Possible new units

[SMIFFGIG]

Ok this is just thoughts, i thought that Modded ctp2 had all the units it ever needed but now with the possibility of converting them from Civ3 it just boggles me.


Nice additional units for CtP2

Zeppelin [/B]
I think zeppelin, blimp, montgolfiere or whatever you want to call it is a good idea, as a very weak and slow (slow as in moves say 2 squares at a time or whatever) unit that can only attack ground units possibly a UU? However it will be the first flying unit available and will be around way before the other air units. This will make it a very handy unit of its time *possibly historically incorrect and unrealistic

Alpine Troops
Would be nice to have Alpine Troops like Civ2 (are they in civ3 i cant remeber) they would be really good movement for snow terrain and really good attack and defence and on other terrain they are pretty crap or tottaly crap as this makes sense (hence the name alpine troops) they could be the ultimate infantry unit on snow terrain.

Fanatic
Like in Civ2 unique to a fundementalist government or whatever may apply. This would be a cool unit (i mean Theocracy get a unit, facism get a unit why not Fundamentalism?)

Partisan
I mean there is a partisan code which is class but no specific partisan unit. MM2 (Medieval Mod 2) uses the old CtP1 spy sprite which is kinda undestandable as it acts like a spy. But what im talking about is one that attacks lets say a animated sprite version of the Civ2 partisan

Camel Rider
With Pedrunns trade system http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=62425 this would be a great unit. If there where a camel trade good (as in Martin's GoodMod) As throughout history there have been civilizations that have used alternatives to horses as in there particular part of the world they did not have horses. Camel riders would be perfect they would require the camel trade good (as horse units will need the horse trade good) and the sprite could be a converted Age of Empires 2 unit (if this would look good) either way there should be a camel rider unit and maybe other camel units (camel bowman or whatever) that should be included.

Bi-Plane
There is no bi-plane in ctp2, the fact that these where the first planes and single winged planes where at one time thought impossible to work. I think these would be rather important. Either as an early spy plane (could fly low out of radar too) or probably better as an early attack plane. Anyone remember that old beta screenie of Civ3 (this was when i was interested in that crap, before it came out) there was a yellow bi-plane in one of the shots (strangly there where AA TI's too) anyway in the final there wasnt any bi-planes in civ3 either to the best of my knowledge.... strange

Early tank
There are no early tanks in ctp2, as soon as you get the technology to build tanks your instantly in 70's technology with what looks to be an abrams tank.... This isnt right, progression is what we need. What about the very first tanks (ok not the armoured passenger car thingies) the ones just after that. With the tracks going all the way around the chasis. I think these would be very good in ctp2.



Can anyone think of anymore to add to this list ? Units they would like to see? Units you thought should have been in the game anyway? Units that you think should be upgraded versions of the current eg. Catapult > Cannon > Artillery etc.

[gigapimp3001]

i rather liked the partisan/guerilla units in civ2. It added a modern element of rebellion and idealy made it harder to invade a modern city (which compared to real life invasions dealing with suicide bombers, media subversion, public opinion etc add a whole new enjoyable element to the civ game.)

[Turambar]

I'm working on leader units that upgrade the more they fight and also can "think" for themselves to some degree.

I've an early working version so far but there's alot more work to do on it (getting the dam AI to only use one per stack etc) and the other "areas" of my "mod" :).

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

well i don't know about those spinning zeppelins (never got civ3 and so never looked at mods) but i really would like to see early aviation units like montgolfieres (which couldn't do anything but act as a really bad version of spy planes and maybe transport one small unit) and later zeppelins as either very early air transport unit or as a weak bomber

[Caranorn]

The Zeppelin was not such a bad bomber, just rather brittle and slow. They had incredible range for their day and were not all that easy to intercept and shoot down (I think the first Zeppelin shot down was actually bombed by anotehr plane;)

For any scenario or mod wishing to seriously treat the WWI era a Zeppelin would be very important.

For the regular Civ3 units, I think we'll get all converted eventually. After that the good fanmade Civ3 units and maybe material from other games too. From my point of view at least, there are still a lot of sprites needed for CTP2.

Marc aka Caran...

[Locutus]

Originally posted by Zaphod Beeblebrox
montgolfieres
The English word for it is (hot air) balloon ;)

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

yep, but montgolfiere just has this stylish jules verne sound to me:D

[Immortal Wombat]

Is it a direct translation? I always assumed a Mongolfiere was a Frenchy type of hot air balloon.

[SMIFFGIG]

Zeppelin
I think zeppelin, blimp, montgolfiere or whatever you want to call it is a good idea, as a very weak and slow (slow as in moves say 2 squares at a time or whatever) unit that can only attack ground units possibly a UU? However it will be the first flying unit available and will be around way before the other air units. This will make it a very handy unit of its time

Alpine Troops
Would be nice to have Alpine Troops like Civ2 (are they in civ3 i cant remeber) they would be really good movement for snow terrain and really good attack and defence and on other terrain they are pretty crap or tottaly crap as this makes sense (hence the name alpine troops) they could be the ultimate infantry unit on snow terrain.

What do u think? Got any other unit ideas?

Note: ill be updating the list as soon as more suggestions are added ;) hopefully we can gather quite a big list here

[Locutus]

Originally posted by Immortal Wombat
Mongolfiere
A brave Mongol? :confused: :lol:

Well, I'm by no means an expert but as far as I know they're synonyms. Personally I think Montgolfiere is a very artificial term myself, deliberately designed to sound fancier than it is, like calling a Tank a Char d'Assaut- but I guess that's just my personal opinion then and not universally shared...

[Immortal Wombat]

t

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Originally posted by Locutus

A brave Mongol? :confused: :lol:

...

lol nice typo i did

actually to sort it out:
with zeppelins i mean motorpowered zeppelins like in the wwI era

with montgolfieres i mean the 18century (?) hot ballons first invented by the french brothers montgolfiere ( hence the name) driven by the winds and only capable of transporting a one/fewpersons unit like a diplomat, an explorer or a london dude who did a silly bet on his way to italy with only 70 somewhat days left for a long journey about a x-wrapped map.

hey, maybe thats an idea for a new wonder?

