explain to me about modern TV (the tech that is, not the programs)

[lord of the mark]

We're not much of a TV family, but our 14 year old TV has finally gone on the blink, and we've decided we need a new one.


IIUC soon all broadast TV in the US will be digital. This means we need a digital TV, right?

It doesnt mean we need a HD one though, does it? Does SD mean standard def digital?

We dont have a console, and dont have any desire to get an HD dvd player. We havent gotten cable in the past, but might get some flavor of basic cable in the future.

I understand you want either 720 P (progressive scan) or 1080 I (interlaced)

Our old TV was 26 inches, I think. There are lots of ads for huge TVs, but I cant see us wanting that. The living room is small, and if we put it in there, we wouldnt be watching from far away. Id think maybe 32 inches, at most.

We definitely dont want a CRT. To conserve space, make easier to move, we want a flat panel (the flat panel PC monitor has worked out well) LCD preferred?

Of, and we dont want to spend alot. I cant imagine spending more than $800-900 for a TV. The $400-600
deals Im seeing look nice, though they usually involve off brands. Heck, Id spend less than $400 if we could get a decent flat panel for that. We havent yet had a family meeting on 26" vs 32" though.

[Asher]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
IIUC soon all broadast TV in the US will be digital. This means we need a digital TV, right?
It means you will need a digital terminal or receiver, you can use any TV you want with it.

It doesnt mean we need a HD one though, does it? Does SD mean standard def digital?
You do not need HD. SD means standard def, not necessarily digital or analog.

We dont have a console, and dont have any desire to get an HD dvd player. We havent gotten cable in the past, but might get some flavor of basic cable in the future.
You can get over-the-air TV (even HDTV) for free.

I understand you want either 720 P (progressive scan) or 1080 I (interlaced)
All LCDs are natively progressive. The important feature isn't 720p/1080i (I'm sure 100% of them support both as inputs), but the resolution. Unless you're going upwards of 40", 720p native is fine (1280x720). Most TVs in that range are some weird resolution, though.

We definitely dont want a CRT. To conserve space, make easier to move, we want a flat panel (the flat panel PC monitor has worked out well) LCD preferred?
For your desired size, there's no other choice.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Asher

[q]It means you will need a digital terminal or receiver, you can use any TV you want with it.

OK. Im assuming we get a TV that has all that, not a seperate monitor, receiver, etc.


You do not need HD. SD means standard def, not necessarily digital or analog.

OK.


You can get over-the-air TV (even HDTV) for free.

yes, i know that. What I meant was, we will use the TV mainly for non HD DVDs, and for over the air TV, which I know is often HD (and always free). Thats background to what kind of TV we want. Im inclined to not pay for HD, and am looking for confirmation, or disagreement.

[Verto]

A Zionist philistine :q:

[DanS]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
Im inclined to not pay for HD, and am looking for confirmation, or disagreement.

Mostly, unless you're going to be buying a very, very small flat screen, you're going to get a higher resolution display than SD as part of the package. For display devices, it's more of a gradient of SD > > > HD. Even many/most HD displays do not really display full HD resolution (1920 x 1080).

Good luck.

[-Jrabbit]

The transition to digital broadcast television in the US is mandated to occur no later than Feb. 17, 2009. The frequency bands have already been reallocated and the broadcast technology agreed upon.

Because you watch over-the-air local stations, LotM, you are among those most affected.

Your new TV purchase should be a set with an on-board digital tuner. If you buy a traditional analog set, you will need to add a set-top decoder box when the transition occurs. (These will likely cost $50 to $75, and the US govt will be offering two $40 coupons per household toward them; availability 010108.) People who subscribe to cable, satellite, etc, have no worries, as their providers will handle the technical issues for them.

Still, the smart thing to do when purchasing today is to get a TV with a digital tuner.

While HD is certainly not a necessity, broadcasters a quickly ramping up to do most of their production in HD with 5.1 sound. Hi-def sets are coming down in cost, but are still several levels above SDTV. Go out and take a look to see if the cost differential is worth it to you. My guess, based on your posts here, is that you'll be best served by waiting until your next purchase. But a lot of folks are blown away by HD and can't wait to have it.

There's no need to worry about playing HD content on an SD set. Downconversion is relatively trivial and should be transparent to the SD home viewer.

Here's a site with some basic details: http://www.dtvtransition.org/

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Verto
A Zionist philistine :q:

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?

[Verto]

You are Jewish. It then follows that you are a Zionist.
You refuse to recognize and embrace the beauty and art of HD. You are a philistine.

[-Jrabbit]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
What I meant was, we will use the TV mainly for non HD DVDs, and for over the air TV, which I know is often HD (and always free). Thats background to what kind of TV we want. Im inclined to not pay for HD, and am looking for confirmation, or disagreement.

This is very reminiscent of all the people who figured they wouldn't need:
--a cassette deck, since they were happy with vinyl discs
--a CD player, since they were happy with cassettes
--a digital music player, since they were happy with CDs and Walkmans
--a DVD player, since they were happy with VHS tapes.

We've been watching in the (fundamentally flawed) NTSC format forever. The last truly notable improvement in broadcast video was, um, color TV. That was about 1962 (The Flintones and The Jetsons) for home viewers.

HD is coming, and it will inevitably become omnipresent.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Verto
[q]You are Jewish. It then follows that you are a Zionist.
While thats not always the case, I am indeed a Zionist. That wasnt what inspired my response.

You refuse to recognize and embrace the beauty and art of HD. You are a philistine.

Ah, thats it. Perhaps you could discourse more fully on the art of HD? :)

[Asher]

Seeing is believing.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by -Jrabbit


This is very reminiscent of all the people who figured they wouldn't need:
--a cassette deck, since they were happy with vinyl discs
--a CD player, since they were happy with cassettes
--a digital music player, since they were happy with CDs and Walkmans
--a DVD player, since they were happy with VHS tapes.

We've been watching in the (fundamentally flawed) NTSC format forever. The last truly notable improvement in broadcast video was, um, color TV. That was about 1962 (The Flintones and The Jetsons) for home viewers.

HD is coming, and it will inevitably become omnipresent.

