Master of Orion III

[Kyle]

IGN has a new preview, including new pics.


http://pc.ign.com/previews/14808.html

[pchang]

3 months after CivIII is done?????
When will CivIII be done?????

[The Rusty Gamer]

Civ III will be done 3 months before MOO3 is done.

"Elementary, My Dear Watson"

Actually, if you check out http://www.avault.com/previews/ you will see that CIV III is due out in October 2001.

[pchang]

October 2001 => January 2002
Waah!!! I can't wait that long!

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by pchang
January 2002


What?!? Haven't these people heard of Christmas??? That's spelled X-M-A-S, huge net sales numbers, ka-ching. They'd better rethink their timing. Dr. Martin Luther King Day isn't a real big gift-giving holiday! :mad:

[SerapisIV]

I'm really looking forward to MOO3, but the graphics ( MOO3 Official Page ) (http://www.moo3.com) are kinda dissappointing to me, they seems washed out, not really polished. Hopefully they're old engine screenshots and the released game will look better

[JohnT]

Originally posted by Zkribbler


What?!? Haven't these people heard of Christmas??? That's spelled X-M-A-S, huge net sales numbers, ka-ching. They'd better rethink their timing. Dr. Martin Luther King Day isn't a real big gift-giving holiday! :mad:

Don't be a cheapskate: go buy your own copy. :cool:

[Colon™]

"I'm really looking forward to MOO3, but the graphics ( MOO3 Official Page ) are kinda dissappointing to me, they seems washed out, not really polished. Hopefully they're old engine screenshots and the released game will look better"

Really strategy gamers only look at content.;)

[SerapisIV]

Originally posted by Colon
"I'm really looking forward to MOO3, but the graphics ( MOO3 Official Page ) are kinda dissappointing to me, they seems washed out, not really polished. Hopefully they're old engine screenshots and the released game will look better"

Really strategy gamers only look at content.;)

Bite me, its 2001 the game has been under development for a long damn time. Artists can't code, so why don't they keep making the game look better.

[SerapisIV]

Link MOO3 Races Announcement (http://moo3.quicksilver.com/official/race_announce.html)

Quiksilver announced that they've reduced the number of races to 16

[The Rusty Gamer]

That's only predefined races though. You can still create your own.

[SerapisIV]

One thing I hope they don't reduce is the number of races the game engine can handle. Civ3 appears to be following previous Civ-iterations by only having 7, hopefully Quiksilver's reduction in races doesn't eliminate having 24 races or greater if you can get 8 mod races, etc.

[Asher]

It should be noted that Firaxis never announced a release date for Civ3, so any date is speculation.

Jan 2002 seems a little soon. I know someone who works at QuickSilver, and from what I heard, Jan 2002 is very optimisitic.

[pchang]

Does that mean Oct 2001 release of Civ III is also very optimistic?

[The Rusty Gamer]

Originally posted by pchang
Does that mean Oct 2001 release of Civ III is also very optimistic?

Possibly, but I just read just before that in E3 it was revealed that the basic core of CIV 3 is done. Now it's mainly graphics and beta-testing (I think).

[pchang]

I enjoy science fiction, so I like MOO and fervently hope for MOO3 to come out sooner rather than later. I also enjoy the futuristic parts of CIV. However, they happen so late in the game that it is pretty much always over by the time I reach that point.

[Father Beast]

I'm still not sold on this "Imperial Focus" nonsense. but the rest of the game as put out sounds great!

I like that terraforming is race specific, and huge galaxies with thousands of worlds are possible.
I remember playing the original MoO in huge galaxies where stargates really mattered! The addition of several planets in MoO2 was quite a joy, though the game sort of sucked in a lot of other ways.

In short, the jury is out on MoO3, but I'll certainly be willing to look at it...

[Warm Beer]

I have a few answers to address some fo the concerns of some in this thread. I am a long time lurker on the official Moo3 forum (wish they had a better forum design..ugh), so take what I say with a grain of salt.

