CTP PBEM Challenge Ladder -- May 2003

[TheBirdMan]

Continued from here: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...00#post2006700

Solver: Pls top the thread and add the link to the old thread.

[Mathemagician]

@solver
a link to this thread at the end of the last one would also be nice ;-)

turns sent to everyone who i had a turn from.

[Solver]

OK, you already have the link to the old thread here...

Topped and added link to end of old thread.

[Mathemagician]

"Cypriotic Conflict" - turn 1 sent to david42one

he's playing the greeks, i am the turkish
for you non-europeans:
cyprus is a small island in the mediterranean sea that was invaded by the turkish in the 1970s i think, and since then is half turkish, half greek and both parties dont exactly like each other..
hence the name

[quinns]

Edit: Nevermind

[quinns]

Call to Power -- PBEM Challenge Ladder

As of: 3-FEB-2004

RNK NAME................BAID.......WIN.....LOSS....NAT
--------------------------------------------------------
01. berXpert............Deity........9........1....MEX
02. quinns..............Deity........7........3....USA
03. hatschy.............Deity........4........0....AUT
04. david42one..........Deity........6........3....USA
05. checkMate...........Deity........6........2....USA
06. TheBirdMan..........Deity........3........9....DEN
07. blackice............Deity........1........0....CAN
08. Mathemagician.......Deity........6........6....GER
09. Milamber............Deity........3........2....USA
10. ricketyclik.........Deity........1.......12....AUS
11. Nimrod..............Deity........1........1....USA
12. Dimytes.............Deity........2........0....SWE
13. Troll...............Deity........0........2....USA
14. Lung................Deity........0........1....AUS
15. Protoss72000........Deity........-........-....USA
16. mpteach.............Deity........-........-....USA
17. Keygen..............Deity........-........-....GRC
18. Frozzy..............Emperor......0........1....NZL
19. Mieciofok...........Emperor......0........1....POL
20. Pave................Prince.......-........-....FIN



Notes:
Note 1: BAID represents the highest CTP solo artificial intelligence level ever defeated -- BEST ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE DEFEAT (without cheating, of course). This gives a rough indication of the player's level, and initially places players on the ladder somewhat fairly.

Note 2: Players appear on the ladder when they show an interest in being on the ladder -- first, in their BAID level and then in the order that they joined the CTP PBEM Challenge Ladder.

Note 3: Ladder positions change when a player lower on the ladder defeats a player higher on the ladder. When a lower ladder player defeats a higher ladder player:
1) the lower player takes over the ladder position of the higher player;
2) the higher player moves down one slot on the ladder;
3) the lower player attains the BAID level of the higher player (if different).

Note 4: There is no cheating or bug exploits allowed in CTP PBEM Challenges. Anyone caught cheating will be permanently banned from the CTP PBEM Challenge Ladder.

Note 5: You may challenge any player up to three slots above your current position. If the person challenged dodges the challenge continually with no good reason, then the one challenged may lose one or more positions on the ladder.

Note 6: You may also change positions on the ladder by defeating the "computer players" in a solo match at a difficulty level higher than you currently have. (Please avoid too many of these BAID types of changes, though.)

Note 7: In PBEM Challenges, a player wins in the normal manner, but also wins if the player achieves a Power Graph (PG) rating four times their opponent's graph (4xPG), beyond the 20 turn mark, (except in the Dual-Duel format where it is recommended to use the standard victory conditions only -- see note 8).

Note 8: The Dual-Duel format makes for a fair game. It completely equalizes the starting positions -- Two games started simultaneously on the same randomized map with starting positions swapped. First one to win a game wins the match. Use this format if you wish. If you do use this dual-duel format, it is recommended that you do NOT use the 4XPG (mentioned in note 7 above), victory condition because one civilization may have a much better starting position.

Note 9: Any player not responding to a direct challenge within two weeks will be dropped from the ladder. For example, CheckMate has challenged three players, Milamber (who he is already playing and so doesn't count as a challenge), Taladas and Frozzy. If Taladas and Frozzy do not respond to CheckMate's challenge within two weeks from the date of his challenge here on this thread, then they will be dropped from the ladder. Note that a "response" doesn't mean acceptance of the challenge. The challenged player may have a good excuse. He or she must simply must "respond" here on this thread. If the challenged player continually dodges the challenger(s) with excuses, then that challenged player may drop down the ladder depending upon the circumstances.

