right when playing around with the AI and on conquistador it beats you to Independance victory!

(Even just the fact it can now GET an independance victory is a major goal!)

snoopy369 · September 30, 2008, 10:10

Wow, nice job Dale ...

snoopy369 · September 30, 2008, 10:11

Quote:

Originally posted by Dale
That only occurs once though.

Ooooooh. Understood then.

snoopy369 · September 30, 2008, 10:42

Issue post updated with some additional issues I want to look at. Dale, I probably won't be able to work on this today as I have a game to go to

but tomorrow i'll have time to work on messaging and such.

crantor · September 30, 2008, 14:34

Okey, so I finally got around to installing this mod and take it out for a spin. Decided to try a few new strategies and so on.

Started out as spain, didn't want to kill the natives ASAP, stared building up infrastructure, stole two hardened pioneers from france and dutchland. Easiest setting, marathon speed.

Saved the game and went off to work. Got home, loaded it up and played one turn.

The start of the next turn brought this: EVERY FOUNDING FATHER JOINED THE TUPI (except the ones already grabbed). EVERY ONE, AT THE SAME TURN.

Crantor angry!

snoopy369 · September 30, 2008, 15:08

That's a good one ... I'd love to have the save so I can see what's wrong (can you post it here, you probably will have to zip it up)...

Must be something wrong with one of the read functions, but no idea what.

crantor · September 30, 2008, 16:32

Here it is. Just end the turn, it always ends up the same way (for me). Tupi grabs all the founding fathers and a bUNCH of goods get their value adjusted.

Dale · September 30, 2008, 20:06

Version 1.03 posted.

JungleIII · September 30, 2008, 22:49

Snoopy's stated change for the second item with V1.03: "AI now correctly pursues massive armament during lead-up to revolution (previously only did this on declaration of independance meaning it only got one turn to buy an army)." is not correct at all.

The A.I. built units every turn from the day you start building bells... the A.I. adds a REF unit.

I don't know what was changed with V 1.03 when referencing this line, but the A.I. never waited to 'buy' it's REF - you knew at ANY time what size army you were facing.

Is there a corrected explanation for this or what are you referring to?

(could you be referring to OTHER competitor colonist?)

JungleIII · September 30, 2008, 22:55

I'm also not sure of "Added code to ensure Treasure takes up 6 spots on a galleon (and other units as appropriate)"... I don't see value in this as it just makes for a very tedious process to ship those treasure carts back one - at - a - time, over and over.
I know it's true to the original game, but - hey, it sucked then too. I liked the 6 in the hold... move on, do something else - there is plenty of micromanagement to do without adding to it.

Dale · September 30, 2008, 22:59

Quote:

Originally posted by JungleIII
Snoopy's stated change for the second item with V1.03: "AI now correctly pursues massive armament during lead-up to revolution (previously only did this on declaration of independance meaning it only got one turn to buy an army)." is not correct at all.

The A.I. built units every turn from the day you start building bells... the A.I. adds a REF unit.

I don't know what was changed with V 1.03 when referencing this line, but the A.I. never waited to 'buy' it's REF - you knew at ANY time what size army you were facing.

Is there a corrected explanation for this or what are you referring to?

(could you be referring to OTHER competitor colonist?)

Not the REF, the AI colonisers. It never built an army till the turn it declared.

That point doesn't refer to the Kings at all.

Dale · September 30, 2008, 23:01

Quote:

Originally posted by JungleIII
I'm also not sure of "Added code to ensure Treasure takes up 6 spots on a galleon (and other units as appropriate)"... I don't see value in this as it just makes for a very tedious process to ship those treasure carts back one - at - a - time, over and over.
I know it's true to the original game, but - hey, it sucked then too. I liked the 6 in the hold... move on, do something else - there is plenty of micromanagement to do without adding to it.

The actual bug was that it was hard-coded that any unit only ever took 1 berth. It didn't use the XML tag in Civ4UnitInfos.xml at all. I just relinked it to the XML tag.

If you want treasure to only take 1 berth, open the Civ4UnitInfos.xml file and modify that tag for the treasure unit.

JungleIII · September 30, 2008, 23:02

Thanks Dale... thought you may have meant your competitors... No wonder they sucked.

Dale · October 1, 2008, 09:52

This is where 1.04 currently stands (not released, I want to get a few more things in and 1.03 hasn't really been tested by anyone yet).

Code:

Fixes and Changes:
REF:
* Added iKingUnitThresholdPercent xml tag to Civ4HandicapInfos.xml and implemented;
This allows the REF increases to be modified by an XML edit.
This will currently be left at 100% (normal), until further testing can be done to determine appropriate levels.
Increases base incremental percent (10%) by fraction of (value/100).
* Added iKingGoldThresholdPercent xml tag to Civ4HandicapInfos.xml and implemented;
This allows the REF to change due to paying King money demands to be modified per difficulty (default == 50)
This effects the REF threshold, rising it in relation to the amount of gold given to the King. This slows REF growth by kissing his pinky.