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

well to other new units... i guess even the best modders/sliccers here around won't be able to teach the game the idea of supply lines?

would be fun blowing the supply ships with ammo and fuel instead the tankarmy in africa though

[Immortal Wombat]

feat of wonder. round the world in 80 turns

[Caranorn]

Yep, no accurate lines of supply. No realistic terrain. No realistic combat. Long list of no's.

Still we'll have to live with it, CTP2 is definitelly better then Civ3 (tried to play it twice during the week before I got that sprite script to work, Civ3 makes my list for one of the most boring games ever).

Mountain (and light) troops by the way are generally crack forces, they just lack some of the heavier equipment of other units. I'm not sure they could be translated into CTP2. Combat wise they might end up with an average shock value, low to no fire and rather high defense. Their size should also be such that they can be easily air or sea lifted. In general their values I expect should be very similar to that of paratroopers (not as good on attack but better defenders).

Marc aka Caran...

[SMIFFGIG]

BUMP


UPDATE

[Caranorn]

I have lately come to the conclusion that the camel has probably been overrated in recent games. Yes, in ancient battles quite a few camels were mentionned, but it is not clear whether those were mounts or just transports. Meharists always seem to have been a relative minority within their armies. Still, such a unit for CTP2 might be interesting (if only we had a movement type desert or such). An AOK camel rider could be used indeed (I finally went and fetched that program to open AOK files and get a look at the graphics, they ain't ideal for CTP but should work).

For the rest, I can think of a lot of units still missing, but I generally don't think in terms of 6000+ year games but only 5-5500 years (till renaissance, as I find CTP breaks beyond that). A bunch of important ancient, classic and medieval types of units are still missing from the general game (but some scenarios and mods have them in one way or another, not always with appropriate sprites).

Till now, sprites has been the main limiting factor to unit creation. I hope we'll have a hundred or so fresh sprites in 6 months at the latest (some will be very similar to CTP and CTP2 sprites though). I definitelly plan to get some units from AOK (unfortunatelly I can't extract graphics from my Mac version including TC, so only AOK from my part) in addition to Civ3.

Marc aka Caran...

[Locutus]

Camels *were* indeed important combat units, not as important as horses but certainly not insignificant either. And not just in ancient times but in recent times as well. Even as late as in WWII gunmen on camels were used, mainly in Ethiopia/Eritrea/Somalia. But slightly longer ago, the British will surely remember the bloodbath of Khartoum - Sudani and other North African peoples used Camelry as combat units in colonial times. In older times, mainly the <a href="http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/gabrmetz/gabr0016.htm" target="_blank">Arabs</a> but also the Sudani, Somali, Ethiopians, Dervish, Egyptians, Mamelukes and Persians are known to have used Camels in combat. Camels would be best suitable as an Arab Unique/Elite unit, but it could be used in the regular game as well.

[Caranorn]

Camels are still in military use today. Lybia, Algeria and Egypt still have meharist units, several others too I believe. But there are few in comparison to other types of troops.

And of course we'd need camelriders for about every period of history and technological evolution;)

Marc aka Caran...

P.S.: Berbers would say it should be Berber specific and not Arab, Persians would probably opt for themselves etc. It was not quite as unique after all.

[The Big Mc]

What about a dragon I think it would be good to have a dragon sit on the map and then you get a regard bonus for killing the thing.

[Martin Gühmann]

Killing Dragons? No there are better used as mounted unit, this way they could be used for a fantasy mod.

-Martin

[The Big Mc]

why not just have a dragon and people could mod it the way they like no need for it to have somebody on its back.

[Caranorn]

The dragon isn't exactly historical (unless you make him into a druid, witch or other to be slaughtered and thereafter be called dragon in your religion's legends). It sure would like nice and impressive;)

Marc aka Caran...

[Immortal Wombat]

There already is. Jerome Lux made it.

here (http://www.weaver1.btinternet.co.uk/ctp2/ctp2dl/fantasyreadme.htm)

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

if we have dragons i want jaberwocky! :D

[The Big Mc]

is the dragon fully animated .

[Immortal Wombat]

not completely, but it flies, so it doesnt have to be...

[The Big Mc]

what program was used to make it.

[SMIFFGIG]

Umm, not sure about a dragon, was talking about a normal game modded (specifically HotW) not a fantasy scenario.

Just thought of a couple of units, tell me what you think

Bi-Plane
There is no bi-plane in ctp2, the fact that these where the first planes and single winged planes where at one time thought impossible to work. I think these would be rather important. Either as an early spy plane (could fly low out of radar too) or probably better as an early attack plane. Anyone remember that old beta screenie of Civ3 (this was when i was interested in that crap, before it came out) there was a yellow bi-plane in one of the shots (strangly there where AA TI's too) anyway in the final there wasnt any bi-planes in civ3 either to the best of my knowledge.... strange

Early tank
There are no early tanks in ctp2, as soon as you get the technology to build tanks your instantly in 70's technology with what looks to be an abrams tank.... This isnt right, progression is what we need. What about the very first tanks (ok not the armoured passenger car thingies) the ones just after that. With the tracks going all the way around the chasis. I think these would be very good in ctp2.

Now this is where Dale's idea of high support outside your civilizations boarder would work well, cause Early tanks had no range at all. With the current system you could drive your tank around the world (if it where continent map of course) and not only that later tanks this would apply to as well, only when you got to fusion tanks would this MASSIVE support outside of civ boarders be insignificant. However ive just got onto a tottaly different subject, maybe a new thread ???

Anyway what are your thoughts everyone ???????????????????

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

both biplanes and early tanks are implemented in WAW iirc, though i found the biplane a rather useless unit. but thats maybe because you start in that age and i'm normally putting most energy in funding new cities and building tis while already getting newer tech.
and of course in waw the ground units are much speedier then in the vanilla game, so the biplane is rather lame if you got your railroads placed

[Immortal Wombat]

Mc, I think the unit was copied from a M&M type game, I dunno. The original file is still in the CtP1 DB, and comes with a readme.