Note 10: Draws do not count for either a win or a loss for either player.


CTP PBEM Challenge Matches:
*1. Chlg 1 quinns def. TheBirdMan (4xPG); Started Apr-2002 -- Finished Aug-2002; Turns 130.
*2. Chlg 2 quinns def. berXpert (Resigned); Started Jun-2002 -- Finished Sep-2002; Turns 109.
*3. Chlg 3 quinns def. TheBirdMan (Resigned); Started Jul-2002 -- Finished Dec-2002; Turns 193.
*4. Chlg 4 berXpert def. TheBirdMan (Resigned); Started Jul-2002 -- Finished Oct-2002; Turns 110 .
*5. Chlg 5 quinns def. Lung (4xPG); Started Aug-2002 -- Finished Nov-2002; Turns 77.
6. Chlg 6 TheBirdMan vs. Lung; Started Aug-2002 -- In progress.
#7. Chlg 7 **CANCELLED**.
*8. Chlg 8 ricketyclik def. Frozzy; Started Aug-2002 -- Finished Jul-2003; Turns 72.
*9. Chlg 9 berXpert def. ricketyclik (4xPG); Started Sep-2002 -- Finished Nov-2002; Turns 88.
*10. Chlg 10 David42one def. phoenixcager; Started Sep-2002 -- Finished Oct-2002.
11. Chlg 11 hatschy vs. FlameFlash; Started Sep-2002 -- In progress.
12. Chlg 12 Lunger75 vs. geoffrey arnold; Started Sep-2002 -- In progress.
*13. Chlg 13 berXpert def. Milamber (Resigned); Started Sep-2002 -- Finished Oct-2002; Turns 54.
*14. Chlg 14 hatschy def. checkMate; Started Sep-2002 -- Finished Dec-2002.
*15. Chlg 15 hatschy def. Mathemagician ; Started Oct-2002 -- Finished Jan-2003; Turns 273.
*16. Chlg 16 Mathemagician def. geoffrey arnold; Started Oct-2002 -- Finished Nov-2002.
*17. Chlg 17 Paulno1 def. quinns (Dual-Duel format); Started Oct-2002 -- Finished Feb-2003; Turns 73.
#18. Chlg 18 ** CANCELLED **
19. Chlg 19 Hatschy vs. Frozzy; Started Nov-2002 -- In progress.
*20. Chlg 20 Mathemagician def. Taladas(Resigned); Started Nov-2002 -- Finished Nov-2002; Turns 126.
21. Chlg 21 lunger75 vs. FlameFlash; Started Oct-2002 -- In progress.
*22. Chlg 22 Mathemagician def. shaved_ape (4xPG); Started Oct-2002 -- Finished Dec-2002; Turns 106.
*23. Chlg 23 TheBirdMan def. ricketyclik (Dual-Duel format); Started Nov-2002 -- Finished Mar 2003.
*24. Chlg 24 quinns def. TheBirdMan (Dual-Duel format); Started Dec-2002 -- Finished Feb 2003; Turns 117.
*25. Chlg 25 TheBirdMan def. Mathemagician; Started Nov-2002 -- Finished Jul2003; Turns 236.
*26. Chlg 26 quinns def. Mathemagician (Resigned); Started Dec-2002 -- Finished Feb-2003; Turns 144.
*27. Chlg 27 berXpert def. David42one (Resigned); Started Dec-2002 -- Finished Jan-2003; Turns 37.
28. Chlg 28 ricketyclik vs Lunger75; Started Dec-2002 -- In progress.
29. Chlg 29 Milamber vs. geoffrey arnold; Started Dec-2002 -- In progress.
*30. Chlg 30 berXpert def. TheBirdMan (Resigned); Started Oct-2002 -- Finished Dec-2002; Turns 131.
*31. Chlg 31 checkMate def. Milamber; Started Dec-2002 -- Finished Feb-2003.
*32. Chlg 32 berXpert def. ChadCoffman (Resigned); Started Nov-2002 -- Finished Dec-2002; Turns 54.
*33. Chlg 33 berXpert def. TheBirdMan(4xPG); Started Dec-2002 -- Finished Feb 2003; Turns 102.
*34. Chlg 34 checkMate def. ricketyclik (Resigned); Started Jan-2003 -- Finished Mar 2003.
*35. Chlg 35 Nimrod def. Mathemagician; Started Jan-2003 -- Finished Mar-2003.
*36. Chlg 36 david42one def. checkMate (Resigned); Started Oct-2002 -- Finished Jan-2003.
*37. Chlg 37 Milamber def. david42one (Resigned); Started Oct-2002 -- Finished Jan-2003; Turns 165.
38. Chlg 38 checkMate vs. Mathemagician; Started Jan-2003 -- In progress.
*39. Chlg 39 Mathemagician def. ricketyclik (4xPG) ; Started Jan-2003 -- Finished Jun-2003; Turns 250.