AI:
* AI will now use King's Transports after turn 90 for treasures if it doesn't have a galleon
* AI will load and take treasure to Europe from uncolonised continents (before they just sat there forever).
* AI now arms units in Europe and transports them to become standing defenders of the colonies.
* AI now correctly pursues massive armament during lead-up to revolution (previously only did this on declaration of independance meaning it only got one turn to buy an army).
* AI is now capable of winning Indian wars and the War of Independance

EDUCATION:
* Reduced education threshold increase from 20% to 10%

MAPS:
* AI start locs no longer in order from top to bottom of map (randomised).
* Humans no longer start in the same start loc.
* Europe Sea Zone fix to one third of the way in from the map edge and 4 tiles from coast
* Regenerating map now resets REF (previously, every regeneration increased REF by initial size. EG: 8/4/4/4 to 16/8/8/8).
* Europe sea zone now removed from map when plot erased (noticeable in Map Regeneration).
* Start locations on random maps spread out more (increased iRange index from 10 to 40 in CvPlayer::startingPlotRange()).

UNITS:
* Can now join cities after moving (like founding cities).
* Can now set profession after moving (like clear profession).
* Converted native can no longer be educated.

MISC:
* Cargo now takes the number of berths in ships as defined in Civ4UnitInfos.xml. (EG: Treasure now fills 6 berths of a ship)

Machismo · October 1, 2008, 10:14

So I installed a version 3 days ago and I have had some weird issues. Basically, the new game screen is messed up. Difficulties are colonist, < a blank space >, another blank, etc..... for like 5 or so spaces, and then the regular difficulties. It forced the speed of the game selection off the bottom of the screen (except Epic or whatever on the top of the list which was still on there).

Additionally, all the units seem more expensive. Also, I didn't notice a difference in the sea tiles, but I played on a random map.

When is 1.04 out?

(Moderator action: fixed post by adjusting the < tag > above so it didn't do weird things to the post. - Snoopy369)

snoopy369 · October 1, 2008, 12:25

Machismo, sounds like some xml might have been messed up - none of that stuff should have been modified (I didn't change the handicaps). I don't think that's happening on our test runs, at least I'm fairly sure I'd notice...

Dale, good chance I'll be able to do my message coding tonight... have to do laundry anyway so boss can't make me stay late

crantor · October 1, 2008, 12:45

I'd like to add that after the Tupis going pokemon-style on the founding fathers, I had the same odd game screen as Machismo. When choosing difficulty, I had one option (easiest), then a lot of blanks down to the rest. Just like Machismo. Reinstalled game and mod. It also seemed to have the quirky side effect that every custom game at pioneer difficulty were set as spanish, starting at the bottom. I did 4 fresh starts from the main menu and always spain, bottom. Changing difficulty level solved that.

I played two quick games just to see REF changes in action. First one I did the old fashioned game-the-system way; wagons galore, elder statemen working in the fields until WHAM, revolution! I won easily, had almost parity in units compared to the king. Next game I produced liberty bells the whole game, like the manual kinda implies you should, and well the REF was big. Not 500 unit silly big, but large. 150 atleast, 1:5 ratio. I lost. Both were at medium difficulty. Will try games on easiest and hardest next. IF you produce bells the whole game, you need to focus on revolution ASAP and not try and go the "build up your mini empire economically and slowly become independant", because the REF grows like a bad rash after spring break.

(go ahead and move this to the discussion thread if you feel it drifts ofcourse)

snoopy369 · October 1, 2008, 12:55

No, that's a bug report, and appropriate here

Do mention which version you're using though, that helps us track down bugs.

Did you accept paying the king his direct cash requests very often? Remember that significantly decreases the REF size.

Dale, is this something with 1.03?

crantor · October 1, 2008, 13:31

The above was 1.02, I just downloaded 1.03 and will try to get a few games in with it.

Besides the producing liberty bells at different stages and different speed the changes were:

game 1: The smiling dutch guy who is charismatic, so it adds 100% length to the king's requests. (Am I the only one who thinks the kings are really freaky? The english king looks like a transvestite. The Dutch one just looks creepy, drug-using). I accepted most requests since by the time he started whining for real money, I was swimming in cash and luxuary goods. I also did my patented "marine assault from caravel to grab french hardy pioneer" after 8 turns.

game 2: french. I went for a "rely on my native friends", which worked well; but I needed cash so had to refuse the King fairly often. Early bell production and so on, buying statesmen and putting up education system. Didn't stand much of a chance when the REF landed, A kill ratio of 2:1 doesn't help when they outnumber you 5:1. Live and learn!

I've almost given up on building a navy, I buy what I can with the spare cash and kamikaze em, but I find the money is best spent on vetern soldiers or cannons. With a decent amount of warships you can usually kamikaze a few, but never enough to make a dent. Perhaps if you only invested in the navy, building up an economy to buy warships and have lumber-colonies dedicated to cranking em out; you could survive with a lot fewer ground troops then.

I really suck at balancing issues, but I feel the REF adjustments are doing good to the game and more testing will lead us to even better balance. What i desperately want it some fix for the european AI's. Even with the veteran soldier in the city, and it has arms, and it has one turn to prepare for an assault, it doesn't react when I invade and I just take the town without a fight, no arming colonists with guns going on. It makes it trivial to take out the other AI's and just cruise to victory.

/ramble off