There are WW2 tank sprites in the Activision scenario.

[The Big Mc]

thanks

[The Big Mc]

http://apolyton.net/civ3/images/ptwscreenshots/jul02-001-thumb.jpg

I found this pic in the civ3 play the world pics.
It looks like a new unit for play the world any body know anything about it

[Immortal Wombat]

PtW includes a Dinosaur mod. Dino units, dino terrain (:confused: ) etc.

[SMIFFGIG]

I think there including the units from the Sid Meiers "Dinosaurs" game that was never released or even near finished. These i think will only be a bonus for people who want to make scenarios. There is no dino terrain or scenarios (i think) just the units (which is probably about 3 or 4).

I wanted to create a dinosaur scenario for CtP2 using Kaans Dinotopia map in the CtP2 database. Then when PTW comes out hoping the dinos would be converted.

However i started the scenario and its just too hard doing everything that I wanted in it :( oh well (cause im a newbie to scenario making). Wanted some stuff similar to Great samurai scen.


EDIT:
Tottaly impossible but a Civ3 to CtP2 scenario convertor or map converter would be cool (but im just dreaming here)

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

i thought that's the muchdiscussed cattle-unit :D

[Dale]

I found most of the WAW units in Harlen's CTP1 units packs. He's got heaps of stuff in there. And it includes the biplane.

The early tank I used is from the Activision WW2 scenario.

[The Big Mc]

Any one knows where to get pics for the other dinosaurs.

The second they come out expect me to mod them first.

If some one sends me the flc files that is.

[Caranorn]

Activision's WW2 scenario has no "early" tank much as I recall. Just slightly strange looking PzII, PzIII and Somua 35 iirc. Essentially early WWII types, but not compareable to WWI. Of course for a long mod (ancient to future), that kind of unit is more then adequate. For a mod concerned with only the modern age it's a joke.

Was about to list all the tanks that would be required in a serious modern scenario, but it's a never ending list and in any case units for such a mod would have to be combined arms (brigades, divisions and in rare cases corps) and therefore original style CTP sprites are not absolutely necessary. I have been considering a NATO style sprite set, that would of course be only 1 view, trouble would be the automatic horizontal flip to sprites in the game to simulate 8 facings (though it would not be a major problem). Then again, I don't feel like sitting down to do this.

Marc aka Caran... just rambling it seems

[Devil of Truth]

Once the Tank unit become available, the sudden leap into modern armour has always left me feeling like I’ve discovered a time machine instead of Tanks – the leap was just too big. Properly implemented armour would add significantly to CTP2.

Moreover, if you have Tanks, then you need a way to destroy them :naughty: . Another glaring oversight is the lack of an attack helicopter. Nothing better than a Longbow to make the average Tank driver sweat.

I wonder… :hmmm:

Would it be possible, with SLIC, to alter the battle chances of an attack helicopter, specifically while combating armour? For example: when a helicopter attacks armour, it is more powerful than when it’s facing any other target.

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by Devil of Truth
Would it be possible, with SLIC, to alter the battle chances of an attack helicopter, specifically while combating armour? For example: when a helicopter attacks armour, it is more powerful than when it’s facing any other target.

It is possible by using the mod functions:

mod_UnitAttack
mod_UnitRangedAttack
mod_UnitDefense

-Martin

[Immortal Wombat]

if they work... which is still uncertain. For what it's worth, I don't think they work properly.

Another way might be to see if the IsWoodenBoat flag, and BonusAgainstWoodenBoats flags work in units.txt, and just put the first one in the "tank" entry, and the second in the "attack 'copter" entry. (NB: I think I have the flag names wrong, they're similar to that.)

[JamesJKirk]

Even the US used camels at some point. They were imported to the Southwest in the 1850's by then Secretary of War Jefferson Davis. This was the inspiration I guess for Turtledove to have the "Camelry" in the book How Few Remain

[SMIFFGIG]

Some guy called root posted aload of units in 8th of August 2002 they are:

Pack 1
Japanese Battleship, Arbiter, Alien Carrier, Viking Trireme, Japanese Fire Trireme, Alien Engineer, Alien Scout, Alien Shuttle, Alien Air Carrier, Alien Battle Cruiser, Air Galley, Balloon, Ballista, Battering Ram, Ultimate Panzer. Also included are files for the advances Alien Machinery, Balloon and Ultimate Panzer.

Pack 2
Goliath, Alien Space Fighter, Trade Chart, Cannonman, Scorpion, Heavy Scorpion, Camel, Heavy Camel, Demolitor, Monk, Priest, Ancient Cannon, Armored Swordsman, Double Handed Swordsman, Axeman, King's Army Swordsman, King's Army Axeman, Ancient Swordsman, Ancient Axeman, Archer, Crossbow Archer, Fire Shaman, Light Shaman and Shaman

Sounds interesting too me, wonder why he doesnt post messages on the forum ???:confused:

The units are all from other games like Starcraft and Age of Empires. I wonder how good they are, if they look like the horse archer .spr from AoE converted to Medieval Mod 2 then I would say there not good. But there are some units in there very interesting:idea:

P.S. Civilization Test of Time uses animated sprites. The sprite format is not yet known but there working on it (or at least one person is). Although the ToT units look truly awful depending on how much work is involved the Partisan and Alpine Troops could be cleaned up.
However as I said the the format isnt yet know and not only do the sprites look absolute tripe most of the units basic design is tottaly inhuman and obsurd..... I think i might post a pic of what they all look like just to give you an idea

(When I first bought ToT and played it I seriously could not make out what my units were, none of them cause they where so undetailed and blurry)


EDIT: I forgot to mention there are aload of futuristic and Fantasy units in ToT as they have seperate campaigns, im warning you there There are things like giant mechanical bee (Bombus), Giant crocadile with a rider and Marshmellow looking men(used in both futuristic and fantasy scenarios [recycled units]) but there maybe a few of interest.

[The Big Mc]

tell us if the packs are animated when you get them working.