:)


1. I bought cassetes for my little tape recorder, before I had a stereo system. When I did have a stereo system, I also bought a tape deck, for my existing collection of tapes

2. We've never really gotten a proper CD player, since we sort of let our main audio system age and die. We got a clock-radio-CD player, but the CD player part broke. We finally got a "boom box" that plays CDs and tapes I am looking to get a more modern audio system, but its not high on the list.

3. We still dont have a digital music player, other than our PC's. POTM wants one, and its on our list.

4. We inherited my parents old VCR player. It broke, but we accumulated several VHS tapes anyway (personal ones made by friends, etc) We finally got a combo DVD/VCR player, for less than a DVD player cost a couple of years earlier.


And of course we recently bought two PCs, almost 10 years after buying our last one, for less than one PC with far worse specs would have cost just a few years ago.

And yeah, I owned my first color TV in 1991.

We've done ok being late adopters, skipping gens of technology, etc. Call us "semi-luddites" if you will.

I dont doubt we will get HD SOMEDAY.

[Verto]

Originally posted by Asher
Seeing is believing.

The Look and Sound of Perfect :b: ;)

[Verto]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
Call us "semi-luddites" if you will.



Not to mention penny-pinching, stingy, cheapskate, etc. ;)

[Asher]

This is very reminiscent of all the people who figured they wouldn't need:

Jewish people are very conservative. LOTM still won't give up his Boney M 8-tracks.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Verto


Not to mention penny-pinching, stingy, cheapskate, etc. ;)
Anti-Semite! :doitnow!:

[lord of the mark]

oh, and youre wrong. Nobody was ever happy with audio cassetes. Cause of their tendency to get physically messed up, besides sound quality issues. Vinyl didnt start to disappear till the CD. Cassetes were for the car, or for stuff you taped yourself, or to play in something small and portable. Thats one of the reasons the audio CD was such a big deal, it could replace BOTH the cassete AND the LP.

Kinda the way DVD replaced VHS, cause VCR tapes could get so physically messed up as well. And needed to be rewound.

HD only offers a better pic, not the other advantages.

[Asher]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
HD only offers a better pic, not the other advantages.
Better picture, better sound, more portability (digital), more options (download, video on demand, etc).

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Verto


Not to mention penny-pinching, stingy, cheapskate, etc. ;)

Frugal. Our family, that is. Actually plenty of Jews arent - we know a family that has purchased multiple consoles, an giant HD TV, etc.

Lets just say that thats not our top priority ;)

[Arrian]

My wife and I will be getting a new TV soon, so this thread helps me too :b: We currently have a normal 27" TV that has seen better days.

A friend here at work tells me a LCD rear-projection TV may be right for me.

We don't want to mount the TV on a wall. I have a nice big TV stand and I intend to use it. I'd like to spend $1500 or less.

Speak unto me, those who are wise in the ways of technology...

-Arrian

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Asher
This is very reminiscent of all the people who figured they wouldn't need:

Jewish people are very conservative. LOTM still won't give up his Boney M 8-tracks.


See what I mean? I managed to never own 8 track anything. Or quad sound. Or Betamax.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Asher

Better picture, better sound, more portability (digital), more options (download, video on demand, etc).

Better sound, ok.

More portability? Vs SD digital?

Ditto for DL, video on demand?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Arrian
My wife and I will be getting a new TV soon, so this thread helps me too :b: We currently have a normal 27" TV that has seen better days.

A friend here at work tells me a LCD rear-projection TV may be right for me.

We don't want to mount the TV on a wall. I have a nice big TV stand and I intend to use it. I'd like to spend $1500 or less.

Speak unto me, those who are wise in the ways of technology...

-Arrian

Rear projection...I am not a fan.

You can get bigger screens this way, but room lighting becomes an issue, and viewing angle is a huge issue also.

Better sound, ok.

More portability? Vs SD digital?

Ditto for DL, video on demand?
If you're upgrading to digital, you're upgrading to HD either now or later. Digital SD exists as a stopgap solution only for putting existing NTSC content in the digital space.

If you are comparing "HD" to media such as VHS, beta, DVD, etc it is to be considered digital media. The only thing that technically differentiates HD from SD is the rate of bits flowing.

[Verto]

Originally posted by Arrian
My wife and I will be getting a new TV soon, so this thread helps me too :b: We currently have a normal 27" TV that has seen better days.

A friend here at work tells me a LCD rear-projection TV may be right for me.

We don't want to mount the TV on a wall. I have a nice big TV stand and I intend to use it. I'd like to spend $1500 or less.

Speak unto me, those who are wise in the ways of technology...

-Arrian

Why bother with a rear projection?

[snoopy369]

A SD TV wouldn't play digital content on it well, from my understanding. In addition, any copy-protected digital content would require HDCP, which many/most SD sets don't have.

Right? Am I finally learning this stuff, Asher? ;)

[Verto]

Originally posted by snoopy369
A SD TV wouldn't play digital content on it well, from my understanding. In addition, any copy-protected digital content would require HDCP, which many/most SD sets don't have.

Right? Am I finally learning this stuff, Asher? ;)

HDCP applies to DVI/HDMI, AFAIK

[Arrian]

Originally posted by Verto


Why bother with a rear projection?

I'm not sure... she was just telling me about her TV, and based on her comments & the price, it sounded interesting. I haven't done any research yet. Then I saw this thread, and hoped I might get a bit of edjumacatin'. ;)

-Arrian

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Verto


HDCP applies to DVI/HDMI, AFAIK

Ok, now you guys have lost me. Please explain the last two posts.

[Verto]

Actually, reading up on it, I think HDCP even affects other connections (possibly):

HD DVD, Blu-ray Disc and DVD players (with HDMI or DVI connector) use HDCP to establish an encrypted digital connection. If the display device—or in the case of using a PC to decrypt and play back HD-DVD or Blu-ray media, the graphics card (hardware, drivers and playback software)—does not support HDCP, then a connection cannot be established. As a result, a black picture and/or error message will likely be displayed instead of the video content.
Content providers for HD-DVD and Blu-ray media can set an Image Constraint Token (ICT) flag that will only output full-resolution digital signals using a digital HDCP connection. If a HDCP enabled player is connected to a non-HDCP-enabled television set with a non-HDCP-compliant analog connection (VGA or Component), and the content is flagged, the player will output a downsampled 960x540 pixel signal. If using non-HDCP-compliant DVI connection (with HDMI to DVI cable), the user will not get any picture at all. Many older high-definition television sets currently in use are not HDCP-capable, and this would negate some of the key benefits of HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc for those consumers.

