Map/scenario editor

[Kumiorava]

So why don't you make one for us? http://apolyton.net/forums/smile.gif

[CapTVK]

Wouldn't developing a proper FreeCiv script language (that's well documented) with some test scenarios (like WW2 and Rome in the orginal Civ2) be a better step at this point?


Most scenario designers are not programmers but they become master artists and artisans with the right tools at hand. From what I've seen at the moment FreeCiv doesn't have those tools. If you want to know what those scenario makers can do check out the HS-Scenario League. After 3-4 years they have reached the very limit of what they can do with the Civ2 engine and its various releases. These guys even discuss HEX-editing the savegames to get the last drop of editing efforts!

I'm going to state a goal that should be aimed for if someone (or more) decides to develop scenario tools for FreeCiv : One should be able to design and play a FreeCiv version of RED FRONT with all the rules, sounds, graphics and scripts.

Tall order? perhaps...but we have to start somewhere

[sigra]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by CapTVK on 05-20-2000 06:01 PM</font>
Wouldn't developing a proper FreeCiv script language (that's well documented) with some test scenarios (like WW2 and Rome in the orginal Civ2) be a better step at this point?


Most scenario designers are not programmers but they become master artists and artisans with the right tools at hand. From what I've seen at the moment FreeCiv doesn't have those tools. If you want to know what those scenario makers can do check out the HS-Scenario League. After 3-4 years they have reached the very limit of what they can do with the Civ2 engine and its various releases. These guys even discuss HEX-editing the savegames to get the last drop of editing efforts!

I'm going to state a goal that should be aimed for if someone (or more) decides to develop scenario tools for FreeCiv : One should be able to design and play a FreeCiv version of RED FRONT with all the rules, sounds, graphics and scripts.

Tall order? perhaps...but we have to start somewhere
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Another kind of art in the future of Freeciv is the creating of custom AI-client scripts. This is at least as interesting as Scenario editing! This is an official goal of the freeciv team (http://www.freeciv.org/todo.html) and I really look forward to letting my AI compete against others AIs! Maybe I will try some genetic programming with it.

[Thue]

Well, there isn't one. But I think it would be relatively wasy to make one. Good place to start if you want to code freeciv.

Just
-Take 1 gtk client. Remove the parts you don't need. Add a few dialogs for chosing tile and unit type and change the map onclick event accordingly. You should make a new subdirectory under client/ for it.
-Move the code to save maps in the server to common/ to be available to the client, and it would be ready to use.
-Put in the oven until... oh wait...

I think it really is that easy, and it would be very practical.

[Caz]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>

Just
-Take 1 gtk client. Remove the parts you don't need. Add a few dialogs for chosing tile and unit type and change the map onclick event accordingly. You should make a new subdirectory under client/ for it.
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

That would mean separate upkeep work for gtk client and map editor http://apolyton.net/forums/mad.gif Better to keep it as part of client.

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>-Move the code to save maps in the server to common/ to be available to the client, and it would be ready to use.
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Ruleset parsing is also required, map generator would be nice too and...

Well, since freeciv uses both client and server, why our map editor should be worse http://apolyton.net/forums/wink.gif

I wanted to test this and it took about 5 minutes to create 'working' map editor. http://apolyton.net/forums/biggrin.gif It even allows upto 30 humans to edit map simultaneously. http://apolyton.net/forums/biggrin.gif

[Kumiorava]

LOL! http://apolyton.net/forums/biggrin.gif

Will you be developing this further, or was it just a wild experiment that will lead nowhere? http://apolyton.net/forums/biggrin.gif

[Thue]

Actually I already started. I cut a little down on the duplication by including object files from the client and server where possible.

If you want to see what I have got so far look at http://hjem.get2net.dk/thue_janus_kristensen/newworld.diff.bz2
(apply it and "autoconf && automake && make")

Actually it turned out that someone had made a map editor before, but it had to compile with 1.8.1 and was completely impossible to update. But bit of the code in my creation is stolen from it.

[Kumiorava]

Very intresting, but unfortunately I'm off my Linux box right now, so I can't give your diff a shot. http://apolyton.net/forums/frown.gif Could do you go through the trouble of geting us some screenshots maby?

[Thue]

There is not much to be seen on a hypothetical screenshots; a client with a popup tool panel with commands
-paint tile
-paint rectangle
-copy
-paste
-undo
These currently only work for terrain and specials (including things like irrigation)

Rulesets are loading via the ruleset.o file from the server. The savegame.o file is linked in, but not used yet (ie you cannot save what you made in this great editor http://apolyton.net/forums/biggrin.gif).

dummy functions have been made to be able to link the files in; much code like network code has been removed.
Unit and city code has not been removed, though it will need to be changed to work for a scenario editor (which is why I didn't think it was appropriate to make it part of the client)
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Thue (edited July 28, 2000).]</font>

[Caz]

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<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>
Will you be developing this further, or was it just a wild experiment that will lead nowhere?
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

It was just a wild experiment. Sadly, more I look at it, more I like it.

I can stop myself from coding it any further, I can. http://apolyton.net/forums/rolleyes.gif

Now if I just steal some code from thue...

[Caz]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>Actually it turned out that someone had made a map editor before, but it had to compile with 1.8.1 and was completely impossible to update.
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Yeah, I tried CivWorld about an year ago. It took whole night to make it even compile (just a couple of months after its maintaining was dropped!). That proved to me that client and map editor must have very close relationship.


<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Caz (edited July 28, 2000).]</font>

[Thue]

It now saves basic maps http://apolyton.net/forums/smile.gif. Loading maps should work shortly.

[Thue]

I plan to get the editor into CVS; *PUF* people will automatically keep it up to date when doing other changes.

I did take a look at all the possibilities before deciding on a stand alone editor. The result was that if I wanted to be able to change things like the city dialog I had to fork the code. (that goes for interfaces all over the client)

Please help me make this version instead of forking; it will be too much work for one person to do, and making two version will be wasted effort. We can set up a CVS server for it.

[Caz]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>people will automatically
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>
People are automation? http://apolyton.net/forums/smile.gif

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>The result was that if I wanted to be able to change things like the city dialog I had to fork the code. (that goes for interfaces all over the client)
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>
If you say so. I thought there's quite clean ways of doing it, but then again I have not considered it thoroughly (just got one crazy idea and tested it).

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>Please help me make this version instead of forking; it will be too much work for one person to do, and making two version will be wasted effort. We can set up a CVS server for it.
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>
Currently my freeciv time is spent on some rather big patches (and hopefully to actual playing soon again). Maybe when I have finished reqgen patch...

[Thue]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>people will automatically
People are automation? http://apolyton.net/forums/smile.gif
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>
At least it will always compile. That was the problem with civworld.

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>The result was that if I wanted to be able to change things like the city dialog I had to fork the code. (that goes for interfaces all over the client)
If you say so. I thought there's quite clean ways of doing it, but then again I have not considered it thoroughly (just got one crazy idea and tested it).
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>Yes, but the new interfaces will be of complexety comparable to the existing dialogs... At least when you include adding network code and server handling.
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Thue (edited July 29, 2000).]</font>

[Thue]

Actually I am not convinced that the seperate map editor way is the best; but both ways have disadvantages (and reliing on the server is ugly and bloated!), and I have made what I have work http://apolyton.net/forums/smile.gif