[Pedrunn]

The space units he made are fantastic and are included in the space scenario (some borg ships and all Khri Threen ones).
Check this page of the scenario
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=43897&perpage=30&pagenumber=2

I tried the axeman and the Priest both had no animation (although the priest uses a skirt that make is dont need animation). Dont know the others though.

The trade chart is just like the carvan. Just the picture.

[Devil of Truth]

I think the units you’re referring to, is actually part of Alper Saracoglu’s unit pack. You can find them in the Apolyton directory here (http://apolyton.net/dir/index.php?sid=710694056&id=1528&t=reviews&toprate=5.0000&tophits=3759&cat=61).

The quality of most is okay, but they’re not animated if I remember correctly.

[SMIFFGIG]

From left to right:

Partisan, Alpine Troops, Fanatic, Barbarian Leader

[The Big Mc]

If you want looking at these pics some may be animated as animation could be easy because they are basically flaying.

[The Big Mc]

Possible new future unit alert

Hay found some info. I read this at the bottom of a page on the civ3 web site.

Enhanced Scenario Editor, including new unit and tile sets lets players construct a Scenario from any time period

[SMIFFGIG]

I am so looking forward to "Play the World" Civ3 expansion pack :)


So that we can rip out all the good stuff it has do offer and put it into Call to Power 2:evilgrin:


I might even download it:naughty:

[nova]

Just to beggin I wanted to make a Schnorkel U-boat unit.
That is for my WW2 scenario.
The reson for this unit is that germans where trying to built such a sub since 1942. It was supposed to help them to win the battle of Atlantic, maybe the most important battle of all since from it were depending the battles of Russia, North Africa, England, even the invasion of Europe, in June 1944.
Donitz, the Commander of the Reich's Kriegsmarine (Did I write it right?) wanted or many u-boats, over 300, or the Schnorkel u-boats, in order to win the battle of Atlantic.
Fortunately, for us ( Immagine Apolyton In Deutch, Altavisten, Der Yahoo, Porn films in German!) he didn't have this number of subs till 1943, and by that time the allies had the technology to win anyway. The Schnorkel was a system that gave air to the diesel engine of the sub, so it didn't had to use the batteries underwater. That was a great advantage since the batteries didn't last long, and couldn't give much power, so the u-boats had to be slow and get on the surface often. Many u-boats were destroyed will they were recharging the batteries.
The schnorkel device was ready by the summer of '44, but just about there the german army lost the ports in France and the new u-boats were not more useful.

What do you think of the Schnorkel U-boat I want to build?

[SMIFFGIG]

Very cool nova !

But what will it look like and how will it look different from a normal submarine of that period?

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Originally posted by nova
...
Donitz, the Commander of the Reich's Kriegsmarine (Did I write it right?)
...

Porn films in German!)


well, his name was Dönitz and the schnorkel is a Schnorchel, besides of that no spelling mistakes :b:

but what do you dislike about german pornfilms? :D

[nova]

Ooh, come on now I am just going to use one of the subs you can find in the collection of WW2 units, then you will just have to learn how the new unit is going to look like.

Thanx prince, I actually knew that about Donitz, but I still can't find the correct way to write it!

Well I have nothing against german porn films, they are solid, simple and efficient :naughty: I just remembered of an american porn doubled (did I write it right?) with German.

Horrible!

[Caranorn]

Well, you could write Doenitz to replace the š (bet that doesn't appar right on the web). I for one never bother about changeing German special characters to oe, ue or ae exception being ss of course, but that character has been struck anyhow if you go by the newest gramatics).

For the rest, I think the schnorchel subs were still quite effective, just too late and too few. And while the loss of french bases was a pain for the KM, they still could use the norwegian ones (not as ideal for certain targets, better for others). And of course the principal of schnorchel subs was carried over to other navies after the war.

And as a close thanks to our Russian friends for sticking it out throughout the war under dreadfull conditions and kicking the NAZI's out.

Marc aka Caran...

[SMIFFGIG]

Cool, PTW for civ3 adds a new unit i quote

Guerillas are now also available to all players after the discovery of Replaceable Parts. Guerillas are basically cheaper, slightly weaker infantry that don't require any strategic resources.

Woohoo there we have our Partisan. Although if we get resources like in civ3 we could also use it as a Guerilla (and appears like a partisan from conquered cities)

[nova]

Chieftain, the only thing I could say is that I agree 100%, for the subs and for the Russians.

Russian soldiers had to fight a kind of war the rest of the world didn't witnessed. When the germans arrived in greece, Hitler personally gave the order so the greek prisoners of war be escorted back to their cities, and to be permitted to the officials to keep their swords.

In France the Germans respected the population and the orders were to byu and not to steal.

When the German Hedquarters were planning the invasion in USSR, Hitler said that since russia never signed the treaty for the prisoners of war, the russians shouldn't be treated as the rest.

Millions of russian soldiers died during the war as prisoners and that was one of the major mistakes of Hitler: hundrends of thousand of soviet soldiers were surrending to the germans at the beggining of the war, but when they found out the way prisoners were treated they prefered dying than give up.

A big mistake thinking also that the soviet citizens hated their communist leaders and at the begging of the war germans were more a liberating force than enemies. The way germans treated the soviet citizens, transformed them to enemies.

A big mistake.

[The Big Mc]

Had a few hours spear at the week end. So stole the hot air balloon of the ms scenarios and made it into a unit spr file for you.


Enjoy

[Devil of Truth]

I like the balloon; it looks really good. Good work. But it’s not quite a military unit – a little too colourful. If it could be grey, or khaki, it would be near perfect.

:hmmm:

Maybe a new unit. An “Emperor’s balloon”! You only get one after you’ve achieved a certain score. And the politicians provide the hot air.:cute:

Maybe not.:lol:

[The Big Mc]

What about a spy unit. The balloon goes into an enemy city posing as a travailing circus and looks at what the city has got from a few hundred feet in the air.:D

[SMIFFGIG]

what do i use to view the sprites ?

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by SMIFFGIG
what do i use to view the sprites ?