From Wiki

[Arrian]

Yeah, I don't like that whole viewing-at-an-angle thing. Hrm...

-Arrian

[Asher]

Originally posted by snoopy369
A SD TV wouldn't play digital content on it well, from my understanding. In addition, any copy-protected digital content would require HDCP, which many/most SD sets don't have.

Right? Am I finally learning this stuff, Asher? ;)
A SDTV would play digital stuff on it fine. HDCP will increasingly become an issue, though -- you will need a digital connection like HDMI or DVI with HDCP support to play future Bluray and HD DVD discs, and potentially digicable and satellite as well.

In my mind, you are not being "frugal" by buying an SDTV/EDTV today, you are being stupid. It's not too much more money to upgrade to an HDTV from that point, and it will last you far, far longer (and LCDs are way more reliable than CRTs).

[Arrian]

Originally posted by lord of the mark

Ok, now you guys have lost me. Please explain the last two posts.

Yay! :love:

I have no idea either.

-Arrian

[Verto]

Originally posted by Arrian


I'm not sure... she was just telling me about her TV, and based on her comments & the price, it sounded interesting. I haven't done any research yet. Then I saw this thread, and hoped I might get a bit of edjumacatin'. ;)

-Arrian

There is really no reason to go with a rear projection. Putting aside arguments regarding viewing angle, image, etc, those things are huge. For $1500USD, you can buy a great flat panel LCD.

[Asher]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
Ok, now you guys have lost me. Please explain the last two posts.
HDCP is an encrypted protocol for sending digital media over connections.

Right now, no HD DVD or Bluray media require HDCP protections, and I know of no digital cable or satellite boxes that require it either.

But starting in about 2011, a date most studios agreed upon, your TV and your media device (digital cable, HD DVD player, etc) will both need to support the HDCP protocol and both use a digital connection (HDMI, DVI).

Without HDCP support, you will get a significantly downgraded image, or none at all.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Asher

A SDTV would play digital stuff on it fine. HDCP will increasingly become an issue, though -- you will need a digital connection like HDMI or DVI with HDCP support to play future Bluray and HD DVD discs, and potentially digicable and satellite as well.

In my mind, you are not being "frugal" by buying an SDTV/EDTV today, you are being stupid. It's not too much more money to upgrade to an HDTV from that point, and it will last you far, far longer (and LCDs are way more reliable than CRTs).

Ive ruled out a CRT. I hoping never to buy a CRT anything again, if I can manage it. Damned things to big a pain to lug around.

Im thinking its still quite a big jump in price to HD from SD, but then last time I looked I didnt have the benefit of this tech info. I wonder if its a bigger difference at smaller sizes?

[Verto]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


Ok, now you guys have lost me. Please explain the last two posts.

HDMI is a cable that carries video and audio, all in one. DVI carries video.

[Arrian]

Originally posted by Verto


There is really no reason to go with a rear projection. Putting aside arguments regarding viewing angle, image, etc, those things are huge. For $1500USD, you can buy a great flat panel LCD.

Ok, sweet. :b:

-Arrian

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Asher

HDCP is an encrypted protocol for sending digital media over connections.

Right now, no HD DVD or Bluray media require HDCP protections, and I know of no digital cable or satellite boxes that require it either.

But starting in about 2011, a date most studios agreed upon, your TV and your media device (digital cable, HD DVD player, etc) will both need to support the HDCP protocol and both use a digital connection (HDMI, DVI).

Without HDCP support, you will get a significantly downgraded image, or none at all.

really???

You mean lets say I buy an SD TV. Come 2011, it wont play broadcast TV (or only a very downgraded image)? Or will it just be I need some kind of adapter thingie?

[Asher]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
really???

You mean lets say I buy an SD TV. Come 2011, it wont play broadcast TV (or only a very downgraded image)? Or will it just be I need some kind of adapter thingie?
It'll still show the SD TV resolution. The current implementations downgrade the image from HD to SD when HDCP isn't present.

But the future...who knows. This is one reason it's dumb to buy a regular SDTV... ;)

[lord of the mark]

"Many older high-definition television sets currently in use are not HDCP-capable, and this would negate some of the key benefits of HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc for those consumers."

well damn glad I didnt get one of those. Tech genius, I am.

[Verto]

Originally posted by Arrian


Ok, sweet. :b:

-Arrian

And LCDs come with a stand attached - you can set it down on your current TV stand, no problem. (From your previous post, I thought there was a little confusion about this.)

[Arrian]

So, anybody want to recommend any particular manufacturers (or warn me off)?

-Arrian

edit: thanks, Verto. I figured that was probably the case.

[Verto]

Originally posted by Arrian
So, anybody want to recommend any particular manufacturers (or warn me off)?

-Arrian

Well, I am satisfied with the Westinghouse I bought. The image quality is equal or superior to the other LCDs on sale, good set of inputs, all for a price that was hundreds of dollars lower than the other brands.

Asher has had his model longer, so he can tell you how it holds up over time, but I'm sure he'd still recommend the brand.

[DanS]

There are lots of reasons to go with rear projection, such as price per square inch of screen. That said, I expect the prices of LCD flat panels to continue to plummet over the next year as Samsung and others introduce a new generation of LCD manufacturing tools. The price per square inch equation might be firmly to LCD flat panel's benefit soon.

Flat panel LCD screens are really good purchases, and are becoming more attractive as we speak.

[Asher]

LOTM: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7682536&type=product&productCategoryId=pcmcat95100050021&id=1134703182075

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7975621&type=product&productCategoryId=pcmcat95100050015&id=1153998665554

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Asher
If you're upgrading to digital, you're upgrading to HD either now or later. Digital SD exists as a stopgap solution only for putting existing NTSC content in the digital space.

If you are comparing "HD" to media such as VHS, beta, DVD, etc it is to be considered digital media. The only thing that technically differentiates HD from SD is the rate of bits flowing.