40. Chlg 40 ricketyclik vs. hatschy; Started Feb-2003 -- In progress.
41. Chlg 41 Mieciofok vs. Mathemagician; Started Feb-2003 -- In progress.
*42. Chlg 42 hatschy def. TheBirdMan; Started Feb-2003 -- Finished Jul-2003.
*43. Chlg 43 Mathemagician def. david42one(Resigned); Started Nov-2002 -- Finished Feb-2003
*44. Chlg 44 berXpert def. quinns (Resigned) (Dual-Duel format); Started Feb-2003 -- Finished Jun-2003; Turns 59.
45. Chlg 45 TheBirdMan vs. Mieciofok; Started Feb-2003 -- In progress.
*46. Chlg 46 TheBirdMan def. ricketyclik (ALP); Started Mar 2003 -- Finished Nov-2003; Turns 332.
*47. Chlg 47 checkMate def. Mieciofok; Started Jan-2003 -- Finished Mar-2003.
48. Chlg 48 Pave vs. ricketyclik; Started Mar-2003 -- In progress.
*49. Chlg 49 david42one def. ricketyclik (4xPG); Started Mar-2003 -- Finished Apr-2003; Turns 122.
50. Chlg 50 checkMate vs. Mieciofok; Started Mar-2003 -- In progress.
*51. Chlg 51 Milamber def. ricketyclik; Started Apr-2003 -- Finished July 2003; Turns 132.
*52. Chlg 52 david42one def. TheBirdMan; Started Apr-2003 -- Finished Aug-2003.
*53. Chlg 53 checkMate def. TheBirdMan (Resigned); Started Apr-2003 -- Finished Sep-2003; Turns 199.
*54. Chlg 54 checkMate def. Nimrod; Started Apr-2003 -- Finished Nov-2003.
*55. Chlg 55 checkMate def. ricketyclik (Resigned); Started Apr-2003 -- Finished Oct-2003; Turns 243.
*56. Chlg 56 blackice def. checkMate; Started Apr-2003 -- Finished Aug-2003.
57. Chlg 57 Azrael vs. TheBirdMan; Started Jan-2003 -- In progress.
*58. Chlg 58 david42one def. ricketyclik; Started Apr-2003 -- Finished May-2003
*59. Chlg 59 quinns def. Mathemagician (Resigned); Started May-2003 -- Finished Jul-2003; Turns 132.
*60. Chlg 60 hatschy def. Mathemagician (Resigned); Started May-2003 -- Finished Sep-2003; Turns 215.
*61. Chlg 61 berXpert def. quinns (Resigned); Started Jun-2003 -- Finished Jun-2003; Turns 23.
*62. Chlg 62 Mathemagician def. ricketyclik (PG At End); Started Jun-2003 -- Finished Oct 2003.
63. Chlg 63 Mathemagician vs. TheBirdMan; Started Jul-2003 -- In progress.
64. Chlg 64 hatschy vs. david42one; Started Jul-2003 -- In progress.
65. Chlg 65 Frozzy vs ricketyclik; Started Jul-2003 -- In progress.
*66. Chlg 66 berXpert vs. quinns (Draw); Started Jun-2003 -- Finished Oct-2003; Turns 97.
*67. Chlg 67 Milamber def. ricketyclik (Resigned); Started Jul-2003 -- -- Finished Jan-2004; Turns 192.
*68. Chlg 68 Dimytes def. Troll (Resigned); Started Sep-2003 -- Finished Nov-2003.
*69. Chlg 69 david42one def. ricketyclik (4xPG); Started May-2003 -- Finished Sep-2003; Turns 229.
70. Chlg 70 Protoss72000 vs. ricketyclik; Started Oct-2003 -- In progress.
71. Chlg 71 checkMate vs. quinns (dual-duel format); Started Nov-2003 -- In progress.
72. Chlg 72 checkMate vs. Nimrod; Started Nov-2003 -- In progress.
73. Chlg 73 Mathemagician vs. Dimytes; Started Nov-2003 -- In progress.
74. Chlg 74 Troll vs. mpteach; Started Dec-2003 -- In progress.
*75. Chlg 75 Dimytes def. Troll (Resigned); Started Nov-2003 -- Finished Dec-2003; Turns 135.
76. Chlg 76 Dimytes vs. ricketyclik; Started Jan-2004 -- In progress.
77. Chlg 77 Dimytes vs. Milamber; Started Jan-2004 -- In progress.
78. Chlg 78 Keygen vs. blackice; Started Feb-2004 -- In progress.
79. Chlg 79 ricketyclik vs. Milamber; Started Jan-2004 -- In progress.
80. Chlg 80 Nimrod vs. Dimytes; Started Nov 2003 -- In progress.


