In-House Preview Online: Part 3

DanQ · January 23, 2003, 13:59

The third of a six-part detailed preview of Master of Orion III is now online. This six-page article, accompanied by fifteen screenshots, is written by Apolyton CS Co-Owner/Administrator Daniel Quick.

In late December, 2002, an advanced beta copy of [MoO3] arrived in my mailbox. Since then, I have had the opportunity to examine this much-anticipated turn-based strategy title first hand – both inside and outside of the gameplay itself, says Quick. What has been posted today is the first of six installments of this feature. In this edition, a journey's beginning is outlined from the interface perspective with an exhaustive examination of the main screen and two integral menus.

On behalf of the Apolyton CS staff and administration, I would like to thank MoO3 Producer Constantine Hantzopoulos and the rest of the game's team at both Infogrames Interactive and Quicksilver Software for this opportunity.

Of worthwhile note also is an exclusive accompaniment to this edition: the complete soundtrack from the introductory movie in MoO3. The nearly 3 minute clip is available for streaming on-demand in RealAudio® format. Part 4 will be posted next Thursday (barring any unforeseen circumstances). Comments on this article are welcomed in this thread.

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Dan; Apolyton CS

vovan · January 23, 2003, 14:24

Hello,

I just read through all three parts of the preview and must say it is pretty nice. Though I seem to have a problem with screenshots... When I click on them, I get a blank window, and the status bar of the main page says "Error on page." That is the case for each and every section... Any ideas why? I wanted to just browse the screenshot directory, so that I could see the large version of the screens any way, but sure enough, directory browsing is forbidden. I could just copy the screenshot url's from the html source, and in fact did that for a couple of the most interesting ones, but since that is a big pain in the behind, I was thinkning that maybe somebody would have any ideas.

ashbery · January 23, 2003, 14:39

Hey i like the intro talk ,very deep.

Iron Giant · January 23, 2003, 15:00

The game looks to be about as interesting as doing your taxes in a glorified spreadsheet.

Where is the combat? Where are the grand battles that allow me to force my will on other races?

I don't get any feel for the scope of this game.

Am I an accountant trying to balance my company books or the Leader of a Galactic Empire?

Alexfrog · January 23, 2003, 15:05

well yet again, compliments on the apolyton site forum and violent attacks on the other forum boards for this reveiw....

I think they are at this point attacking the preveiw mostly for the sake of attacking it!

Quotes from a thread on IGMOO (not posted by me):

"Ouch... I think I just injured my language skills."

Quote:

Whether or not you an experienced MoO player or a relative novice, one of the first tasks you will want to assign yourself is to get comfortable with the interface. This is true of any computer game for that matter. It provides for all key tools of the trade that one should be familiar with so as best to utilize them in the future. As your game progresses, it increases a strategy gamer's interest but also the intensity.

" wtf is that meant to mean? "

"That thought is like a hangover... see, with a hangover, the horrible, head splitting pain is your brain's way of saying you almost killed it last night.

That thought you just expressed is your brain telling you that you almost killed the part of your brain responsible for language comprehension, by trying to read that."

"Does anyone else regret having read the preview...
this is just... damn it...
and there are 3 more... does that mean AT LEAST three more weeks waiting... and reading that...
the screenshots are even "bad"... nothing new at all..."

"My eyes!"

"Blech... yeah, but don't blame Apolyton's inability to write anything or give any useful info on the QS/IG guys.
By all rights, the guy who did the review really should be capable of expressing his thoughts more legibly than my little sister."

"My head hurts.
Anyway, I'm trying to reserve judgment on this preview, and justify the fact it has little new stuff, because it isn't for me; it's geared toward someone who's never played MoOs.
On the other hand, I'm not sure how many such newcomers will wade through these previews and come out the other side thinking much of MoO3. If it were me, I'd think, I can't even make it through the preview. This game must be boring and lame and no fun."

"EDITOR!!!!
We need an editor over here, STAT!
Ouch, ouch, ouch. This is worse than the last one... basic grammar mistakes hurt more than misuse of big words. GAH!!"

"From that review, the game sounds about as engaging as being a Tax accountant: lots of numbers, make things balance, win game, yawn."

Attacking the apolyton preveiws has now become a sport over on the IGMOO forum.....

Alexfrog · January 23, 2003, 15:08

May I make the suggestion that Dan write up the rest of the reveiws and post them in the next few days. I think that seeing an incomplete picture of the game is confusing people and/or turning people off because they cant figure out what the heck its all about. I think if they were to read the whole preveiw at once it would probably be fine, but reading half, being confused as to the big picture, and not being able to read more isnt that great.