Again, youre losing me.

Im just a guy walking into a store to buy a Tee Vee. I got a VCR/DVD player at home, i watch broadcast Tee Vee, and mebbe I will get cable, but probably not.

The HD Tee Vees are a couple of hundred bucks more than SD Tee Vees, IIRC. Which for the 26 or 32" models, is like 50% more in price. So the cost of HD is bucks. Whats the benefit? Incrementally, to me, versus the other option im contemplating. Better pic and sound = check. Option to get HD DVDs at some point. Check. What else?

[Asher]

More random models:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16889179002
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16889112006
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16889253072

[Verto]

And as previously mentioned, when looking for a TV, check for resolution (among other things). For example, at Best Buy.com I see the following:

A Hewlett-Packard 42'' LCD for 1200 bucks, but a resolution of 1024 x 768.

Compare that to the Westinghouse 42'' I bought for about the same price, but with a resolution of 1920 x 1080 Resolution, 1080p.

[DanS]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
Again, youre losing me.

Im just a guy walking into a store to buy a Tee Vee. I got a VCR/DVD player at home, i watch broadcast Tee Vee, and mebbe I will get cable, but probably not.

The HD Tee Vees are a couple of hundred bucks more than SD Tee Vees, IIRC. Which for the 26 or 32" models, is like 50% more in price. So the cost of HD is bucks. Whats the benefit? Incrementally, to me, versus the other option im contemplating. Better pic and sound = check. Option to get HD DVDs at some point. Check. What else?

Just wait the half year until HD is no more expensive than SD. Soon, you won't even be able to buy SD.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Asher
LOTM: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7682536&type=product&productCategoryId=pcmcat95100050021&id=1134703182075

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7975621&type=product&productCategoryId=pcmcat95100050015&id=1153998665554

good sales. Still a tad more than Id like to pay - but its going to be hard making comparison till the family and I have settled on the 26" vs 32" question.

What do you think of Insignia? Good manu?

[Asher]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
Incrementally, to me, versus the other option im contemplating. Better pic and sound = check. Option to get HD DVDs at some point. Check. What else?
Use as a computer monitor / gaming monitor? :)

[Arrian]

Heh, I was just wondering if newegg would have them... thanks, Asher.

Minor threadjack attempt: anybody have a recommendation on a fairly inexpensive and (this is the important part) easy to use digital camera? It's for my mom. She makes me look like a tech wizard. Simple & easy to use is FAR more important than megapixels. Hell, anything I buy nowadays will at least match our camera (3.1), so that's not an issue.

-Arrian

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by DanS


Just wait the half year until HD is no more expensive than SD. Soon, you won't even be able to buy SD.

Really?

IIUC there are still analog sets for sale. There are certainly still CRT sets for sale.

Anyways, we are currently completely TV less, and the family may not be willing to wait 6 months.

[Arrian]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16889234002

Is that basically the one you have, Verto?

-Arrian

[Asher]

Originally posted by Arrian
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16889234002

Is that basically the one you have, Verto?

-Arrian
That's the exact one Verto and I both have. It's gorgeous.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Asher

Use as a computer monitor / gaming monitor? :)

Nah, of our three PCs, one has a nice LCD monitor already. The second is a laptop. The third is the ancient dino in the basement.

Only one it would make any sense on would be the new desktop. Currently we are keeping that in a little side room/office, whereas the Tee Vee will be in either the Living room or the MBR, neither of which we want to have the PC. And besides, I would need to spend a couple of hundred bucks on a graphics card to make it worthwhile to hook up an HD TV to the PC ;)

Console? :D Not high on our list. And if we did get one, it would probably be either a PS2 or a Wii, neither of which would really justify HD, would they?;)

Of course in a couple of years it should be possible to pick up a 360 for about $100.

[Arrian]

Looks nice, and is squarely within the price range. Excellent. Thanks much.

-Arrian

[Asher]

Originally posted by Arrian
Looks nice, and is squarely within the price range. Excellent. Thanks much.

-Arrian
It's been out for over a year now so there's probably going to be a new model soon.

[Verto]

Originally posted by Asher

That's the exact one Verto and I both have. It's gorgeous.

I told a friend I'd bought an HDTV, and he asked what brand.

"It's a Westinghouse."

"A what?"

"Westinghouse."

"...Man, you didn't buy it from Wal-Mart did you?"

"F*cker! Get your ass over here and tell me this came from Wal-Mart."


When people* think electronics, when they think HDTV, they think Sony - and so they pay Sony prices. People assume that if you aren't spending 2000-5000$ on an HDTV, then you are getting junk. This is not true.


*generally speaking

[DanS]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
Really?

IIUC there are still analog sets for sale. There are certainly still CRT sets for sale.

Anyways, we are currently completely TV less, and the family may not be willing to wait 6 months.

It may take longer than that. Flat panel LCD prices are declining about 35% per annum, so it can't be long before the older technologies are priced out of the market.

[Verto]

Originally posted by Asher

It's been out for over a year now so there's probably going to be a new model soon.

Yeah, actually, I was just about to mention this. Mine was clearance at Best Buy, so expect a new and improved model very soon. :)

[Arrian]

Originally posted by Asher

It's been out for over a year now so there's probably going to be a new model soon.

So hopefully this model with drop in price? :cute:

I won't be buying for another month or so...

-Arrian

[Asher]

Originally posted by Arrian


So hopefully this model with drop in price? :cute:

I won't be buying for another month or so...

-Arrian
Believe me, this model has dropped in price. When it launched its MSRP was $2300.

[lord of the mark]

oh, by the way tech silliness.

So we waited a long time to get a DVD player. So like a couple of years ago we had NO DVD player.

So we buy one, the aforesaid, DVD-VCR combo.

A friend buys POTM a tiny little portable DVD player (the kind with a tiny screen) for her birthday.

Both of our new PCs play DVDs (cause like, that was already almost standard a year ago)

So now we own FOUR machines that play DVDs.

[Verto]

That one has already dropped in price. Now, whether another drop will take place before places are completely sold out...I dunno. Like I said, I picked up the very last one at my local Best Buy.