* means match completed.
# means match cancelled.

Standard Challenge Match Settings:
(Players should agree which settings to use. These are the standard settings, but can be changed to suit the wishes of the players.)

Map size: Huge -- Randomized
Difficulty: Emperor
Barbarians: Ruins Only
Ruins: Off Limits -- No Entry (to disable ruins on initial random map -- modify ctp_data/default/gamedata/const.txt file -- set RUINS_CHANCE_PER_BOX from 1.0 to 0.0)
Wonders: No Wonders Allowed
Earth World
Bloodlust Off
Pollution On
Number of Civilizations: 4
(2 Human Players, 2 Computer Players)
Map:
Wet/Dry 50%
Warm/Cold 50%
Ocean/Land 50%
Island/Continent 50%
Uniform/Diverse 50%
Few/Many Goods 50%
One Settler (default)
100 Gold (default)

[ricketyclik]

David42One soundly defeated ricetyclik in our second challenge match, which began in April!

D42O kindly offered to give me a training match :O but I have decided that I will doggedly keep trying and have challenged him again, our 3rd if it goes ahead.

Congratulations David42One, well played

[quinns]

Updated with David's win. Congrats again, David421.

Rickety... You need to get some W's under your belt --- 0 and 5 now! And you still hold on to the number 7 position!! Well done.

[ricketyclik]

Originally posted by quinns

Rickety... You need to get some W's under your belt --- 0 and 5 now! And you still hold on to the number 7 position!! Well done.

Hey! Are you denigrating the high amount of skill showed in getting onto this ladder relatively early?

[Mathemagician]

Originally posted by ricketyclik


Hey! Are you denigrating the high amount of skill showed in getting onto this ladder relatively early?

DAMN am i unskilled.

[david42one]

Originally posted by ricketyclik
D42O kindly offered to give me a training match :O but I have decided that I will doggedly keep trying and have challenged him again, our 3rd if it goes ahead.

Hehe, when you say it like that it does sound somewhat patronising. My apologies. I do like having training matches with people, it's a good way for both players to improve.

[Mathemagician]

Originally posted by david42one


Hehe, when you say it like that it does sound somewhat patronising. My apologies. I do like having training matches with people, it's a good way for both players to improve.

may i ask how you do the training in a training match ?
i suppose opening the other's turn is allowed, but its too much work to do it every turn...