Unfortunatly we don't have a sprite viewer, therefore the only tool to view a sprite is the game itsself.

-Martin

[Daftpanzer]

I havent had time to read through all of this thread yet (apologies if i am repeating something)

Personally I always liked the idea of more gradual development of units and not so big steps up. In civ2 i tried to make scenarios that had early, modern and furuistic tanks, and went from biplane to ww2 fighter to jet fighter to f22 style futuristic fighter.

I think there is room for 2 or more gun infantry units in ctp2. Gunpowder could give you a basic musketeer or arquebusier unit, that still needs the protection of pikemen. Im not an expert but I know that pikeman/musketeer combination was still being used after 1700 at least, musketeers as a close-combat unit in those times would still be mauled to pieces. Not until they got improved guns and bayonets and better tactics did you get the all-rounder infrantryman style unit of ctp2.

Maybe there could be a napoleonic style infantryman and a american civil war breech-loading rifle type unit, both these units instead of just the infantryman?

I think maybe there could be a ww1 style infantry unit as well as the machine gunner, representing better tactics (not everyone in a big line charging the enemy so much).

This unit would stay useful until you get marines or more general modern 'assault troops' as I liked to have in civ2 (representing modern assault rifles, thermal imaging etc and better armour).

I like the idea of zepplins too. They had a short lifespan in our reality, but what if aeroplane development had lagged behind by 30 years or more?

Overall I think more units, more gradual development would be great, but not so much as to make your existing units obsolete every few turns!

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Originally posted by Daftpanzer
I like the idea of zepplins too. They had a short lifespan in our reality, but what if aeroplane development had lagged behind by 30 years or more?


what if the hindenburg hadn't blown up at lake hurst and there would have been no ww2?

zeppelins would have been the primary way of intercontinental passenger transport for some decades!

ok, thats maybe not so interesting in terms of warfare, but I'd really like to do a cruise on a luxury class zeppelin

[Devil of Truth]

Originally posted by Zaphod Beeblebrox
...but I'd really like to do a cruise on a luxury class zeppelin

I would love to cruise in a luxury class Zeppelin myself. I have spent the best part of a day in a modern day dirigible :p (as they called it) - definitely worth the price of admission – if you get the chance, jump at it (not out of it though ;) ).

Balloons played a big recon role in WW1 and even before that. I believe they unquestionably belong in the game. Empire Earth has some balloons that could be used for sprites.

[Devil of Truth]

I have a dream :zzz: … I’ve always wanted the unit upgrade process to be more unit specific and gradual.

For example:
* The default unit is a Tank (or an Infantryman, or Knight whatever).
* By researching something (or spending money; or both), you can upgrade to a Mark 1 Tank. Same unit, but a better engine = +1 movement.
* More research (or money), your Mark 1 Tank becomes a Mark 2 and gets some extra armour = +1 defence.
* Throw some more scientists or cash at the problem, and the Mark 3 Tank proves that the size of your gun really is important :naughty: = +1 attack.
Etc. etc. ad nauseum.

Doing this would allow more differentiation between similar units; making battles a little more interesting; and could even allow an older Mark 3+ unit to defeat a newer default unit.

However, I think the programming behind this would be gruelling and it could give the player too many unnecessary, micro-management choices. Add to that a guppy-brained AI :angry: and the idea starts sounding like the Titanic.

If only…:love:

[mapfi]

More or less your talking of a unit shop like SMAC has, only that with that game you get it properly implemented.
As for the work involved - rewriting the tech tree and all the new units won't be harder than the work e.g. for that part of cradle but it 'd be a lot of work.
Dale's developping something along those lines for his AOM mod. Might want to read that thread.

[Daftpanzer]

I think it would be great if different civs might upgrade their units in different ways like that, with different methods to try out. Battles between tanks with extra firepower and tanks with extra armour would be cool... the different civs trying to find the most effective type of tank to build.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

there is one big problem in tinkering with the different tanks (or whatever):
the way the units appear on the battlescreen!
i often enough had really planned which units to stack for what i thought could be a really effective mix of weapons for a specific task just to see the game place my artillery in the frontline and stuff like that. does anybody know how the units are placed in the combat screen and if that can perhaps be done manually? (though thats unneccessary and timeconsuming for most battles)

btw: i really wonder why in naval battles when i go to battle with my standard small recon fleet (1 destroyer, 1 patrolboat(? not sure whats their english name, my vanilla game used to be in german)) against one single vessel they didn't line up behind each other, both of them have bombard capabillity!)

[Pedrunn]

I’ve always wanted the unit upgrade process to be more unit specific and gradual.
We could create a order called upgrade. By using this order a message pop up telling you your possibilities of upgrade.
You choose one and you rplace the old unit by a brand new and upgraded one.
It is totally possible and i must say that the SLIC will be very simple yet repetitive therefore handful.

Not to mention the thougths that must be in the tech tree, in the upgrade line and the massive number of new units you will need in the unit.txt (not hard though just a lot of cut and paste).

Yet totally possible.

[Devil of Truth]

Originally posted by Pedrunn
Yet totally possible.

Whoohoo! Christmas came early this year. :D

[The Big Mc]

Hindenburg disaster was all the Americans fault. If it had been maid using helium like they wanted and not hydrogen which the Americans forced them to use by not trading the needed helium.

[Dale]

DOT & Mapfi:

Yes, I've got something similar to what you say in AOM, but not done the same way. Yes, the unit will upgrade after relevant research (IE: +50% defence on researching Primitive Steel for Hoplites). No, you don't get promted. No, it won't cost to upgrade. Yes, I use the SAME sprite (harder to tell what Civ has what upgrade). Yes, I'm using Peter's upgrade SLIC for when a new unit becomes available (major tech breakthrough, IE: From Bireme to Coracle when Sails are researched).

It works well. :)

[Devil of Truth]

Dale, thanks for the 411. Just a thought: Would it be better to offer the choice to upgrade to the human player (the AI gets the upgrade regardless, off course); and charge for it? Do you think it would add or subtract from the game? Or is it just too cumbersome to implement? Can’t wait for AOM!