[Arrian]

Well, I'll check out BestBuy and other stores nearby (newegg has a good price, but of course $100 for delivery) and see if I can catch a clearance deal.

-Arrian

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by DanS


It may take longer than that. Flat panel LCD prices are declining about 35% per annum, so it can't be long before the older technologies are priced out of the market.

yeah but there are SD flat panel LCD sets.

[Asher]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
So now we own FOUR machines that play DVDs.
Heh...in my tiny 1 bedroom apartment I have the following devices to play DVDs:

1) Xbox 360
2) Xbox 360 HD DVD addon
3) PS2
4) PS3
5) My PC
6) The SO's PC
7) My laptop
8) (starting Thursday) The SO's laptop

[Verto]

Do be aware that most of those fancy HDTVs look like complete sh1t. Some, this is because of the TV itself. For most, I would say it has to due with what the source is. For most, this is a DVD player at best. The other ones remind of me a VCR :)

I noticed Sony TVs were hooked up to Blu-Ray (quite nice). Whether this is because Sony mandates that their HDTVs are connected to Blu-Ray, or if Best Buy is intentionally making their most expensive TVs look the best, I dunno. But it is something to keep in mind.

[Verto]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


yeah but there are SD flat panel LCD sets.

What a waste.

[Asher]

Best Buy (and in Canada, Future Shop) actually intentionally miscalibrate the cheaper sets like the Westy to make the much more expensive Sony's look better.

[DanS]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
yeah but there are SD flat panel LCD sets.

I wonder how long those will be sold.

The SD flat panels probably use older technology. Use more electricity, etc. Not a huge point in HD's favor, but point being that up-front cost differentials aren't necessarily the only factor with regard to cost.

[Asher]

Originally posted by DanS


I wonder how long those will be sold.

The SD flat panels probably use older technology. Use more electricity, etc. Not a huge point in HD's favor, but point being that up-front cost differentials aren't necessarily the only factor with regard to cost.
They typically also have horribly slow refresh rates, bad brightness, and bad contrast.

[lord of the mark]

somehow it always seems in showrooms, theyre either playing sports, or some gloriusly beautiful nature show.

Its never, you, know, grainy images of the VA tech shooter. Or a congressman making a speech, or whatever.

I mean fairly good % of the TV we watch isnt going to look ANY better on HD, the nature of the world being what it is:(

[Verto]

Originally posted by Asher
Best Buy (and in Canada, Future Shop) actually intentionally miscalibrate the cheaper sets like the Westy to make the much more expensive Sony's look better.

Yeah, and I can understand the very short-term thinking behind it, but I think they are doing more harm than good.

"I saw in your ad you have HD!!TVs for only 999!"

"Yeah, here it is."

[Insert HDTV hooked up to VCR playing VHS version of Grease, recorded off TV]

"Wait, THIS is HD?"

"Yeah, but over here is our Sony..."

[Customer has already left store]

[Asher]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
I mean fairly good % of the TV we watch isnt going to look ANY better on HD, the nature of the world being what it is:(
You haven't lived until you've seen "Planet Earth" in HD.

I'd imagine you'd love most of the stuff on DiscoveryHD...

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by DanS


I wonder how long those will be sold.

The SD flat panels probably use older technology. Use more electricity, etc. Not a huge point in HD's favor, but point being that up-front cost differentials aren't necessarily the only factor with regard to cost.

SD flat panels use more electricity than HD flat panels? Ive never heard that before.

[Dis]

I just realized I haven't bought a regular living room tv in almost 10 years. :lol:. I did buy a small one for my bedroom. But I never use that anymore.

tv just bores me now days. I'd rather be on the computer. TV is just something to do when I have company over. I often just talk over the programs anyways. It's just background noise.

Even the DVD's I bought, I almost never watch. What a waste of money.

I'm starting to realize how backwards I'm getting on technology. It scares me. I wasn't like this when I was younger. Though I was a bit slow in CD technology. I didn't buy one until 1992.

My stereo reciever is pretty much broken. Though I can recieve broadcast stations (poorly- as I have a crappy antennae).

I do have a DVD player I bought about 4 or 5 years ago. But I hardly watch them as mentioned before.

I mainly use my comuter for everything. I'm a computerholic. Even though my stereo is worthless, I have no desire to get a new one. My computer can do it, that's why I spent over $200 to get decent speakers for my comp. My tv is a used one I got for free- 25 inches- SD. I have no desire to get a new one. I almost never watch it.

[Asher]

Even the DVD's I bought, I almost never watch. What a waste of money.

netflix!
Seriously.

There's tons of great TV shows over the years I'm sure you've missed. Pay a flat low fee and get TV series shipped to you on DVD, or tons of DVD movies...

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Asher

You haven't lived until you've seen "Planet Earth" in HD.

I'd imagine you'd love most of the stuff on DiscoveryHD...

Mebbe. But that gets into the whole question of whether cable makes sense for us in terms of how much we have time to watch, what plans are available at what monthly fees, etc.

[DanS]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
SD flat panels use more electricity than HD flat panels? Ive never heard that before.

I would just assume so, considering that they probably use older technology for the SD. Check the wattage in the specs.

The differential in watts used is much bigger between CRT and LCD, of course. That differential is more along the lines of $35 per year of continuous usage. Again, not a ton. But definitely a consideration for the penny-pinching consumer.

[Verto]

Originally posted by Dis
I just realized I haven't bought a regular living room tv in almost 10 years. :lol:. I did buy a small one for my bedroom. But I never use that anymore.

tv just bores me now days. I'd rather be on the computer. TV is just something to do when I have company over. I often just talk over the programs anyways. It's just background noise.

Even the DVD's I bought, I almost never watch. What a waste of money.

I'm starting to realize how backwards I'm getting on technology. It scares me. I wasn't like this when I was younger. Though I was a bit slow in CD technology. I didn't buy one until 1992.

My stereo reciever is pretty much broken. Though I can recieve broadcast stations (poorly- as I have a crappy antennae).

I do have a DVD player I bought about 4 or 5 years ago. But I hardly watch them as mentioned before.