[david42one]

Originally posted by Mathemagician


may i ask how you do the training in a training match ?
i suppose opening the other's turn is allowed, but its too much work to do it every turn...

Nothing so structured, and each training match is different. Yes opening each others turn is allowed, and anything else that will help. All that matters is that you start the game with the goal of both players improving their play, as opposed to seeing who will win.

[ricketyclik]

Originally posted by Mathemagician


DAMN am i unskilled.

Au contraire, for was it not you who started this ladder, and thus began at the top?

[Mathemagician]

Originally posted by ricketyclik


Au contraire, for was it not you who started this ladder, and thus began at the top?

not exactly.
that was quinns.

[ricketyclik]

Ah yes. Of course. You are Mathemagician, not Quinns

Then yes, you have showed a severe lack of skill in this area

[Mathemagician]

Status Report from my games:
enjoy

Me vs. David42one - turn 10
"Cypriotic Conflict"

my "Turkish" have already met his "Greek" warriors. the other side seems to be ready for war, while my warriors still wait for a potential greek provocation before being put to red alert.
it seems the world is rather small and still claimed by wilderness, with a large variety of animal population prospering in the lush forests.

Me vs. ricketyclik - turn 71

my fierce "Dornheimers" are fighting off a horde of barbarian and semi-civilized tribes, which are obviously viewing our race as their private slave ressource.
some radical groups in my people have already adopted a similar attitude and are now in turn enslaving this scum of slavers. the government doesnt yet see a reason to stop this behaviour, as 'guest workers' are very welcome in our country.
also, it seems like some of these so-called "civilzations" are preparing a major military strike against us. they surprised us in our northern sparsely colonized lands with a large army, but enforcements are underway from the south.

rumors fly of a more civilized nation called the "Australians" somewhere further off. we are hoping for a more peaceful contact one day with them.
the Australians have recently finished a large religiously dedicated sanctiuary which travellers refer to as "The Ramayana".
my folk however, is more focusing on science and non-religious ethics, prospering still from the already 100s of years old "Philosopher's Stone" which my wise ancestors devised and which is now in my custody.

Me vs. checkMate - turn 53

for a long time my "German" people have thought that they were alone on this world, except for some random barbarians.
but a while ago we discovered another somewhat civilised tribe which calls themselves "Scottish".
recently some of my troops also made first contact with a race called "Americans" whose leader immediately agreed to a preace treaty with us. yet, strangely, as soon as our treaty was signed, emissaries of the americans offered the same treaty again.
whether this was a strange tradition of this folk or a simultaneous plan which timely overlapped with ours, we cannot say so far.
not wanting to insult this interesting new people we agreed a second time.
future will show if the cultural differences are too severe or if our mutual interest lies in peace.

Me vs. Mieciofok - turn 31

my "Dornheimer" people seem to be alone on this wide world yet. but our mystics tell us from many other "parallel", as they call it, worlds. they say in none of these worlds was one nation ever alone, so i trust my wise advisors when they predict encountering another race sooner or later.

Me vs. BirdMan - turn 170+

the very far evolved "Dornheimer" are a very rich and proud people. they have already built a series of technological masterpieces which are rightly called 'Wonders' by the more primitive races surrounding us.
for example, we constructed a complex system of globally linked calculating machines called "The Internet". we also control a number of satellites which provide our intelligence service with vital information about what is going on around us.

with most of the other races, we have active peace treaties and dont expect much trouble. they seem to be very loyal vassals in our quest for world domination as the only remaining superpower.
only the "Vikings" are not willing to accept our superiority yet, but we will teach them their place in the world by sanctions, stupid speeches before the world public, or if has to be, by war; justified of course.
although we already have active war status now, except for a few incidences, the situation seems to be rather mild.

[quinns]

[Mathemagician]

Originally posted by quinns

and you're sure, quinns, you want to miss out on the opportunity to be part of these interesting little stories ?

[quinns]

What makes you think that I was smiling at your stories, Math? Sometimes I just smile for no reason at all... Kind of like a blithering idiot

[Mathemagician]

Originally posted by quinns
What makes you think that I was smiling at your stories, Math? Sometimes I just smile for no reason at all... Kind of like a blithering idiot

yeah of course !
how could that escape me ...