Main_Brain · January 23, 2003, 15:10

hehe I call this phenomena 'Envy of the Damned'
:=)

Jack Frost · January 23, 2003, 15:13

my suggestion:

have dan give the game to someone who can write a review. . . please, before its too late.

Jack Frost · January 23, 2003, 15:16

i think the problem is dan got too much positive feedback and doesn't realize what he is producing is a flaming pile of ****.

If -everyone- bashes him on this forum then maybe we will see reform.

niteshade6 · January 23, 2003, 15:21

Actualy I think the issue is more that people on this board are afraid of insulting Dan so they tend to be nicer. They aren't attacking it on the other forum just to attack it, they don't attack other previews there only this one. You can't tell me you think this preview was well written.

In Dan's defence though at least he did put alot of effort into the preview, and it's pretty obvious that English is not his native language so maybe we shouldn't be too harsh on him.

Alexfrog · January 23, 2003, 15:29

They have attacked all the preveiws over at IGMOO.

The gamespy preveiw was attacked a lot.

The wargamer preveiw was the most supported, and only had small attacks. So that was the most successful.

niteshade6 · January 23, 2003, 15:33

I've never seen a preview attacked like this one though. Usualy there is some debate, and some people defending it. Here everyone just agrees that it's awful.

I also notice that you haven't made any attempt to defend the preview. You simply comment that everyone is attacking it.

Alexfrog · January 23, 2003, 15:45

http://www.ina-community.com/forums/...hreadid=254648

Its painful...

I feel I should point out things I liked in the preveiw.

1) I like that he gave us the audi for the intro scene

2) I liked that he gave some explanation of the numbers on the main screen like farming, mining and so on. Especially that if your food excess is not sufficcient, your pop. growth slows, and if you have insufficient minerals, you production decreases. (I would have liked more deatils about how he got those bonus RPs though...and exactly how this 'manufacturing ability and research abiity" transfers to production points and research points

3) I liked that he talked about the oclonization option ,where you have the AI autocolonize for you. Thats cool. Also how he talked about the different ways to have a colony try to build itself up (specialized, balanced, etc). And how he tried to point out advantages/disadvantages

4) I liked how he said it was a mistake to turn the oppressometer all the way down and not build a spy network....though more detail wouldve been good, its probably coming later.

5) I liked the info on the finances / taxes

6) I liked the galaxy map screenshots, and wouldve liked more detail on those. (probably coming later)

I did feel that many of the screenshots merely showed stuff he had just explained, and were unnecessary, and couldve been replaced by other stuff.

DavesWorld · January 23, 2003, 15:53

Describing screens step by laborious step isn't a review or preview. Screenshots do what you've taken 6x3 screenpages to accomplish.

Please

Please

P-L-E-A-S-E

In part four, stop describing what you see when you sit at your computer looking at the screen and start describing how the game plays. Here are some questions that might help you order your thoughts along this line:

* How did you start your empire?
* How did you set your various sliders and empire management decision points, and what happened?
* When you made modifications (initally and ongoing), what did you adjust and why? What happened when you did?
* Does the game play the same when you have one colony (start) vs after you've settled in (do you change any management decisions in either event, and again WHY)?
* How does auto colonization work? Did you like what it did or not? Did you like it better or worse than manual colonization?
* Ship design, did you auto or manual? How did it go? What changes did you make as you learned about ship design from combat encounters?
* How does research progress, and did you adapt any of your play strategies to how research does function? Did you focus or spread your research efforts (for either, why?)
* Combat. Who were your galactic neighbors? Did you get attacked or attack them? Why? How did it go? What changes and alterations to your play did you make following these initial encounters? What about new games, did they start better after your lessons in the earlier games?

Just, please, please, talk about the game. Keep attaching screenshots, reference them in your text, and DISCUSS the game. Folks will love you. Just that easy.

darcy · January 23, 2003, 15:58

In my experience writers who ask for "comments" don't want to hear the truth. You see, the truth hurts sometimes. Writing style is a very personal issue; unless you really, really want to improve your skills, you are not prepared to listen to honest feedback, as it might easily hurt your feelings and your self-esteem.

Writers who do want to improve usually say so very openly, deliberately asking not to be spared. If such a request is missing, the general consensus is not to get personal.

That said, I will keep my comment superficial and polite:

I'm looking forward to the next part.

kalbear · January 23, 2003, 15:59

I was happy about this preview if only because of the audio clip, which makes me want this game and want to see the harvesters more and more. That really sets up the game, in my mind - it seems more and more likely that the main 'plot' is all about the Ithkul.

And that's damn cool.

Also, I like that the story elements are in the (for lack of a better term) civilopedia. That was the first time I had seen the encyclopedia at all, and it looks pretty nice.