RE: Release date-
The official stance of Quicksilver has been 3 mos after CivIII of 1Q 2002, whichever is later. Moo3 and CivIII are both being published by Infogrames who doens't want to release two games at similar times that could conceivably compete with each other.

RE: Graphics-
Moo3 is not even in Alpha yet... there is a bunch of work yet to be done. But I am not a programmer nor an artist, so I know how much not even being to the Alpha stage effects art.

RE:Races-
The smaller mumber of races is a result of wanted to make 16 unique races that have individual depth to them, rather than 10 or so unique races and a bunch of silly variations on the same themes. IIRC, there will be up to 32 different player positions available in the game.

RE:IFPs-
This is probably the hardest sell. I, too, thought "This SUX!!" when I first read about it, but as I learned more about the game and the design, I am beginning to think that this is going to work.
From the sheer size of the galaxy to the mind mumbing options a player will (in theory) be able to choose from, the IFP thing may well be a blessing to help 'focus' the player in to making the most pertinent choices during each turn.

Stopping now, no one likes a long post. ;)

[DanS]

IFPs and governors are the way to go. I've been wondering for years why they didn't do this in Civ. Helps with balance and the fun factor, just as long as the governors aren't totally retarded.

[[LordLMP]]

I don't mind the imperial focus thing...but do hope there will be an option/cheat to disable/unlimited it available when i get bored with it :p I like cheat codes available in games...i am no cheater, but it is useful for me to increase its replayablity :) play as the most advance empire in the game.....play as the richest..... play as the most advance and the richest which only controls one system and so on :p

Me personally, i don't give a hoot about the graphics (aslong it is not worse then MOO2), aslong as the gameplay rocks :)

-LMP

[Master Marcus]

I remember putting ON governors in my very first SMAC games: the AI was often qualified as artificial idiot for a reason. Thereafter I played ( like most SMAC(x)-addicts ) everything by myself, micromanaging everything. It was - and still - the only way to build an empire I like . And I'm not sure that within the last 2 years and a half the programmers have improved the AI to build a VARIETY of intelligent things to improve EVERY colony you have the same way a human player can do.

So the dreadful IFP points they'll put in MOO3 are still....a bit frightful to me, because they mean the end of micromanaging everything the way you like. We may be condemned to play, for example, the highest diff level ( not too soon I guess ) as a simple "emperor-spectator" during battles if we choose to spend ALL of the turn IFP to SOME colonies??? Sounds defeat to me....

However this system is almost essential - it's a paradox. A huge galaxy of 10,000 colonies at all (and a 1,000 ships each empire), wow, that really means the end of micromanaging- just imagine designing every ship, a single turn could take a day to make!

[Urban Ranger]

That also means you need a Cray to run the game. :D

[Comrade Tribune]

Originally posted by Zkribbler


What?!? Haven't these people heard of Christmas??? That's spelled X-M-A-S, huge net sales numbers, ka-ching. They'd better rethink their timing.

<sigh> No, they´d not; they are cool strategists. They give people 3 months to find out that Civ is just the same old Civ. Then they hit them over the head with something that is really all new. A clean knock-out. :D

[Master Marcus]

Hmmm, I'me sure the delay is going to be something like 6 months instead of 3. MOO3 is very far to be Beta, and when it will be, the testing is going to be delicate. Maybe this will give us the real time to play both games.:cute:

[Cybergod]

Originally posted by pchang
I enjoy science fiction, so I like MOO and fervently hope for MOO3 to come out sooner rather than later. I also enjoy the futuristic parts of CIV. However, they happen so late in the game that it is pretty much always over by the time I reach that point.

I agree. But since I started playing SMAC/X, I think my satisfaction with Sci-fi has saturated a bit. All that micro-managment (AAARRRGGGHHH!!! :eek: ), I just wonder how you will get to manage thousands of colonies, let alone one Planet in SMAC. Also, what about my wallet problem!? How am I gonna get BOTH Civ3 and Moo3?! :D (I'll manage!) ;)

[Stormhound]

Regarding the AI: Yes, we know it's going to be critical. That's why QS brought in someone to start working on the AI a year ago. You folks tell me, is that the usual way it works in the industry, the team starts working on the AI a year and a half before release?