[quinns]

Okay Math -- if you are challenging me... I accept. My only two requests are that you do not use your Dornheimer custom civilization, and make no modifications (mods) to the standard CtP version 1.2 software. Every other setting can be changed to suit your wishes. Thanks!

[quinns]

* Double Posted *

[Mathemagician]

Originally posted by quinns
Okay Math -- if you are challenging me... I accept. My only two requests are that you do not use your Dornheimer custom civilization, and make no modifications (mods) to the standard CtP version 1.2 software. Every other setting can be changed to suit your wishes. Thanks!

well, i can use another civilisation if you like, but the text file with civs is already modified and im using it in the other challenge games too. i rarely have compatibility problems and i dont think that they are due to that change.
if that is okay for you, we have a date..er game.

also, i have installed the german version of CTP (no idea WHICH version for understandable reasons ). but it refuses to install 1.2 patch so i assume i have 1.2.

as for the other settings. choose what you like (except dual duel - maybe some time later ), but id prefer if we have no consecutive game seats, which in turn suggests that none of us has an early seat, so maybe 6 civs with seats 4 and 6, or 8 with 5 and 8.
this is, as an experienced player like you knows of course, because the early seats are far more likely to get a powerful start.

i prefer farm under city bug but i can understand if you refuse.
just tell me all chosen settings and other desires (gamewise!) with the first email.

looking forward to smashing you this time..

[quinns]

Okay Math, how is this then -- Standard settings with a change to 6 players instead of 4 ?

Map size: Huge -- Randomized
Difficulty: Emperor
Barbarians: Ruins Only
Ruins: Off Limits -- No Entry (to disable ruins on initial random map -- modify ctp_data/default/gamedata/const.txt file -- set RUINS_CHANCE_PER_BOX from 1.0 to 0.0)
Wonders: No Wonders Allowed
Earth World
Bloodlust Off
Pollution On
Number of Civilizations: 6
(2 Human Players (slots 4 and 6), 4 Computer Players)
Map:
Wet/Dry 50%
Warm/Cold 50%
Ocean/Land 50%
Island/Continent 50%
Uniform/Diverse 50%
Few/Many Goods 50%
One Settler (default)
100 Gold (default)

Let's not use the "Farm under city bug" just to try to conform to our "No bug usage" standard in Challenge Matches, (even though I agree that this particular bug is not that big of a deal one way or the other.)

Change the map settings if you wish...

[Mathemagician]

NO BUG USE ???

but its the very basic of my strategy it is !

alright, but i will change to donut world
i give myself seat 4 and you get 6. shouldnt be too much of a difference.
and i'll be the ... hm... some other random civilisation this time

okay.
game "American Love Stories" started with the above settings on a donut world.

Rainer the "Best Friend" of the Native Americans
vs.
Steve Quinn the Lucky Lover of the Inva... Americans

short put:
you're evil, i'm good !!

have a nice game !

[MILAMBER]

oh............. this challenge ought to be good.............

[quinns]

Sounds good Math! But if it is the essence of your strategy... Get down with your bad self and use your precious farm under city bug! I won't use it though Good luck, Mathemagician!

[blackice]

how smug I can not wait till I hit the Quinn zone

Like the Eagle flies I'm com'in straight at ya...

Well after I take a few hits and a few bruises, but I am there baby all over ya.

[Mathemagician]

Originally posted by quinns
Sounds good Math! But if it is the essence of your strategy... Get down with your bad self and use your precious farm under city bug! I won't use it though Good luck, Mathemagician!

nono. either its allowed or forbidden.
if you're too proud to use it i interpret it as forbidden.

its not the essence of my strategy, but i do think that it is very helpful and also that it isnt a real bug, but thats just me i see.

my (many ) single player games have shown that it makes a big difference with some map settings or starting positions respectively.

after all, for the concerned cities (which have a high percentage in some locations) it is an additional production bonus without an additional citizen. and that for the rest of the game..
not that bad in my eyes.