Finally, I liked the hinting of 'oops, I screwed up' - though I think that it would have been better suited to say how you screwed up now, and save the other details for later.

Oh yeah, for those of you who are playing at home - the strat guide has covered most of this stuff. From what I've seen so far, there's absolutely nothing changed from this preview and the strat guide info. Therefore, it seems as if the strat guide is likely still very accurate when it comes to details.

niteshade6 · January 23, 2003, 16:02

I didn't mind the content so much as the writing. The content was kind of dry, but at least there was some new stuff there. The writing unfortunately makes the last preview look like shakespeare. But as I said, Dan probably is still learning English.

If you haven't already, I do strongly recomend following alex frog's link. The discussion on the other forum is much more honest, and also quite amusing. There are also some good suggestions on how to condence the writing style to make it much more clear, although I get the sense the author isn't particularly open to criticism.

Jack Frost · January 23, 2003, 16:07

"I've never seen a preview attacked like this one though. Usualy there is some debate, and some people defending it."

Thats because it is the worst computer game preview ever written. I mean that in all seriousness. It is the worst ever written. It should be shown as a model of 'what not to do' to anyone planning on writing reviews/previews or anything aimed at the general public.

kalbear · January 23, 2003, 16:22

You've obviously never read some of Seanbaby's reviews of Nintendo Power reviewers. Those were far, FAR worse than this, especially since you paid for it. Or someone did.

Anyway, so long as there are more screenies and more things like sound clips - say something like, oh, I dunno, a ship combat movie next time - I'll be perfectly happy.

Kc7mxo · January 23, 2003, 16:33

I think that if you consider this to be just part 3 of a six part preview, then it's a pretty good preview.

The real problem is that the moo public is in general rather bored with previews. We're thouroughly saturated with them.

What I think we would all like, is an AAR of Dan's first game. That'd probably go over pretty well.

Calacorm · January 23, 2003, 16:34

My comment to Dan is for him to write more substance into the previews. You could have covered far more information on High Level Menus then you did in 6 pages.

My suggestion: since you seem to have a space restriction on the size of the preview try to stick to the facts and stay away from embellishment, tangents, and other ideas not relevant to the topic. This gives us Moo3 fans more Meat, if you will, to digest with our eyes, and it gives the new Moo3 fans a better and less confusing idea of the game. Assuming the grammar doesn't offend anyone

.
A Quick Example: The first few sentences in the second paragraph are a good example of what should be left out of the preview and replaced with Solid Game Information!
Keep in mind that I do not suggest changing style of writing but rather just keep that style and fact balance in check.

Your previews seem to be the only new news on Moo3 these days, and all fans will appreciate you making those previews the best they can be. (At least it should be new news; with in NDA limits of course

)

One final point to make is that MOO fans are on the red line with anticipation for this game and you’re the only preview in town that is coming to visit on a regular, yet long, 1-week basis. I think that fact alone is setting you up for Flak from the readers. You'll handle it though.

The Most for the Least - More Facts Less Cheese

etoon · January 23, 2003, 16:35

Quote:

Hoard your treasury hostage from would-be financiers by selecting the 'Savings' option, or burn a whole in your imperial pocket by choosing to go the 'Spending' way.

You can either hoard your treasury by selecting the 'Savings' option, or you can hold your treasury hostage from would-be financiers by selecting the 'Savings' option. Picking either one is fine. I would suggest the first because it is shorter. The other problem with the sentence is that you used whole instead of hole. I just thought I'd point this out in case you make corrections.

niteshade6 · January 23, 2003, 16:49

"I think that if you consider this to be just part 3 of a six part preview, then it's a pretty good preview. "

I'm not quite sure how the fact that it's part 3 of 6 has any bearing on the writing quality.

MarkG · January 23, 2003, 17:00

Quote:

May I make the suggestion that Dan write up the rest of the reveiws and post them in the next few days.

would you sit down to read a 30-page preview, from start to finish?

Quote:

If -everyone- bashes him on this forum then maybe we will see reform.

how about a mob?

Quote:

The real problem is that the moo public is in general rather bored with previews.

not everyone has been on the moo forums for the last three years. if someone is bored of previews he should not read any (wow!)

mactbone · January 23, 2003, 17:30

Isn't Dan Canadian - implying English is his first language?

Anyways, the writing is the kind reserved for academics. It's the way I would write a dispassionate paper to a Prof. I don't think it's horrible and I think it's more the way a professional publication would like it. Most fans however are more interested in Dan telling them all the little details and how to play the game - which are both more informal and not part of previews.

Also, I took a review writing course and the big thing was to "SHOW" everything. Your audience isn't right next to you watching you point out all the cool things - it can't even see what you're seeing, so by describing those things he is following established guidelines.