So far as "emperor spectator": the situation you describe is virtually impossible for one simple reason. You get your turn's IFP in the middle of the turn, immediately PRIOR to the space combat segment. So you'll always have a fresh, steaming batch of IFP to fight your battles. Now, if you choose to spend them all fighting battles, and don't save any to manage your empire, that's your own look-out, no? :D (Same goes if you get into so many battles you can't personally manage them all.)

So far as what's needed to run the game: the minimum spec (which right now is just under a P2-300) is not the usual "this will be good enough to load the game, but lots of luck trying to play it". Instead, the minimum spec is being set as the slowest computer on which the game will run at an acceptable speed for the consumer. That's why, for instance, the ship graphics are pre-rendered...so space combat won't drag like a dead mule.

Any other questions?

[tniem]

Stormhound,

Thanks for the information.

One more question from me for now ;)

It is about battles. In most RTS games you have to monitor you troops quite heavily to make sure they aren't firing on each other or attacking pointless buildings when they are taking fire. Yet I want to save IFPs and build my empire. Am I going to let fighting be handled by my commanders so much that I don't even have to do anything during the fight? Can the AI handle the battles without any interaction with me well? Can I just watch the battles? And does it cost IFPs to only watch?

[Stormhound]

Well, you understand that it's a little difficult for me to make predictions of what you're going to do... ;)

However, I can make a couple of comments. First, the RTT space battles (not ground) will be rather more slowly paced (as in Harpoon; some have also mentioned Shogun but I haven't seen it so I can't compare). That'll cut down on a little of the frantic watching.

Ships will be grouped and commanded in task forces; task forces are designed around concepts (which you can set), and then assigned to missions (either by you, or by the AI in command) before and during the battle. There is some complexity to what's allowed, but I can't go into details. You can also override orders during the battle, but it takes the task force commander some time to redirect his ships.

Can the AI handle the battles? The good ones can, the bad ones maybe not. You see, you have Leaders in those positions (Admiral, Task Force Commanders, Ship Captains) with varying levels of ability. If you get some yutz for an Admiral who obviously got there based on his family connections, you'll have to watch him like a hawk. If you get your own version of Alexander the Great, you may be able to let him loose and worry about other things. Leaders will come and go, and they're in all areas of the game, so your attention will doubtless shift as the game goes on. Anyhow, there's a lot of effort being put into making the ships react intelligently. In fact, that's what our first AI guy started out working on.

Watching and IFP: all of this is subject to playtest, so what I tell you now may not be true at release. As things stand now, you can watch battles if you so choose (you may or may not have the ability to "jump in" and command during the battle). The first such would be free, but after that they would start costing IFP. There are also after-battle reports from which you can gain information, so I don't know how many battles people will choose to watch. Some of this is a multiplayer pacing thing; if you watch every single battle, games will take longer, which depending on the players can be a Bad Thing. We're trying to keep the pacing up, so we'll adjust things as need be.

[Comrade Tribune]

Stormhound, what I hear is so much to my liking I am going to save my IFPs. I believe You guys at Quicksilver do Your job so well that, at this time, there is simply no need for Imperial Intervention . (Good for You, because my regime is rather repressive. :D :lol: :D )

[[LordLMP]]

So to simply Watch may cost IFPs? What about checking the colonies, to simply look through to see what they are building, etc...?

In SMAC/X and MOO2, i let the governor/colony build the hoot they want unless i need something specific, like some peticular building for that colony/base, units/ships, etc...

of course, that could be a simple overview like the colony menu/base list menu... but the thing in SMAX, don't need to look at the list or go inside the base to find out what they are building, tells you right under the name of the place. So i simply quickly do a overview of the map in SMAX to see what they are building... if they are building something i don't want, like mindworms for example...i do a simple Right click to pop a little menu and go change production then i tell what they should be building :p or just click on the field again to reset them into build things under that fielf (Explore, Discover, Build, Conquer).