[The Big Mc]

It will make the ai harder to beat which will make the game better.

[Devil of Truth]

I just thought of something (it happens :) ). What about a unit that “infects” other units? Not cities like the Infector etc. Something like a chemical or bio-bomb? It doesn’t kill the unit – just decreases it’s HP – and is destroyed in the process.

[SMIFFGIG]

DoT, i thought of a similar idea. Only not a unit but terrain, eg

When unit(s) walk over Jungle terrain there is a 2% chance that they get a disease and ther hitpoints decrease for a turn or two. The same could apply to desert (famine) snow (cold) mountain (loads of things) etc etc) would make you think about which routes u took, what units u used to explore and how often you did so.
however as i am not a modder a can never put my ideas into play :(

[SMIFFGIG]

Chemical Missile
How about a chemical missile weapon that had an instant effect of killing units in a city but also had the same effect as an infector long term. The graphics could be used from the Civ3 Nuke or Cruise missile graphics ?

[The Big Mc]

I made a gaia bomb the over day yes it a cross between a nuke and an eco ranger.

[SMIFFGIG]

Now thats a good idea Big Mc, for Ectopian government only.
however i think it would have to have unique graphics and not just look like another missile (IMO):b:

[The Big Mc]

I am planning on taking the tactical nuke from civ3.

However to make it work you must over right most of the nuke commands.

[Devil of Truth]

Originally posted by SMIFFGIG
DoT, i thought of a similar idea. Only not a unit but terrain, eg...

My knowledge of SLIC is dangerous, but I know this can be done. I will give it a shot, but Pedrunn or IW could probably churn something like this out in a nanosecond. Great idea!

[Devil of Truth]

Originally posted by The Big Mc
I made a gaia bomb the over day yes it a cross between a nuke and an eco ranger.

Wouldn’t this make Ecotopian governments too powerful? With these babies, you’d be able to remove an entire civilization – completely :scared: . Unlike nukes, which at least spares their cities but leaves ‘em glowing in the dark.

[Pedrunn]

DoT, i thought of a similar idea. Only not a unit but terrain, eg

When unit(s) walk over Jungle terrain there is a 2% chance that they get a disease and ther hitpoints decrease for a turn or two. The same could apply to desert (famine) snow (cold) mountain (loads of things) etc etc) would make you think about which routes u took, what units u used to explore and how often you did so.
however as i am not a modder a can never put my ideas into play
This is a terrific idea. All of these you mentioned plus get lost in deep sea and other terrain too. Not hard to do (quite easy to tell you the true just test it and messages could take while). And it is among the top of things to do for quite a while. Unfortunnetly my list of acomplishments is so slowly lately. And the list of thing to do keeps growing. :(

[The Big Mc]

This does the same for all intensive purposes it is a nuke the only difference is this baby cleans up after it self.

[SMIFFGIG]

From a Q & A thing off civfanatics

<pesoloco> What will any of the new unit packs include? like the dinosaur pack, WWII pack?
<+Jeff_Morris_FIRAXIS> Pescolo: Dinos has about 14 units, WWII has over 20, Medieval Japan over 20. 24 kings (which is really a unit set in themselves).

Yay lots of units for civ3, and good scenario makers around here :confused: could recreate the exact scenarios in ctp2 using the exact same units and everything :)

Anyway lots of units nether the less


Off topic:

<Exsanguination> what has been added to the editor? :)
<+Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS> there are a lot of new things in the editor: time line control, x/y map wrapping, operation range increase, debug mode, combining of wonder/small wonder abils, impassable terrain, support exemption for units, increased map size

So really stuff that shoud have been included in a small patch (oh no cause then there would be nothing to put in the addon)

[The Big Mc]

14 dino units wow.

[The_Wizard_Ahz]

in the post about balloons,there are some to use in the directory under : /dir/dir/dir/../../action.php?sid=942272544&url=http://apolyton.net/~ctp2files/modification/units/unitpack1.zip&action=go&id=1528


(hope that came out right)

Ballons would be a good addition to the game,as long as you remember that they're mostly for observation or transportation. I think it would be good if they were added much like boats are in the game -ie. start with a 2 movement + carry 1 unit,next step would be the same as a longship,then as a caravel,etc.-
Once up to the "Caravel" stage,they would gain the ability to 'bombard' units they fly over (range 0 )
With no armor,but only attackable by other air units

I looked at the file with the balloon,and tried to add it,BUT found that something is missing (or I went about it wrong :confused: )
I would appreciate it if someone with more experience at modding than I would take a look at the file and make any changes (if needed).:D *methinks the adds for the "Great Library' file are missing. but I'm a newbie soo... *

[Devil of Truth]

Originally posted by The Big Mc
This does the same for all intensive purposes it is a nuke the only difference is this baby cleans up after it self.

The difference (as I see it), between a Gaia bomb and a nuke, is that a nuke devastates a city, while a Gaia bomb eliminates a city.

If your opponent has 20 cities, and you stockpile 20 Gaia bombs, you could eliminate all trace of your opponent in one turn :evilgrin: ! It is a great idea, I love it, it’s a triple-A idea (Absolutely Assured Annihilation :D ) – but I still think it’s too powerful. If you have these, you don’t need mobile troops anymore. Just my two cents.

[Devil of Truth]

Dino’s – big whoop! Guess they needed to add a little extra to make that game worth the price on the box :lol: . The only use would be for fantasy scenarios.

But what if…

In the late game… after genetic manipulation… a wonder appears… let’s call it “Jurassic Park” for now… someone builds it… the world is amazed… and then these creatures escape… and wreak havoc on an unsuspecting populace… kinda like a late game barb unit?