I mainly use my comuter for everything. I'm a computerholic. Even though my stereo is worthless, I have no desire to get a new one. My computer can do it, that's why I spent over $200 to get decent speakers for my comp. My tv is a used one I got for free- 25 inches- SD. I have no desire to get a new one. I almost never watch it.

Hook your PC up to a nice HD monitor, you get the best of both worlds. Play games, watch movies, etc.

[Asher]

I'm a huge zip.ca whore (Canada's netflix). I've got over 200 titles on my "ziplist" for them to send me now.

Viewed about 200 since I started in September.

http://www.zip.tv/Community/viewProfile.aspx?profileid=7917

:b:

[Verto]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


Mebbe. But that gets into the whole question of whether cable makes sense for us in terms of how much we have time to watch, what plans are available at what monthly fees, etc.

I subscribed to DISH just recently.

Top 100 Programming (w/ local channels in HD)
DishHD
Showtime/HBO
HD Receiver/DVR

All for about 50-60 bucks a month.

I don't have time to watch TV shows when they air at their scheduled time, so the DVR will be a godsend :b: I get to catch up on Rome, The Office, Heroes, Sopranos, Dexter...the list goes on and on - all without having my life dictated by the TV schedule.

[Verto]

Originally posted by Asher
I'm a huge zip.ca whore (Canada's netflix). I've got over 200 titles on my "ziplist" for them to send me now.

Viewed about 200 since I started in September.

http://www.zip.tv/Community/viewProfile.aspx?profileid=7917

:b:

Star Trek VI :b:

Captain Kirk in HD :b: I anxiously await the day.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Dis
I just realized I haven't bought a regular living room tv in almost 10 years. :lol:. I did buy a small one for my bedroom. But I never use that anymore.

tv just bores me now days. I'd rather be on the computer. TV is just something to do when I have company over. I often just talk over the programs anyways. It's just background noise.


Yup, but QOTM was bothered that we didnt have a TV to watch the news coverage of the VA tech shooting. Normally Id say watch on the net, but we're in a high speed hiccup, till our FIOS is setup (see, we're not completely luddites :) )

And its not the same on the PC anyway. Though maybe it will be better with FIOS? We definitely must have a TV before the 2008 olympics, and probably before the primary season. And it would be nice to have one before the baseball playoffs.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Verto
Star Trek VI :b:

Captain Kirk in HD :b: I anxiously await the day.
You haven't heard?

ST: TOS is on XBLM in HD.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by DanS


I would just assume so, considering that they probably use older technology for the SD. Check the wattage in the specs.

The differential in watts used is much bigger between CRT and LCD, of course. That differential is more along the lines of $35 per year of continuous usage. Again, not a ton. But definitely a consideration for the penny-pinching consumer.

yeah, like I said, Ive completely moved on from CRTs.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Verto


I subscribed to DISH just recently.

Top 100 Programming (w/ local channels in HD)
DishHD
Showtime/HBO
HD Receiver/DVR

All for about 50-60 bucks a month.

I don't have time to watch TV shows when they air at their scheduled time, so the DVR will be a godsend :b: I get to catch up on Rome, The Office, Heroes, Sopranos, Dexter...the list goes on and on - all without having my life dictated by the TV schedule.


I.am.not.spending.$50.bucks.a.month.on. TV

FIOS is going to be our big monthly media/electronics expenditure.

[Asher]

Consider FiOS for TV?

[Verto]

Originally posted by Asher

You haven't heard?

ST: TOS is on XBLM in HD.

Yes, I almost bought an episode the other day, just to see what it is like, but I'm just not going for the XBL Marketplace. I'll hold off for the feature films to come out on HD-DVD (Or is the company that controls ST allied with Blu-Ray?). And it shouldn't be long til the remastered HD TOS shows up on TV, for free.

[Verto]

Originally posted by Asher
Consider FiOS for TV?

I would've killed for VerizonFIOS to be available at my apt. complex :mad:

And what makes it worse, they began adding FIOS to my previous apt. complex the last month of my lease there. :mad:

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Asher
Consider FiOS for TV?

yeah, we're going to look at that. Again, not the top priority.

I just bought a gig of RAM to get POTMs laptop performing nicely despite the XP bloatware on it, and we need a new TV, and we're still talking about an MP3 player for POTM, and we're making the jump to FIOS internet, so Im not real eager for MORE electronics expenditures anytime soon.

i mean the hell would we look closely at cable plans when we dont have a friggin Tee Vee?

[Verto]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


Yup, but QOTM was bothered that we didnt have a TV to watch the news coverage of the VA tech shooting. Normally Id say watch on the net, but we're in a high speed hiccup, till our FIOS is setup (see, we're not completely luddites :) )

And its not the same on the PC anyway. Though maybe it will be better with FIOS? We definitely must have a TV before the 2008 olympics, and probably before the primary season. And it would be nice to have one before the baseball playoffs.

Olympics :q: Not even HD can make that garbage worth watching.

[Asher]

I really can't imagine living that kind of lifestyle where you agonize over simple purchase decisions for months.

Buy it and move on, make it work. Life's worth enjoying.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Asher
I really can't imagine living that kind of lifestyle where you agonize over simple purchase decisions for months.

Buy it and move on, make it work. Life's worth enjoying.

I enjoy life. Theres more to life than electronics ;)

And I dont really agonize, for me this is also about an interesting convo where I learn about technology. If Id just dropped $2000 on the latest and greatest I wouldnt learn nearly as much.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Asher
I really can't imagine living that kind of lifestyle where you agonize over simple purchase decisions for months.

Buy it and move on, make it work. Life's worth enjoying.

someday, Asher, your partner is going to come home, and announce that you have a little one on the way. And that your partner is going to leave the workforce for years to raise it. ;) And that you are going to have to pay for braces, summer camps, college funds, etc, etc, etc.

[Asher]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
someday, Asher, your partner is going to come home, and announce that you have a little one on the way. And that your partner is going to leave the workforce for years to raise it. ;) And that you are going to have to pay for braces, summer camps, college funds, etc, etc, etc.

And this is why you avoid females. :doitnow!:

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by Arrian
My wife and I will be getting a new TV soon, so this thread helps me too :b: We currently have a normal 27" TV that has seen better days.

A friend here at work tells me a LCD rear-projection TV may be right for me.

