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Stefan Härtel
May 24, 2003, 06:01
Here's an interesting discovery I made. I have thought about this for long, but never took the time to try it out. Now I did.

It is common knowledge to all of us, that there are three domains:

Domain 0: Land. Units attack any other land units, as long as their attack value is 1, and they're not spies or trade units. They can take cities if they are anything but spy or trade units. They can attack any air units, even bombers, if they have the defining flag toggled. They can only move on land terrain.

Domain 1: Air. Units can cross any terrain, including ocean, without movement penalty. They disregard any ZoC's. They can attack any unit provided their attack value is at least one. They can attack bombers with the defining track toggled. They can't take cities, unless they are helicopters. Helicopters will not go out of fuel, but their health will eventually fail.

Domain 2: Sea. Units can attack other sea units, provided their attack value is at least 1. They can carry other units. They disregard any ZoC's. They can only move on ocean terrain. If submarine flag is toggled, they can only attack sea units, while if the flag isn't toggled, they can attack any unit, including bombers (if the defining flag is toggled). They cannot take cities. They can only be built by seaside cities.

Now, here's what's new. I tested this and it works!

Domain 3: Human submarine, or Flying Dutchman. They can move on sea and land terrain. In general, it works like a helicopter, with several striking differences. First, their health will not drop. Second, they cannot take cities, although they can attack sea and land units. If the trireme flag is toggled, they will perish if not on or near land terrain. When the submarine flag is toggled, they can only attack sea units, even though they can still move on land terrain. They disregard movement penalty and ZoC's. They don't take advantage from roads or railroads. They can't pillage. They can be fortified. They can act as settlers, but not as spies or merchants. They can be built by landlocked cities.

I haven't tested every possibility yet, so I can't say if it's a "settling sub" or stuff like that, but I figure that the mentioned things should be defining, and everything else should be clear.

Creating this unit is simple, just change the domain to 3, as below:

Testeinheit 2,nil, 3, 8.,1, 0a,1d, 2h,1f, 4,0, 7, nil, 000000000000000

[Edit: Grammar]

Eyn
May 24, 2003, 08:00
VERY interresting...

Can they carry units (land or air ?)

Mercator
May 24, 2003, 08:01
:hmmm: um... I thought that was common knowledge too?

There's even an SLeague design tip about it:
http://sleague.apolyton.net/Guides/sldt_domain_3.shtml

Stefan Härtel
May 24, 2003, 09:10
Oh :o
I didn't know that :o
I also didn't see such a unit in any scenario yet.

The ANZAC
May 24, 2003, 09:54
They make a brief appearance in Nemo's Second Front. :) Also I think somebody tested to see if they can hold other units and the answer was no IIRC :( Too bad, could have a lot of possibilities there.

Stefan Härtel
May 24, 2003, 10:23
Anyway, I think this thread may be useful to refresh people's memories on this; this will no doubt be important for the scenario I'm working on.

techumseh
May 24, 2003, 10:58
Well, some of the best discoveries have been lost and re-discovered. As Mercator points out, there is a SL tip on this that's been around for a while.

I wonder how many scenario designers, particularly new ones, are unaware of the treasure trove of info here and on the Cradle of Civilization site?

Stefan Härtel
May 24, 2003, 11:24
This is really weird, because I know the design tips. Well, I missed this one.

Dr. Nick
May 24, 2003, 13:30
Most interesting, considering Swordfishes and Super Etendards... :)

DarthVeda
May 24, 2003, 14:09
Um... You know domain 3 has been common knowledge for a very long time... what's "new" here?

Stefan Härtel
May 24, 2003, 14:25
Um... You know domain 3 has been common knowledge for a very long time... what's "new" here?

Yes, I noticed this after Mercator's, the ANZAC's and techumseh's posts, and I already apologized, I am sorry.

MagyarCrusader
May 24, 2003, 21:01
Cool Stefan! There are people who don't know this so it's good you've refreshed memories.

I wonder how many scenario designers, particularly new ones, are unaware of the treasure trove of info here and on the Cradle of Civilization site?
Cradle of what what? :confused:

techumseh
May 24, 2003, 23:49
Civilization! Why is this concept so difficult for Hungarians? :D http://apolyton.net/coc/

MagyarCrusader
May 25, 2003, 03:16
Oh I see now. The last time we dispatched our envoy to that location we encountered a vast desolation. We were unaware the web address had been amended. Forgive us, forgive us!

Panda
May 25, 2003, 06:52
D3 units should work really well in a space scenario.

Jimmywax
May 26, 2003, 04:09
Originally posted by The ANZAC
Also I think somebody tested to see if they can hold other units and the answer was no IIRC :( Too bad, could have a lot of possibilities there. Ya, I tried to include hovercraft in my very first attempt at a scenario (Cough! Vietnam, Cough!) and I think it made the game crash. :(

kobayashi
May 26, 2003, 08:52
why the super long description, most people just think of it as a domain 1 (air) unit with infinite range.

Henrik
May 26, 2003, 09:04
More like a helicopter with infinite range...

I was under the presumption that such units could conquer cities though, are you sure they can't?

Mercator
May 26, 2003, 11:12
pretty sure... I tested a little saturday (mostly to see how the AI uses them), but they definitely can't take cities.

And helicopters are domain 1 too... :p

Elok
May 27, 2003, 13:21
Probably the biggest use for D3s(original credit goes to a guy called "Darth Spoot," BTW) lies in their infinite range and immunity to classification, so they don't stop moving every time they enter a city or carrier; ignore city walls, SDI, SAMS and Coastal Fortresses; can smack AEGIS cruisers with impunity(I think); aren't made auto-veteran by any improvement, and generally let you make a whole separate class of air unit. I'm making the Airships in my FF scenario into D3s, assuming I ever get my lazy butt in gear doing all the illustrations. Airships are *hard* to draw...