Now if somebody could mod a Steven Spielberg unit!:cute:

[SMIFFGIG]

In the late game… after genetic manipulation… a wonder appears… let’s call it “Jurassic Park” for now… someone builds it… the world is amazed… and then these creatures escape… and wreak havoc on an unsuspecting populace… kinda like a late game barb unit

This isnt as far fetched as one may think, In ctp1 there was a wonder called dino park (basically the same as jurrasic park) they very strangly took it out of ctp2 though:doitnow!: . But this wonder could easily be re-implemented and it has a TI for the visible wonders mod (so it would show up on map and it would look cool)
However by this late stage in the game i find it hard to see any dino's escaping and even if they did escape I cant see them being much (or any) threat at all

Still, maybe if the enemy pillaged the visible wonder the dino' could be let lose, and you could see them on the map (dinos from civ3) and rather than being so much of a threat it would just cause your civ and particualarly the city that built the park severe unhappiness.

To be honest with you i think the dino's would be best in there own dino scenarios. One using the ctp2 dinotopia map and one direct conversion from civ3 :)

[nova]

I hope I am not writing something stupid, I haven't yet tried all the mods and the rest so I just don't know if there is what I would like to have.

A landmine or even a sea one or even the ones that can be launched by the airplanes and spread in a large area, I thing that could be interesting.

I put mindfields right in front of my units and if someone attacks takes the damage and I can finished him later.

Missile launch vehicles, like the SS-18(?) and the Pershing 2.

Well what do you think?

[SMIFFGIG]

Nova the landmine idea has been suggested for a long time, Activision where going to implement landmines, sea mines and space mines into ctp1. However the AI would have no chance of handling the idea, thats why they scrapped it. They even made a unit which wasnt implemented calle the "Combat engineer" which looks very cool and would be good as a genetic age+ engineer. However it is holding a mine detector which would just be silly if there where no mines in the game.

There is one missile launcher vehicle in ctp2 the sam launcher
However i think the V2 rocket launcher would be a cool unit maybe a UU unit after the discovery of Rocketry.

P.S. What does the satelite rocket laucher unit thing do in Civ3?? I think it attacks cities from very long range, could do the same for the V2

[SMIFFGIG]

Woohoo im prince yay :dance: does this mean i can have a custom avatar ??? or is that King?

[Maquiladora]

No, you need 500 posts for an avatar, that shouldnt be too hard for you yeh spammer :lol:

Custom Avatars are so passe ;)

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by SMIFFGIG
Nova the landmine idea has been suggested for a long time, Activision where going to implement landmines, sea mines and space mines into ctp1. However the AI would have no chance of handling the idea, thats why they scrapped it. They even made a unit which wasnt implemented calle the "Combat engineer" which looks very cool and would be good as a genetic age+ engineer. However it is holding a mine detector which would just be silly if there where no mines in the game.

I think such ab idea can implemented into the game, it just needs time to teach the AI to use it and that was the problem that the CTP1 programers faced.

Originally posted by SMIFFGIG
Woohoo im prince yay :dance: does this mean i can have a custom avatar ??? or is that King?

No you need 200 more post to be allowed to use a costum avatar, so you need to be a half king. :D

-Martin

[The Big Mc]

To implement mines could be easy just right a bit of slic that reduces a random amount of hp off the unit that way an ai unit could get over the minefield repair itself then make a mess.

As for gaia bombs it takes around 3 to wipe a city out as they have the same attack as nukes the only defence being that in the const file I put a - in front of the nuke pollution factor as well as making a dummy dead tile which is really a copy of a FOREST.

[Daftpanzer]

I have some ideas for government-specific units..

Some governments could build genetically engineered 'genome soldiers', basically cheap but powerful assault troops. But most goverment types dont allow them, as they are against mass-cloning and genetic manipulation for military means.

Technocracy could build some kind of A.I robot infantry like the terminators or something of that kind. It would be fairly powerful, but would have some kind of drawback for being an AI unit.

Also some governments could build genetic horrors, biological attack contructs, something evil and nasty like the zerg from starcraft. These would be fairly powerful and have a habit of eating the entire population of enemy cities. But of course only the most hard-core military governments could build these.

Also I think some kind of religious fanatic unit could be made for theocracy, as well as the priest dude.

Just some ideas :confused:

[Pedrunn]

Some governments could build genetically engineered 'genome soldiers', basically cheap but powerful assault troops. But most goverment types dont allow them, as they are against mass-cloning and genetic manipulation for military means.

This reminds me of when i used to have a werewolf elite unit in my mod for those who developed Genetic Tailoring :p
Gee, what was i thinking!?! :lol:

[The Big Mc]

All my units on hell to come are robots I found I did not have as many problems with there being no bad happiness points for losing a robot unit.

And what about using the dinosaur units form test of time and a mutate capacity. Just deploy the attack on a city and watch the pop go down and mutate to dinosaurs.:D

[SMIFFGIG]

Some interesting discution in the Test of time forum that i have been keeping an eye on.


Looks promising and could be converted, although the units are crap quality
Take a look here:
Understanding Tot Sprite File Format (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=61778&perpage=20&pagenumber=1)

Ive had a go trying to convert Civ3 units, but just cant get to grips with it, I will give it another go though :(

-James

[SMIFFGIG]

oh and ive obtained:D a copy of Civ3 PTW Expansion, so if anyone wants me to post units (theres quite a few new ones in the scenarios dirs etc) then i will

Big Mac didnt you want those Dinos, theres loads of them

Allosaur
Deinoychus
Parasaur
Raptor
Stegasaur
Trex
Anklyosaur
Gallumus
Plateosaur
Spinosaur
Torosaur
Triceratops

(and no i didnt just make half those names up)

-James

[The Big Mc]

smifig were the site. I am inactivating at the moment with a mixture of my home pc being on its last legs and five hundreds of assignments.

[The Big Mc]

No you did not make them up. Spinosaur is the one form Jurassic park 3 and most of the other ones I know off I so want the Anklyosaur as it was an tank like creature very hard.

[The Big Mc]

any dino ciys / terain

[SMIFFGIG]

i setup a free site at 150m.com thinking dumbly (as they wanted me too) i was getting 100mb free web storage. However i set up a basic web page then it hits me i actually have 2mb storage, so i cant upload the dinos there:rolleyes: ill upload them here.