We don't want to mount the TV on a wall. I have a nice big TV stand and I intend to use it. I'd like to spend $1500 or less.

Speak unto me, those who are wise in the ways of technology...

-Arrian

LCD RP isn't great. If you don't mind bumping up your budget to $1,700 (plus $30 or so for DVE - calibration disc), take a look at this (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000N50RLO/ref=ord_cart_shr/104-7803697-9127905?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&v=glance). It's the 2007 model, and uses an LED lamp. Once you disable all the BS digital picture "enhancements," set the gamma mode to 0, and run the calibration DVD, you'll have a stunning picture.

But be sure to use AVSForum to research whatever model you choose to buy before buying it. Head over to Best Buy to see what it looks like in real life, then buy it off Amazon (with free shipping) for much cheaper.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Asher


And this is why you avoid females. :doitnow!:

No, this is why we should end all barriers to gay adoption :)

[DanS]

The biggest things to watch on expenditures are monthly expenditures. Not that they should be ruled out, but I would be much more comfortable spending a little more on the TV set than I would on getting cable.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by DanS
The biggest things to watch on expenditures are monthly expenditures. Not that they should be ruled out, but I would be much more comfortable spending a little more on the TV set than I would on getting cable.

agreed

[DanS]

By the way, it would be great to have FIOS. That's a monthly expense that I would jump for. Won't be long before you can stream the TV programs for free over FIOS (Joost, or whatever).

They haven't started offering it in the city yet.

[Arrian]

Hmm, I may have to revisit our cable situaiton. We're paying ~$90/month for ditigal cable.

-Arrian

[Verto]

Originally posted by LordShiva


LCD RP isn't great. If you don't mind bumping up your budget to $1,700 (plus $30 or so for DVE - calibration disc), take a look at this (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000N50RLO/ref=ord_cart_shr/104-7803697-9127905?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&v=glance). It's the 2007 model, and uses an LED lamp. Once you disable all the BS digital picture "enhancements," set the gamma mode to 0, and run the calibration DVD, you'll have a stunning picture.

But be sure to use AVSForum to research whatever model you choose to buy before buying it. Head over to Best Buy to see what it looks like in real life, then buy it off Amazon (with free shipping) for much cheaper.

On a side note, those calibration discs are available on Netflix. (DVE, Avia, etc)

Also, you can use the THX Optimizer found on DVDs w/ THX - I can't attest to how the diff. products compare.

[Arrian]

Can you explain, in brief, why I need a calibration disk? Also, if I were to buy the Westinghouse that you guys have, would I need such a disk?

-Arrian

[LordShiva]

Yeah, I pay $130-140 for cable + internet from Comcast (HD Digital Platinum - HBO, Showtime, Starz, HD DVR, plus taxes and fees :mad: ). I may have to look into DISH (I live in an apartment... maybe my windows don't face the right way).

FIOS needs to come to DC :doitnow!:

[Verto]

Originally posted by Arrian
Can you explain, in brief, why I need a calibration disk? Also, if I were to buy the Westinghouse that you guys have, would I need such a disk?

-Arrian

It's to help you find the right balance between brightness/contrast, etc, without trying to eyeball it.

I did a little bit of tweaking when I got my TV, although I thought the default settings weren't bad to begin with. I ran the THX Optimizer, and made a few changes from there. Seems to be pretty good, although I'm interested in running these other DVDs out of curiosity.

Of course, I'm partially color blind, so what looks good to me may look off to other people. Not that I care, since it's MY TV. :)

[Arrian]

But, it's Comcastic!

:vomit:

I have Comcast too.

-Arrian

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by Arrian
Can you explain, in brief, why I need a calibration disk? Also, if I were to buy the Westinghouse that you guys have, would I need such a disk?

-Arrian

I'm not sure about LCDs, but DLP manufactures like to screw up the image settings before shipping them out. They put them in "torch" mode to compensate for their reputation in the old days of not getting bright enough (which ends up hurting your eyes and making the image look ugly), and turn the contrast way up. And I think all manufacturers like to turn sharpness way up, even though it should pretty much always be set at zero.

I've used all of the major calibration discs, and DVE and GetGray are the best, IMO.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Verto
On a side note, those calibration discs are available on Netflix. (DVE, Avia, etc)
HD DVD and DVDs use different colourspaces -- make sure you calibrate properly with this in mind...

[Asher]

The new Westy models:

The 1080p sets in 42", 47" and 52-inch sizes (The TX-42F430S, $1,599; TX-47F430S MSRP $1,799; TX-52F480S September 2007, MSRP TBD) are what we're most interested in. The TVs have 4 HDMI ports, composite, component, VGA, and ATSC tuners. The smaller ones have 8ms response rates, but the promised 52-incher boasts 5ms, plus dynamic scene-to-scene backlighting. And the source-detection will automatically switch to active signals.

[Arrian]

I found the older one you have online for slightly under $1200 (free shipping). Do you think it's likely that that model will still be available in ~7 weeks?

I'd rather order it and have it sent to the new house, but on the other hand I don't want to lose it and find myself spending ~$1500 instead.

-Arrian

[Asher]

I don't know if it'll still be available. I reckon they're ceased production to switch to the new model...

[Nostromo]

Lord of the mark, for reviews, tips and information check out the AVS forums. If you're interested in a topic or are interested in a particular model, there's a good chance there's a thread about it somewhere.

http://www.avsforum.com/

[lord of the mark]

I was in Best Buy the other day, and the prices for modest sized (27 or 32 inch) HDTVs were actually reasonable ($500 to $600 for the lesser brands), and there were no SD LCDs for sale, so Im thinking we will go HD. I need to get POTM and QOTM into the store with me to get a decision on 32" vs 27".

[Asher]

What kind of man are you?

NEVER take women with you to buy electronics.

[LordShiva]

Decide on the model in-store, but then buy it from somewhere cheaper (Costco, Amazon, TVAuthority with PriceMatch, etc.).

[-Jrabbit]

Originally posted by Asher
What kind of man are you?

NEVER take women with you to buy electronics.

He is a FAMILY man. He knows the importance of letting the women believe they had input into the process.