Also, will there be an option to disable the IFP in single player in MOO3? atleast a cheat code for unlimited IFP? or do we have to Cheat/hack for it? :p

Will there be a Scenario editor? :)

-LMP

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by [LordLMP]
So to simply Watch may cost IFPs? What about checking the colonies, to simply look through to see what they are building, etc...?

I believe that just looking will cost IFP points.


Originally posted by [LordLMP]
Also, will there be an option to disable the IFP in single player in MOO3? atleast a cheat code for unlimited IFP? or do we have to Cheat/hack for it? :p

Will there be a Scenario editor? :)

-LMP

You will not be able to disable the IFP system. Also, there isn't a great need of a scenario editor, so I doubt there will be one.

[Stormhound]

No, it will not cost IFP just to review what your colonies are doing. Only to change what they're doing, and even then you've got the ability to give orders to groups of colonies at once.

You won't be able to disable IFP. Too much in the game relies on it. Likewise, unlimited IFP would break other parts of the game where you can put in multiple IFP to increase your chances of success.

A scenario editor would've been nice, but there's no time/budget for it.

[Master Marcus]

Thanks for the inputs, Stormhound. Just an additional question: Will there be an IFP category within the "custom race picks" ( or something like that ) where we can choose for a slower rate or higher rate ?

[Stormhound]

Actually, there WILL be a racial pick which affects this (but not only this; has something to do with the cohesion of your society if memory serves). Don't recall the details right off the top of my head, and I doubt it'll be cheap, but it's in there.

[[LordLMP]]

As for the need of a Scenario Editor, you may not need it Osweld, but i am sure, like me, people would like it.

Storm, if you people can't do a scenario editor, is it possible to have the game in a way easy for an independent to program their own Scenario Editor and distribute the Scenarios as saves?
Would there be any customization outside of the game? Like replace the animated Leaders/Emperors with pics? Create customize ship sets, etc? something like the rules.txt in Civ or alpha.txt in SMAC? custom build lists, etc? Atleast maybe leave 3d, animation, graphic, etc... files in standard formats like jpg, gif, odf, mp3, etc? Would definatly increase the lifespan of the game like customization did to Civ2, Total Annihilation, etc.... Don't have to create editors, scenario editor, etc... just maybe atleast leave the game "open" for independents to tweak the game and keep AI/programming secrets and other things in some confusing files within files, etc... it shouldn't be a big deal i would think.

sorry, just like to have the ability to customize things then just racial picks and ship designs. Would be nice to have a game like MOO3 to play around with like Civ2, Total Annihilation, Starcraft, Half-Life, Startrek: Armada and other games.

-LMP

...to create is a fabulous eXperience...

[ravagon]

Originally posted by [LordLMP]
Would be nice to have a game like MOO3 to play around with like Civ2, Total Annihilation, Starcraft, Half-Life, Startrek: Armada and other games.


I couldn't agree more!! You noticed, however that the editors for most of the above were 3rd-party editors, I take it?
Editting/modding of in-game files will almost certainly take place. Its just a question of whether or not the editting process is simple/timewise enough for everybody to do it (this would be a plus!) or so complex/time intensive that serious modifications will be restricted to far fewer players (this would be somewhat less of a plus).

On a personal note, I would also prefer gameplay options along the lines of being able to change/scale production, IFP's, research etc, for a particular game, akin to options in MP Civ2

[Stormhound]

The answer is "it depends".

Much of the game data is going to be in easily edited files. Costs, requirements, effects, that sort of stuff. You can mod that to your heart's content.

The artwork is another matter. While I don't pretend to be a graphic artist (or to understand the jargon), Rantz has said before that while doing custom art would be possible, it wouldn't be easy. I think in large part that's related to (a) the quality of the art, and (b) the steps they go through so that the art doesn't eat so much of the processor, like pre-rendering the ships for space combat.
Likewise, since my own programming background was mainframes, not PCs, I don't know how easy it'll be for someone to do a scenario editor.