Lastly, I want to remind everyone that Dan isn't getting monetary compensation AFAIK and so I wouldn't exactly be expecting the best preview ever.

Zero_Washu · January 23, 2003, 17:43

Lets be frank here.

First, the biggest problem with the "preview" is that the author hasn't played previous MOO games so he doesn't know what is important to the fans of the series.

Combined with his incessant need to over-word every single possible item, it is enough to drive you batty. Want a perfect example of his failure to SHUT UP ALREADY?

Page six, "BRIEFLY BACK TO THE 'MAIN SCREEN`: A SUGGESTION "

What part of BRIEFLY doesn't he understand?

That basically sums it up, he isn't to the point. He drones on and on about something that the screenshots describe quicker.

Its almost as if he is trying to make some artificial word count, or worse yet, ad count.

As for the tone expressed here compared to IGMOO, that was easy to figure out.

Kc7mxo · January 23, 2003, 17:50

Quote:

not everyone has been on the moo forums for the last three years. if someone is bored of previews he should not read any (wow!)

Ahh, but they are also desperate for content. . .

In the same way, I'm sure many people have started playing moo2 again. I'm simply putting forward an opinion as to why people have become so critical of any and all previews lately.

niteshade6 · January 23, 2003, 18:21

"Isn't Dan Canadian - implying English is his first language?"

Not necesarily. Some parts of Canada speak French as their primary language. I simply refuse to believe that anybody with English as their primary language could write as badly as that. Also remember that just because you live in Canada doesn't mean you were born here. Certainly there are quite a few people living in America who don't speak English as their primary language.

"Anyways, the writing is the kind reserved for academics. "

Well.....academics usualy write extremely well, even if their writing tends to be dry. So I have a hard time comparing it to academic writing.

"Lastly, I want to remind everyone that Dan isn't getting monetary compensation AFAIK and so I wouldn't exactly be expecting the best preview ever."

Well he did get an early copy of MoO3 in exhange for writing the review. I'm sure there are thousands of people who would have loved to be in his shoes. So it's not like he wasn't compensated for it.

Darkrenown · January 23, 2003, 18:47

Quote:

Originally posted by Iron Giant
The game looks to be about as interesting as doing your taxes in a glorified spreadsheet.

Where is the combat? Where are the grand battles that allow me to force my will on other races?

I don't get any feel for the scope of this game.

Am I an accountant trying to balance my company books or the Leader of a Galactic Empire?

I can see why you would think that from reading these previews but Moo3 has plenty of fleet battles, ground combat and big honking explosions.

@ Dan Q: Thanks for the screenshots and sound clip but that was a horribly written preview

Jack Frost · January 23, 2003, 18:53

Ok.

I re-read the third installment of the preview after I've had my coffee and really woken up. This is my take on it:

Its actually better then the second. Although it is painfully dry, and poorly written, it IS more informative. I thought the regional zoning thing was -really- interesting, it sort of seems to be basicly a "min-maxer" slider. Either play balanced, or play to an extreme. It sounds cool...

"If your race is completely dependent on others for support in some societal aspect, or otherwise could not make-up the loss domestically"

so you can import/export food or minerals from other races?

The bottom line problems with this preview are two.

A) I was mistaken in thinking a 'lack of content' was the problem, as the real problem is the perspective of the reviewer. Instead of focusing on the game itself, and the UI as something one uses to manipulate the game, he believes that the UI is the game. So by describing each menu in isolation he believes that he is telling the player everything that they can do in the game.

Its the same as the races and modifiers in the first couple previews, it believes that by saying what stat changes each thing gives and offering charts and **** you are communicating to the reader the extent by which you can create a custom race.

This is not true.

B) the style is bad.

The answer and solution to problem A is difficult, and I believe that it comes down to this:

Dan didn't have the time, or choose to devote the time required to really answer the questions we would want answered. In other words, I want to know how every decision would affect game play, how every slider effects the AI, and a mass of details about the range of control you as a player have on your empire in realistic terms. But answering that question would probably require a good number of games, and therefore a great deal of time. It doesn't sound like he has the time to spend really playing, really finding the boundries, and really giving us insight into the game. So what we end up getting is a guided tour through the screen shots.

This can't be helped unless Dan gives the preview to someone else, which at this point won't happen.

FORTIONATLY the answer to problem B is more easily solved:

Have dan hand off a copy of his preview to someone else a couple days before it needs to go up. This person could review and edit it, or simply offer suggestions.

That person would check for glaring errors, and also help with the removal of unnessecary phrases (i wont bother pasting one, we all know they are all over).

This would result in a better more readable preview.

So please, try to get someone to do editing for you. Explain to them the complaints of the community, and have them remove the excess, and simplify the wording.