[Asher]

Originally posted by -Jrabbit
He is a FAMILY man. He knows the importance of letting the women believe they had input into the process.
Nonsense!

When my dad bought his HDTV, the only reason my mom found out about it was when the credit card fraud people called and asked about the $6000 purchase. :doitnow!:

[Kuciwalker]

:lol:

[-Jrabbit]

Ah, advice on marital relationships from the gay guy...

[Asher]

If you're the one making the majority of the money, you have a right to spend some as you see fit.

If your wife doesn't permit that, you have an unhealthy relationship.

[-Jrabbit]

Well, duh. But that line logically falls considerably short of credit card fraud alerts. You obviously have no clue how a healthy life partnership works.

[Asher]

Originally posted by -Jrabbit
You obviously have no clue how a healthy life partnership works.
Ming, if you don't ban him, you're saying it's okay to say things like this.

Well, duh. But that line logically falls considerably short of credit card fraud alerts.
Well, they've been happily married over 30 years. Maybe you know more, or maybe you're helplessly whipped.

[-Jrabbit]

Ming can ban me if he sees fit; I certainly don't care.

My statement is an honest evaluation based on your flippant criticism of LotM for "allowing" his wife and daughter to go to Best Buy with him. If you consider that a personal attack, you're being a bit oversensitive. Especially considering the flak you fling around here.

Nice job slipping in the "maybe" while suggesting I'm "helplessly whipped" btw.

But hey, we're getting off topic. Let's get back to HDTV, a subect on which I actually respect your opinion.

[Asher]

My statement is an honest evaluation based on your flippant criticism of LotM for "allowing" his wife and daughter to go to Best Buy with him.

It's a clear man-rule. You do not take women-folk with you to the electronics store or the home improvement store. I'm surprised you don't know it.

[-Jrabbit]

"Women-folk"?? What is this, Little House On The Prairie? :lol:

[Lord Avalon]

A woman should not come between a man and his HDTV! *


Man Law :doitnow!:



*unless they're watching porn :naughty:

[Verto]

I just discovered that Digital Video Essentials came out on HD-DVD on April 24th. It currently has problems with the Xbox 360 HD-DVD drive, although these will be fixed with the Spring Dashboard update in the next week or so. I'll probably order it off Amazon in the next week or so.

[Asher]

Order it? Just netflix it.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by -Jrabbit
"Women-folk"?? What is this, Little House On The Prairie? :lol:

More like "Little Troll from the Prairie Provinces" ;)

[Asher]

Little? :mad:

[Verto]

Originally posted by Asher
Order it? Just netflix it.

I considered that. However,

1.) They don't have it yet (I filled out a movie request form)
2.) I wouldn't get the color filters, which may or may not be important to the tests
3.) It's only 20 bucks or so. This way I have it on hand, for myself and others to use.

[DanS]

Yes, the filters are important.

[Arrian]

Asher, Verto...

I've researched the Westinghouse model you guys have and I wanted to ask you about some of the negatives I've seen mentioned:

1) A bit too much green color emphasis, without adequate controls to fix it.

2) SD input looks (particularly) crappy. Allegedly due to "ineffective video-noise reduction and generally poor deinterlacing performance."

3) Terrible costumer service @ Westinghouse.

I also saw a lot of complaining about the remote control, but I don't really care.

Have you guys run into any of this stuff?

-Arrian

[Asher]

1) Nope (I hope you're not taking that from the PCMag review, which is trash)
2) SD inputs look crappy on all HD sets. It's the nature of the beast. I don't have any experience with the Westy deinterlacer because all of my content is upscaled before it's sent to the screen. From what I heard, the Westy deinterlacer was supposed to be very good. Specifically, "Genesis Display Perfection" is what the Westy has and is supposed to be quite good, and it has a Faroudja deinterlacer. Several AV review sites call GDP the "industry's best"

3) I've heard this to, but never had to call them

[Nostromo]

nm

[Asher]

Originally posted by nostromo
You get what you pay for
I do not think this is true. The Westy has nearly identical components to TVs worth thousands more.

The only genuinely cheap part that doesn't work very well is the remote, which most people do not use due to universal remotes.

[Arrian]

Asher,

Yeah, I think it was that review. I didn't see that in other reviews, IIRC. Possibly just a bad review?

One thing I'm seeing a lot in user reviews is some sort of power issue. Do you know anything about that?

-Arrian

[Asher]

Originally posted by Arrian
Asher,

Yeah, I think it was that review. I didn't see that in other reviews, IIRC. Possibly just a bad review?
There's options on what colour "warmth" you want...one of them adds a greenish hue to the content. I think the general consensus was the reviewer had that turned on. :)

One thing I'm seeing a lot in user reviews is some sort of power issue. Do you know anything about that?

-Arrian
I think you're referring to the "lockup issue". Some users say they can't turn on the TV at all sometimes and need to unplug it and plug it in to resolve the issue.

I've never experienced it, and I've used my TV and turned it on/off quite a lot. I think it only affected the initial models.

[Arrian]

Yes, the lockup thing. That generated a pretty scary customer "service" (or rather lack thereof) story.

One other thing I saw in the user reviews was something about old/outdated firmware. Is that another thing that might've only been a problem with the early models?

-Arrian

[Verto]

Originally posted by Arrian
Asher, Verto...

I've researched the Westinghouse model you guys have and I wanted to ask you about some of the negatives I've seen mentioned:

1) A bit too much green color emphasis, without adequate controls to fix it.

2) SD input looks (particularly) crappy. Allegedly due to "ineffective video-noise reduction and generally poor deinterlacing performance."

3) Terrible costumer service @ Westinghouse.

I also saw a lot of complaining about the remote control, but I don't really care.

Have you guys run into any of this stuff?

-Arrian

1.) I haven't noticed this. Like Asher says, probably due to the settings used by the reviewer.

2.) I don't have any experience with this.

3.) I've never had to call them, so I couldn't say one way or the other.

I do have problems with the remote, more than others, but like I've said before, this might be my unit (open-box, etc). I actually figured out the most consistent way to get the remote to work is to point it AWAY from the TV, at my body. Still no luck getting the Xbox 360 Remote to work.

[Arrian]

Thanks for the answers, guys.

-Arrian