Nope no nothing dino except the units i mentioned, PTW is the worst expansion i have ever seen for any game(seriously). Dino's are involved in 1 only 1 of the crap scenarios and it is a standard game in all aspects (except non random map, although it looks random) only that the barbarians are dinosaurs:confused: i mean wtf, they are is the normal barb camp (little village thing) with a dino standing in it, same attack etc as a warrior (which are the first barbs). Sorry but a little better scenario could have been done with that many units..... ANYWAY onto subject

Ill upload (run, attack_a, fidget and death) for Anklyosaur

DO U WANT THE SOUNDS TOO ?

[SMIFFGIG]

Anklyosaur Attack

As I said already Big Mc your avatar is superb (shame its not background transparent though)

[SMIFFGIG]

Anklyosaur death

SOUNDS TOO ???

[SMIFFGIG]

Here we are Big Mc, your avatar with no white background (i think it looks better :)

[Straybow]

One thing to remember: early forms of most weapons were impractical. Arquebus were around from the early 1400s, and clunky guns long before that. The first effective Musketeer unit was the Russian Streltzy used to defeat the Sibersk Mongols in 1586. That is a 200 year latency. The airplanes and tanks of WWI were ineffective as fighting units on the strategic scale, serving as infantry support and recon (respectively). There was a 20 year latency before effective combat tanks and aircraft appeared.

The option to develop the tech first appearing in your tech screen is the first primitive use. The unit appears when your military finally restructures to accomodate the new idea.

BTW, Musketeers didn't need pikemen for defense against cavalry because tight formations can break a cavalry charge without physical contact. Horses are trying to run through the gaps when spurred into a charge, and if they don't see any gaps they pull up. The Russians sent 1500 unsupported Streltzy against 6000+ Mongol cavalry garrison and won.

OTOH, you can bet early musketeers carried swords and axes for close combat (hence the swashbuckling Frenchmen of fiction and film). The bayonet was a great innovation because it made the musket a good melee weapon at little expense, and integrated melee training with musket drill.

If you don't want to rush through the three century musket era it can be broken down into two to four distinct periods. You might stretch planes and armor into 3 periods before you're into future tech.

[The Big Mc]

you can use my web site for the hosting i thinck i got some space left out of my 250 meg i will pm you about it now.

[Aias]

Rather than seeing some new units, I would like to see a few units redone. The Crossbowman is an example. I think that the unit is really some kind of Arquebus with a different .wav file for the shooting. Plus, the green and yellow color are...less than attractive!

[The Big Mc]

is there any in civ3?

[The Big Mc]

http://thebigmc.250free.com/the%20bft.gif

smiffgig an avatar for you

[SMIFFGIG]

:) Dare i say it, i have VERY quickly fixed (ill say tiedied) up your War Walker animatioin avatar

FAR!!! from perfect but just abit of quick messing with

[Straybow]

:lol: Looks like the first one is trying (unsuccessfully) to do the "Moonwalk" ??

Smiffy, yours looks like it has a limp. Battle damage?

[SMIFFGIG]

Oh im sorry i just have to post it for a second time incase anyone missed:p

My avatar to be

[Pedrunn]

Originally posted by Straybow
Looks like the first one is trying (unsuccessfully) to do the "Moonwalk" ??

:lol:

[Devil of Truth]

How many posts to Avatar heaven SMIFFGIG?

[The Big Mc]

its suppose to do the moon walk its a dancing war walker.:band:


I also found a web site with some unit picks on it from play the world.

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3units_ptw.shtml


I was thinking last night is there any documentation on how to make a civ 3 flc file possibly done by fireaxis or are they like activison and ignore the moding community.:wall:

[Immortal Wombat]

Originally posted by Devil of Truth
How many posts to Avatar heaven SMIFFGIG?
About 80. View his profile; you need 500 posts for a custom avatar.

[The Big Mc]

Wombat that’s only 27 days if he keeps his current post per day up.

Wombat do you know any thing about the creation of flc files.:D

[Immortal Wombat]

yes

[The Big Mc]

well what do you know.

[Immortal Wombat]

Use Animation Shop, get all the frames you want, paste them into one animation and save as a FLC. Open in FLICster and do all the Civ3 specific stuff if you need/want to.

[The Big Mc]

i need to know max size min size stuff like that.:D

[Immortal Wombat]

I'd suggest trying the Civ3 creation forum. CFC is probably an even better bet.

[The Big Mc]

ok thanks:D

[The Big Mc]

Are there any new recourses / wonders /cities in play the world?

[SMIFFGIG]

Hey! Hey! Hey! Big Mc, dont go overboard, this is FIRAXIS where talking about here

No new resources/1 new wonder(internet) wonder where they got that idea/no new cities

P.S. Big Mc, clean out your PM, i lost an essays worth because your PM storage was full :( :)

-James

[The Big Mc]

pm clear now.

The dinosaurs look good but is there any flying ones in there.

[SMIFFGIG]

No i posted every single one


Ill PM u later


P.S. If theres any other PTW units or terrains etc u want, give me a buzz

[The Big Mc]

terrains

what terain add on have been included:eek:

[Immortal Wombat]

you didnt save the PM to your outbox?

[The Big Mc]

what really upsets me is he has not pm me back yet.

[SMIFFGIG]

sorry Big Mc for not replying

anyway i just thought i would show everyone this site http://www.civ3files.com/cgi-bin/Main.cgi?Page=Civ3ShowUnits its Civ3 units, but if anyboday wants to convert any units that arent anywhere else then here they are. Proves how well the Age Of Empires units could look too if they where converted (check the second page on the site)

oh and it has a fanatic unit to along with the AoE2 Camel and many othershttp://www.civ3files.com/civ3/Categories/Units/Fanatic-Large.gif

http://www.civ3files.com/civ3/Categories/Units/Camel-Large.gif

Some examples

-James

[The Big Mc]

looking good:D

[SMIFFGIG]

Well at least theres not shortage of units for modders

Just a shortage of people able to convert them

[SMIFFGIG]

thought i would bring this topic up once agian now that we have the source code released

Im currently particularly thinking of the partisans feature (ala civ2)